It might be win-more to include the DD, but the land destruction is pretty much the icing on the cake and 90% of agrgo decks can't recover from an early sweep - like on turn 2/3.
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It might be win-more to include the DD, but the land destruction is pretty much the icing on the cake and 90% of agrgo decks can't recover from an early sweep - like on turn 2/3.
I'm running a 1-of DD instead of 3rd Ruin because of the land destruction aspect. Take Maverick, for instance. If you DD on T3 for 3, you're taking out all their lands, and presumably, all their guys. You, on the other hand, will hopefully have Loam or a Mox Diamond you've run this off of. It'll be MUCH harder for them to recover from both a board-sweep and the land destruction, even if they now have a 5/5 Knight.
Ghastly has been fine for me, but like I said, it only covers 2/4 of our removal requirements. I've never had problems with it, but I could see an early Ooze causing a bit of headache...maybe. Once you've Dredged once or twice, it's fine (or if you've cracked fetches or played anything, for that matter).
-Matt
I think I just have a number of historical hangups to running Ghastly. Playing this deck in Crypt_and_Counterbalance.format was a real bad time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
That said, Deathmark kills 90% of what Ghastly does on average. Goblins isn't really a deck anymore (and you are handily beating it if you see it), Merfolk isn't really a deck anymore (and you are probably beating it if you see it), and various black/whatever decks are resistant to both Deathmark and Ghastly Demise. So yeah, instant-speed aside, I think Deathmark takes it here.
I've been on the Deathmark wagon for months, especially in Rock. Our meta went really Delver for a while, so I've replaced them with Ghastly, but not sure if it'll swing back.
-Matt
I don't think there's too much of a cost to running, say, 2 Deathmark main. In the Delver matchups it still hits Tarmogoyf, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Oh, for sure, but I still wanted a bit more versatility. I'll probs be switching it back.
-Matt
Man would Dread of Night have come in handy. I left it out of the board and faced Esper Spirits and D&T :(
2-1, but I'm not playing close to optimally and making infinite small mistakes
Hey, guys
I've been playin naya loam for a while, and i think it's stronger than jund and 4c loam builds. The only reason for B is DC and some side, but I have cut him for library and fires, which add those "little" combos. Fire is great against mystic and planeswalkers.
here's my last build:
-34 spells
4 knight
3 crusher
3 tarmogoyf
1 terravore
4 wish
3 loam
2 dreams
3 punishing fire
2 assault
1 sylvan library
4 mox
4 chalice
-26 lands
4 wfoothills
2 mire
3 wasteland
3 grove
3 taiga
1 plateau
3 thicket
3 cave
1 forest
1 mountain
1 maze
1 barbarian ring (maybe some other tool land?)
SB:
2 grip
2 EE
2 Thrun
2 scavenging ooze
1 loam
1 dreams
1 worm harvest
1 tariff
1 reverent silence
1 shattering spree
1 karakas
I think that 4 chalice are definitely better than our 1cmc options (except, maybe, for swords). My opinion is that lavamancer/bolt<chalice in almost all our pairings. Also, fire is a better direct damage source option in this deck.
I'm not sure about the side, maybe could add more grave hate, or 3 confinements against combo.
What do you think about it?
This may be true that Chalice is better than Bolt is most settings, but, what would you rather have against Jace: Chalice, or Bolt?
Now, your argument is sound, in a sense. Chalice of the Void is a good card right now. However, by playing Chalice, we do lose some of our own efficiency by not being able to use Bolt/Ghastly. Now, when MM was around, this was a different story. I ran zero 1-drops to avoid MM and earn 4 dead cards played in almost every deck, without nutting myself at all.
My problem with Chalice is this:
a) remove all 1-drops
b) Play Chalice on either turn 1 or 2, but now, if we don't draw Mox, we're definitely doing NOTHING on turn 1, for sure.
c) Land Chalice. Subsequent Chalices now become awful. Subsequent Bolts, however, do not.
