Miracle Control

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Originally Posted by Echohots

I play a very "stock list" of predictless, nonlegend, miracles. My meta is full of bug decks (predict seems good here), death and taxes (better matchup imo postboard), and combo (mainly snt). What sideboard cards do you find most pivotal in this meta? I was thinking of playing sulfur elementals, but I have trouble fitting the 2 into a "normal" stock miracles board. Suggestions?

I've been flirting with landstill, meanwhile, for my meta but the dnt matchup is horrible.

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Sulfur Elemental is a bit narrow. Yes it can kill DnT creatures, but it cannot kill that problematic one: Prelate. It's borderline useless against combo like SnT. It can go after opponent's Lili or Jace, but not that great.

The card that can deal with all the MUs, is Venser. Venser bounces the equipment/Prelate and then block to kill SFM or anything that matters. When your opponent SnT, you now can Venser in and bounce whatever your opponent put in. Sure your opponent might be able to draw 7, but at least you are not spending Mana, your Mana can be spent on fighting over stack or something else. Against BUG decks, Venser is great for the slower, Shardless BUG version, bounce Lili or a Vision is always nice, you might even get to bounce needle/null rod. It might be too slow for the BUG tempo, depending on which version.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

Sulfur Elemental is a bit narrow. Yes it can kill DnT creatures, but it cannot kill that problematic one: Prelate. It's borderline useless against combo like SnT. It can go after opponent's Lili or Jace, but not that great.

The card that can deal with all the MUs, is Venser. Venser bounces the equipment/Prelate and then block to kill SFM or anything that matters. When your opponent SnT, you now can Venser in and bounce whatever your opponent put in. Sure your opponent might be able to draw 7, but at least you are not spending Mana, your Mana can be spent on fighting over stack or something else. Against BUG decks, Venser is great for the slower, Shardless BUG version, bounce Lili or a Vision is always nice, you might even get to bounce needle/null rod. It might be too slow for the BUG tempo, depending on which version.

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As much as I love Venser, is he really worth it without Karakas? Sure, he can bounce Lili, but for 1 CMC less you can CJ her. I agree with you, he can fill a role against any MU, but wouldn't that qualify for the main deck?

I used to have Venser in my SB but I cut him, and I play a miser's one-of Karakas. I think he's just too slow right now. If SnS starts getting much more popular he might go back into the SB.

Awesome final for EE.

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Originally Posted by HSCK

Awesome final for EE.

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For those without context, my good friend, Anuraag Das, also known as Anzi104 or AnziD on here and twitch, proliferator of the 4 Predict build of Miracles since last November, has won Eternal Extravaganza 6 with 4 Predict miracles, defeating his roommate and Eternal Weekend 2015's Legacy Champion, Bob Huang in the finals, who was on 3 Predict miracles.

They were playing 74/75, with the only difference being Anuraag play 2 Snap main, 4 Predict main with the 3rd Snapcaster in the sideboard, with Bob playing 3 Snap main 3 Predict main with the 4th Snapcaster in the sideboard.

Hello all! I've been testing Miracles out on Cockatrice for a few weeks, and I'm curious about win condition choices. My local meta, from what I can gather, consists of the cheaper options for Legacy because it is a fledgling scene. Decks such as Burn and BR Reanimator are very popular (the scene is also very small), but there are some more established players who play Infect and D&T. I interpreted this as Mentor being the better win condition because I can close out the game rather quickly once the combo decks have used up their gas. However, I also wanted to run Entread as a lategame engine against D&T. I decided to utilize a 2-1 split on Mento-Entreat, but I'm not sure if this is correct. Again, I'm not entirely familiar with the deck, but I am learning quickly. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

They were playing 74/75, with the only difference being Anuraag play 2 Snap main, 4 Predict main with the 3rd Snapcaster in the sideboard, with Bob playing 3 Snap main 3 Predict main with the 4th Snapcaster in the sideboard.

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Congrats Anuraag! Looking forward to seeing you and Bob banter on stream about this one ;)

Finally tried a single Predict last night. It was fine, but I don't think I'll go to more than 1.

