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Looks good. Boy do I miss using Galvanic Blast. Playing that with Tezzeret in the same deck was why I got into playing Tezz Affinity in the first place this year.
What's your sideboard like? Did you ever get a chance to try out Umezawa's Jitte or Cabal Therapy?
On MODO, I have 3 Jitte's and when I get them online, I basically win. As for Cabal Therapy, I still need to practice with them, but the raw power is undeniable. I wish I had enough money to buy the Jtte's, but I just spent a bunch to finish my LED Dredge... All in all, I think my Affinity deck is where I want it to be right now, and I haven't really had any problems with it. Plays good, and is pretty consistent at getting wins. If I have time, I'd like to try it out at a tournament again.
How do you feel about Jitte being an answer to other people's Jitte? Do you still wish you had Ancient Grudge for that purpose? I'm trying to see if I can get more supporters of my SB 3 Jitte plan :)
I think you should consider Myr Enforcer over Signal Pest, though. Myr Enforcer nets you just about the same damage, if not more than, a Pest would with Battle Cry, except it's much harder for the opponent to actually kill.
Jitte in the SB is pretty darn amazing. I'm gonna get some once I can, because in my MTGO testing they have been ridiculous! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
The reason I think I'm going to keep Pest in is because it wears a Plating pretty well. I know Enforcer is a 4/4 always, but the lack of evasion makes me kind of wary of it. Maybe I'm going to change my mind, maybe not, but for now I'm going to keep my Pests in because it has evasion and it boosts my dudes at the same time.
If that's the case, why not cut Memnite? You can go -4 Memnite for either +4 Enforcer or +3 Enforcer +1 Signal Pest. Or somewhere in between. Four Memnite is excessive now. You might have a little more clunkiness with Myr Enforcer not being able to power out faster turn 1-2 plays but you'll also feel a little better when you draw an Enforcer after a board swipe than you would with Memnite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy
I recently had the same thought and decided to try no Memnites. Enforcer gets stuck in my hand more than I'd like, and is somewhat often win-more so far, but I'm thinking of testing -2 Ravager, -1 MoE, -1 Enforcer, +3 SFM, +1 Jitte.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Singal Pest
2 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Glimmervoid
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Darksteel Citadel
Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Cursed Totem
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage[
I would rather run Memnite than Frogmite, though. It's always 0 mana and it can activate Mox Opal on turn 1. The p/t difference is negligible as they are both relatively weak and can still be chump blocked by Snapcaster Mage.
Honestly, I think both Memnite and Frogmite have outlived their usefulness. Despite the speed and synergy they provide, they are still unable to make Affinity more or less consistent in every game state (early, mid, late), and it's because Memnite and Frogmite are inherently weak. Relative to the power level of Legacy, they provide no imminent board presence by themselves and furthermore, they are liabilities as they are very susceptible to the current tier of removal being played. I don't know about the rest of you, but I am sick of Snapcaster Mage 2-for-1'ing me by taking out a Frogmite or Memnite as they buyback a StP that's probably been used before.
Cutting four Memnite does weaken Springleaf Drum so I did edit my suggestion to mention that some number of Memnites can be cut. Springleaf Drum is another card of the deck I have a problem with, but I think I'll talk about that in another post.
I know... But what else do you play? There are only so many playable cards for us sadly. If we cut drums toon (I agree they are terrible), what can we use? More lands? I've tested petals and found them lacking.
I actually really like Drum.. Especially early on, but I don't want multiples. I want to test Ravager, maybe add 1-2, and remove a Drum or 2.
I've been trying out the singleton Ravager for half a year now and through all my tweaking, I've never taken it out ever since I put it in the MD. It's amazing, it can act as both an auxiliary MoE or Cranial Plating.
It's not that hard to replace four Memnites. I cut four to complete my sets of Tezz, MoE and Champ in the MD. EDIT: If you already run playsets of those, add in Blinkmoth Nexuses to complete your creature quota. They add to your creature count and your land count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggedjoe
I found Petal to be really amazing. It acts just like Memnite would with Mox Opal. You can play an artifact land, Opal, and Petal, and have access to 3 mana on turn 1. Petal's only downside compared to Springleaf Drum is its lack of reusebality, where Springleaf Drum has to use creatures for mana.