I understand it from a removal and an advantage point of view to stopping STP and Brainstorms and whatnot, but it's not like Stax where we're also stopping them from doing anything else using Tangle Wire or Trinisphere.
But, do tell us how you find it. Maybe I'm just caught in the past, but I've never really liked Chalice in this deck.
-Matt
I find myself missing chalice not for the offensive as much as the defensive. Chalice at one still shuts off most removal. I've had too many games where I got blown out by decks that just had a plow/path then snapcaster->path/plow for all of my guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
How are we fixing that issue with 1cmc things?
Snapcaster for infinite removal can be fixed by Surgical/Extirpate and damage spells like Punishing Fire and Seismic Assault.
Past that, there aren't really that many 1cc things that you're afraid of.
How good is punishing fires/grove right now? This seems to be the main power play in many of these loam reports. They basically read: kill all utility creatures and all plainswalkers, is this the new strongest reason to play loam?
Placed 2nd at a local tournament, report to follow.
Had to play the mirror match in the semi's, Punishing Fires version vs. Mine. Suffice to say, I fucked shit up and got there like a fucking champ. Crush that shit!
-Matt
I imagine the fires versions will be the worst in the mirror match due to the huge creatures that fires cannot touch. Vs say, maverick or blade the fires version should perform better....
My list:
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Wasteland
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Forgotten Cave
3 Taiga
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Countryside Crusher
1 Terravore
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
2 Terminate
2 Deathmark
1 Maelstorm Pulse
1 Putrefy
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Sylvan Library
--BOARD--
1 Devastating Dreams
2 Virtue's Ruin
2 Noxious Revival
3 REB
2 Krosan Grip
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Extirpate
Round 1: Chad with Esper Stoneblade
I think I win the die roll for the first game, and we go back and forth a bit. I get some stuff countered, but eventually land Loam + Assault. He scoops.
In: +2 Ancient Grudge, +2 Noxious Revival, +1 Krosan Grip
Out: -1 Loam, -1 Seismic Assault, -1 Ooze, -1 Deathmark, -1 Putrefy
Game 2, Pretty sure he either Jaces me out or some crap like that. I draw into land, land, land, etc. I lose Loam to Surgical.
Game 3, I get Loamed Surgicaled, I dodge with a cycling land. I loam again, he plays Surgical, I attempt to Noxious dodge. He has a counterspell. Fair. I drop two Countryside Crushers and Seismic. I rumble in for lots. Scoops!
Round 2: Jacob with Maverick
Game 1 is basically 100% drama. I've got Dark Confidant and Countryside Crusher online with a Loam, while he's got a SFM I couldn't deal with (SoLaS, i had Deathmark a turn too late), and a bunch of other garbage online. He drops 2 Qasali and swings in, I draw and lay out a Mox diamond, pitching a land, but forgetting the trigger to Countryside Crusher. I put down a fetchland and have a Cycler in hand with Loam in the bin.
Now, at this point, he has 2 Qasali's and a tapped SFM with a Light and Shadow. At best, he's got a 5/6 and I've got a 5/5 for sure. But, I figure I can cycle Dredge Loam and get to 6/6 or more. Fair enough.
So, we move to his main phase, and he attacks with SFM at 5/6. I crack my fetch, ticking my Crusher up. He stops and calls the judge. He asks for the oracle text on my Russian Crusher, and then says I missed a trigger last turn. I missed it, so I say I totally did, and sorry. Judge says since it's been less than a turn cycle, that to apply the counter now and get some warnings. He then accused me of cheating and missing the trigger on purpose to try and juice him in combat (by then saying, "Oh yeah, missed the trigger, now I juice your SFM").
So, it gets into a bit of an argument, since my Crushers are Russian. He says I'm trying to use that as an edge to try and get him. I tell him he could've asked for the oracle at any time, and the judge is letting him back up to before combat. He says he wants to back up to the previous turn, since he fetched a Qasali with the GSZ instead of an Ooze. Judge no-sirs him on that, and we continue to play, but he gets super belligerent. Basically, he says if I don't know my deck, don't play it. I basically tell him that missed triggers happen, and asked him about his perfect technical play. I swing in with Crusher for almost lethal leaving him at 2), but not cycling my lands to kill him on the spot. Instead, I let him come back on the swing back into my Ooze (which pumped itself up to a 6/6, blocked his SFM, killed it, and I didn't die). Take that, champ.