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

For those without context, my good friend, Anuraag Das, also known as Anzi104 or AnziD on here and twitch, proliferator of the 4 Predict build of Miracles since last November, has won Eternal Extravaganza 6 with 4 Predict miracles, defeating his roommate and Eternal Weekend 2015's Legacy Champion, Bob Huang in the finals, who was on 3 Predict miracles.

They were playing 74/75, with the only difference being Anuraag play 2 Snap main, 4 Predict main with the 3rd Snapcaster in the sideboard, with Bob playing 3 Snap main 3 Predict main with the 4th Snapcaster in the sideboard.

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Hoy mano people asisted? Where i can find videos? Congratz

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

Finally tried a single Predict last night. It was fine, but I don't think I'll go to more than 1.

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It's unlikely you'll get great results from a single Predict, it's an engine in the deck. I'd advise trying the full set to feel it in action, it's a really different playstyle and dramatically changes lots of MUs. I feel like you have a lot of bias against it, though. Try and play it with an open mind.

Congrats to AnziD!
We want the report!

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

It's unlikely you'll get great results from a single Predict, it's an engine in the deck. I'd advise trying the full set to feel it in action, it's a really different playstyle and dramatically changes lots of MUs. I feel like you have a lot of bias against it, though. Try and play it with an open mind.

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I've never felt the want for more cards in hand. I also don't play an aggro-style with the deck; I'd rather sit back, bide my time, answer threats, and then turn the corner like a traditional Miracles deck. Predict makes the deck faster; my playstyle is to play the deck "slower" (in terms of closing out, not actually slow play; I'm not a monkey.) I've never had troubles finishing games or finding answers when I need to. And if I wanted to run more predicts, I would have to cut some answers. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

I've never felt the want for more cards in hand. I also don't play an aggro-style with the deck; I'd rather sit back, bide my time, answer threats, and then turn the corner like a traditional Miracles deck. Predict makes the deck faster; my playstyle is to play the deck "slower" (in terms of closing out, not actually slow play; I'm not a monkey.) I've never had troubles finishing games or finding answers when I need to. And if I wanted to run more predicts, I would have to cut some answers. No thanks.

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Sure, but it's not simply about 'having more cards' or based on playstyle. It's a reaction to the current state of Legacy. A larger number than ever of other top decks are either playing Abrupt Decay or have other ways around CB (vial, cavern, high cmc etc). CB has been the 'engine' to generate virtual card advantage in the past, but it's no longer as reliable as before. These current Predict builds with Jace and Entreat are absolutely 'slow' control as you put it, but they have this CA engine built in to fight the other fair decks with raw CA. It's also a huge trump in the mirror.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

I've never felt the want for more cards in hand. I also don't play an aggro-style with the deck; I'd rather sit back, bide my time, answer threats, and then turn the corner like a traditional Miracles deck. Predict makes the deck faster; my playstyle is to play the deck "slower" (in terms of closing out, not actually slow play; I'm not a monkey.) I've never had troubles finishing games or finding answers when I need to. And if I wanted to run more predicts, I would have to cut some answers. No thanks.

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That just sounds like you'll be taking more losses due to an inability to adjust.

Went 4-4 @ the GP Shizuoka Grade Up Legacy Tournament + won an 8 man with a pretty standard mentor miracles build. I'm very new to the deck and I'm pretty sure a competent player would've gone 6-2/7-1 in the matches I punted. Flusterstorm and JTMS overperformed all day and please pardon the poverty manabase. Do you guys have any tricks for (1) maintaining mental acuity + (2) remembering what you left on top? I'm not used to playing a control deck IRL (normally a combo player used to predefined lines)

Maindeck
* 4 Polluted Delta (Waiting for Tarns to drop)
* 4 Strand
* 2 Arid Mesa
* 1 Steam Vents (Traded 3 HP forces for a SP revised Volc. Score!)
* 1 Plains
* 1 Plateau
* 6 Islands
* 2 Tundra
* 4 Counterbalance
* 4 Top
* 4 Ponder
* 4 Brainstorm
* 3 Snapcaster Mage
* 1 Engineered Explosives
* 4 Terminus
* 4 STP
* 1 JTMS
* 1 Council's Judgment
* 1 Pyroblast (Japanese meta)
* 3 Mentor
* 1 Counterspell
* 4 Force of Wll