EDIT: I've actually been using something else alongside Lotus Petal as a mana source. Take a guess what it is:
12 Artifacts Lands
23 Tombs
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Opal
2 Petals
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thopter
4 Skirge
4 MoE
1 Ravager
4 Champ
43 Enforcer
4 TC
4 Plating
3 Spell Pierce
4 Tezzeret
SB:
2 Karakas
3 Jitte
3 Relic
3 O-Ring
2 Revoker
2 Therapy
After trying out 4 Petal or 3 petal 1 Drum, I decided I needed a mana source that wasn't Springleaf Drum and that had a little more value to it. I tried Chromatic Star for a bit, which was okay if I knew when to consume it for mana, and I goldfished some hands with Prophetic Prism and even Mana Cylix! I liked the Prism because it drew a card, but I wanted a mana source that could tap for colored mana on its own, that didn't require mana I had leftover just to use my mana source once I resolved it. I found out that in my hands, I wanted Talisman the most because it could tap for :u: with no mana cost as soon as I resolved it, making me able to cast a Spell Pierce if I needed to or net me mana next turn to cast Tezzeret.
I think right now there are 2 ways to build Affinity:
- swarm strategy, full of Memnites, Thopters, Pests, Frogmites and MOE --> you wanna win as fast as you can
- "disruption" strategy, a bit slower but with some control over opponent and a little more consistency
I don't like anymore the swarm strategy cause I feel it's based on pure luck, and it's not even that fun.
So a couple of months ago I tried the disruption way, but I exaggerated a bit too much cause I played 4 Chalice + 3 Revoker MB, and it was bad: you win when you meet the "right" deck and you lose against everyone else.
Maybe Affinity should build like something in the middle between ultra-fast swarm and slower disruption strategy.
It's not easy at all to find the right balance.
I'd like to cut Memnites as well, but until now they've been too important to get Opal online from turn 1... if we cut them we should accept the fact we are slowing down our clock... or yes, we could play Petals instead of Memnites, but we are dropping a potential beater if equipped with Cranial.
I don't like Petals that much cause I feel we need our mana to be re-usable; that's why I'm insisting on Drums.
Also, I think 4 Tezzeret are really a lot... 3x is good (but starting with 2 in hand is awful), playing the full playset is a bit too much imho.
My last list has 4 Memnites and 2 Frogmites MB, and the Frogmites are the first to make room for sideboard choices.
I'll try to cut Memnites to play 1 more MoE (3x total), 1 more Frogmite (3x total) and 2 Enforcers (2x total).
About sideboard: since I play 4x Chalice, which is often played @ 1, I tried to cut as many 1 drops as possible, therefore as anti-GY I play only Tormod's (3x) but no Relics.
I wouldn't call the second strategy 'disruption,' as I consider that direction of the deck to be more focused on the purpose of resiliency, that is limiting the effectiveness of your opponent's interactions with you, as opposed to pure disruption. But I agree with you that Tezz Affinity variants tend to follow either one of those disciplines.
With Deathrite Shaman increasingly seeing more play and UW Miracles that has by now become the premier control deck of Legacy, the 'swarm' strategy can only become less and less effective as more effective removal spells and cards like Deathrite Shaman, that can incrementally shrink your chance of winning, are being printed.
However, I don't think Tezzeret Affinity has to go in the completely opposite direction. As you said, anakyn, making the deck more 'controllish' just makes you into a bad aggro deck AND a bad control deck.
I just think Tezzeret Affinity should fall somewhere in between the two ends of the spectrum, having the explosive power without being completely vulnerable to timely removal or disruption. I believe my list does that, because it shaves off the more explosive yet vulnerable elements (4 Memnite, 4 Frogmite, 4 Signal Pest) and fills up on the slower yet more powerful elements (4 MoE, 4 Champ, 4 Tezz, 3 Myr Enforcer).
I just took out 2 Ornithopter so that I can now run 18 lands (3x Nexus) and 5 artifact mana sources NOT including Opal (3 Talisman, 2 Petal), which I believe remedy the 'consistency problem' that plagues contemporary Affinity lists.
By now, I have removed at least one-quarter of the original Tezz Affinity deck's staples, the free creatures and Signal Pest. The best part of my deck after all of these changes is that despite all of the muscle I've packed in, it still doesn't feel inconsistent because I've added more lands. It just feels more powerful and I feel I lose games a lot less.