In: +2 Virtue's Ruin, +1 Devastating Dreams, +1 Noxious Revival.
Out: -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Seismic Assault, -1 Putrefy, -1 Goyf
Game 2, I get overrun when I don't draw lands.
Game 3, I open with a Mox opener into T2 Seismic Assault, mucking his Turn 1 Noble. I can't get multiple Loams per turn due to me mana, so I have to only 6 him per turn. He lucksacks the Qasali, and i drop another Seismic. He has another Qasali, and I drop Crusher, then Crusher. He has a Swords, but then drops Sylvan Library. Eventually, he plays out a turn with Knight, Mother, SFM, Teeg, and something else white. He Bogs the fuck out of me, and I start cycling (was tapped out at the time) to look for removal. His Knight is tapped, but has enough on the swing back to kill me, and he only has to chump with , well, anything. I cycling four times and get Virtue's Ruin, muck his entire board, swing for exact. He doesn't believe Virtue's Ruin is a card. By God, it is.
Rest of the report to follow soon!
-Matt
Round 3: Nixon with Esper Stoneblade:
Game 1 I get locked out of the game with Jace very early on, and he was discard and many counters. Sigh.
Same boarding as before.
Game 2 I end up getting there by pulling a needed Ancient Grudge and Terravore gets there in two swings through a token army and Batterskull (that died to Grudge).
Game 3 I keep a 6 of Ooze, Goyf, Crusher and 3 lands. Slow, but not a bad 6. He has 3 pieces of discard, then I flood on lands for the next ten turns. What the fucking fuck.
Round 4: Brandon (winner of the SCG SLC Open) with Aggro Loam
Brandon plays this deck in Modern, but he has much less experience with it in Legacy. He starts off with a Turn 1 Loam, but I'm on Turn 1 Bob. He Fires my Bob, then passes. I drop Loam, and cycle. I fetch all basics, and leave his Wastes dead. I push Seismic and kill him in a single turn with Bolt + many lands.
In: +3 Extirpate, +2 Noxious Revival, +2 Grip
Out: -4 Bob (Fires, yuck), -1 Putrefy, -1 Deathmark, -1 Loam
I get stuck on one Badlands and a Wasteland, but then I get greedy and Waste him. He draws into lands and plays Assault. I sit for ten turns and don't draw lands while he derdles and I just scoop it up.
Game 3, however, is great. I go turn 1 Loam, he plays Goyf. I play Pulse, he plays Loam. I dredge, then drop Ooze and suck up Goyf. He plays Ooze (tapped out), and I suck up more Dredges creatures to have a 5/5 Ooze. I start beating in. I draw Deathmark, and juice him. He tries to Dredge Loam, but I have double green to get rid of it. I then Extirpate his Fires. GG. Experience and knowing the deck definitely helped, I'd say.
Overall, I place 2nd on tiebreaks, since Jacob didn't beat Nixon (if he had, I would have won). Oh well.
Overall, I loved the list. Putrefy came out every time due to Grudge being better, but Game 1 instant speed artifact removal theoretically seems good. My split of Deathmark/Terminate/Bolt however was awesome, I loved it.
-Matt
Matt, what are your thoughts on Extirpate over Surgical? And why didn't you board Extirpate in against Stoneblade?
EDIT: derp.
What am I going to hit? Souls? Seems fine, but I didn't have much to cut...
I knew I was going to be playing against Loam possibly, so I ran Extirpate over Surgical. Otherwise, it'd be Surgical.
-Matt
I was thinking removal, mostly, or their Surgicals.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Doesn't Stoneblade typically only run a few pieces of equipment? I'm wondering if you need all the artifact hate.
True, but they can be super annoying.
-Matt