Sideboard

* 2 Sower of Temptation - Sneak and Show City
* 1 Containment Priest
* 2 V-Clique (Need a 3rd)
* 1 Flusterstorm (Need a 2nd)
* 2 Wear/Tear
* 2 Blood Moon (overperformed vs my Leovold MUs)
* 2 Surgicals
* 3 Pyroblasts

Rd 1 - Miracles Mirror 0-2 (Tried to slam a turn 4 mentor with force+flusterstorm backup, opponent had force, flusterstorm, flusterstorm)
Rd 2 - Tin fins 2-1 (he force checked my every game)
Rd 3 - Eldrazipost 1-2 (Lost g1, g2 I swords his ulamog, blood moon him, then Mentored him to death. G3 he had T1 Mimic, T2 TKS, T3 Smasher draw)
Rd 4 - Monoblack Pox 0-2. Chains is a card.
Rd 5 - Burn 2-0. Deck was totally foil with full guru landbase. top+balance+float terminus for fireblast shenanigans = GG.
Rd 6 - Shardless 0-2. Mulled a lot and got crushed by leovold.
Rd 7 - Shardless 1-0. G1 took around 45 minutes with JTMS outdueling Lily. We were in a topdecking war, so I just keep fateseeling him with 2 tops in play, while he kept armagedoning my lands.
Rd 8 - Solder Stompy 2-1. G1 he t1 T-sphere into T2 Arbiter +GQ. G2/G3 Wear/Tear did serious work, with JTMS fatesealing him G2/Mentor going nuts g3.

Side Event

Rd 1 - Miracles Mirror 2-0. G1 I won a huge counterwar around turn 7ish, then mentored him to death. G2 he stumbled on land and I pyroblasted 2 of his ponders.
Rd 2 - BUG Leovold 2-0. Took around 1.5 hours to finish this. Classic grindfest with JTMS + terminus preventing him from doing anything G1, whereas G2 I blood mooned him with 0 cards in hand/all nonbasics, then dropped a mentor to take it.
rd 3 - Grixis Delver 2-0. Fast balance G1 took it, whereas G2 I drew a metric shitload of pyroblasts.

After going 5-0 then 0-4 at the GP, yesterday really highlighted why legacy is the best format. Interactive, skill testing, and most of all super fun. Seriously, Magic is supposed to be a game about casting spells between dueling wizards, and Legacy is just that. I used to mainly play lands and dredge, but I'm now dedicated to playing miracles and look forward to improving.

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Originally Posted by Pische

Congrats to AnziD!
We want the report!

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Congrats Anzid! Just want your views on not playing mentor against mirror, how would you board against a mirror that plays mentor?

THanks.

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Originally Posted by HSCK

That just sounds like you'll be taking more losses due to an inability to adjust.

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I've avoided playing Predict for a long time and I never once felt like I needed the card. I ended EW2016 with a 6-3 record, with losses coming to 4c Loam, a concession to DnT (was 1-1-1 and I felt I was dead to his hand vs. my hand), and Grixis Delver. Granted, this is before Leovold made BUG decks more prevalent, but people were playing already 2-3 Predicts back then. In none of my losses did I think I needed to draw more answers; my opponents just had way more gas than answers I could have ever drawn. And cutting down on answers just to have more looks to find them is not a direction I want to go in with the deck.

A 6-3 record is hardly a good, or big enough sample size to draw conclusions from. Anyway, I stated why I think it's great currently. If you don't like it that's fine.

The point is, you keep pushing Predict as an end-all-be-all auto-include in the deck in the same way Terminus and Top are, and it just isn't. Like others in here have said, going heavier on Predict will make some MUs better and some MUs worse. The MUs that are made better, I don't find myself struggling with them to begin with, and I'd rather not have other MUs get worse.

The finals of a large legacy tournament was 4 Predict vs 3 Predict and you've decided this is a good time to convince people that Predict sucks?