You need all four against any control deck. Against other matchups where excess Tezz is a liability, just keep 2 Tezz in games 2 and 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by anakyn
The difference between Tormod's Crypt and Relic is that Relic can expeditiously invalidate strategies that rely on conservative use of the graveyard (Deathrite Shaman, Tarmogoyf even) where using Tormod's Crypt would often be wasteful or ineffective. If Chalice is the only reason you're running Tormod's Crypt instead of Relic, you should drop Chalice or just run Relic despite Chalice. Relic is too useful NOT to run.Quote:
About sideboard: since I play 4x Chalice, which is often played @ 1, I tried to cut as many 1 drops as possible, therefore as anti-GY I play only Tormod's (3x) but no Relics.
How is everyone doing with Affinity now? I haven't had time to go to tournaments, and I stop by my LGS a few times a week, but everyone plays Standard (except me)... Haven't been able to test...
I haven't been able to play in any tournaments, but I've switched my build up to try out a list I saw that made T8 in November.
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Frogmite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
2 Memnite
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 City of Traitors
I believe in his build he was playing Ancient Tomb and he dropped down to 14 lands to play 1 Umezawa's Jitte MD.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=69602
Cutting an Ancient Tomb to bring the land count to 14 just to include a 1-of Jitte is a poor decision. I'm not impressed.
This is my current incarnation of Affinity:
Mana Sources (26)
12 Artifact Lands
3 Tombs
3 Blinkmoth
1 Glimmervoid
4 Opal
3 Talisman
Threats (23, but really 26 because of the Blinkmoths)
4 Skirge
4 Master
4 Champ
1 Ravager
3 Pest
3 Enforcer
4 Tezz
Other Business
4 TC
4 Plating
3 Pierce
2 Karakas
3 Jitte
3 Relic
3 O-Ring
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 flex slots
I find 14 lands to be extremely low.. I would not have done that, especially since the list is so tight.
Yeah, I'm pretty partial to the 15, so I left out the Jitte and kept the 15th land in. I've liked everything else. If my LGS ever did Legacy again instead of infinite Standard, I'd give it a go.
I have rebuilt my affinity deck into a faster version because I had the experience that my cc3 spells are too slow.
I am testing this list currently:
19
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Frogmite
3 Vault Skirge
for the early rush
6
2 Master of Etherium
2 Etched Champion
2 Myr Enforcer
some bigger stuff
14
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Gitaxian Probe (a pretty good spell, to see what actions one has to do/can do)
the non-mana, non-creature stuff
21
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Island (path to exile, explorer, wasteland-proof casting blue spells)
mana stuff
My Sb is very flexible but I am not shure if I should add Spell Pierce to it.
15
4 Pithing Needle
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Perish
I've actually liked building a more controlling build with a couple prison-ish elements. I made a build with Sphere of Resistance and placed pretty high, but now I'm kind of set on mana accelerants and turn 1 2-drops that need to be answered. Here's what I've got so far:
4 Ancient Den
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
2 City of Brass
2 Glimmervoid
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Oblivion Ring (to fight S+T, Rean)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Batterskull
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Ornithopter
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Trinket Mage (flex slot)
SB: Another Crypt, another SOFI, Sword of Body and Mind, 4 Suppression Field, 4 Thalia?? plus 4 ???
What I've noticed from playing this less-explosive build - you've got fewer wimpy Ornithopters and Memnites and stuff. Those guys only really come online with a plating, and now I'm effectively running 8 platings, too. Also, Turn 1 Confidant is really difficult to answer, same with SFM and Chalice; 20 cards to imprint are more than enough for Chrome, and sometimes Chrome just helps Opal get metalcraft turn 1. I usually have a ton of cards mid-late game, so the deck doesn't really lose steam; also, mulling down isn't that bad, because SFM and Bob can get you back into the game right away. Wasteland can set you back much more than traditional Affinity, however, because you're more mana-dependent.
Just thought I'd put this list out there and give you guys some new ideas for it. I had Etched Champ instead of Trinket, but sometimes Champ is just a nice Pearled Unicorn; that and the Swords already give enough evasion. I haven't tested Trinket, but it grave-hates, snags Thopter for evasion, and grabs Chalice because that card hurts. I scrubbed bad last night, but I've done well most nights and hold to the merits of this list.
** About Chrome - I tend to imprint Thoughtcast the most! I like having stronger options in high-power dudes over just a couple more unknown draw. I think that's a good sign of the non-artifact options.
I would try to add an extra Opal, Shawon converted me to running 4, and I haven't been disappointed at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy