[Deck] The Gate

Seems to me that this deck has too many potential dead draws to ever be consistent enough to be a serious threat in Legacy. Look at all the potentially bad situations:

-second Jitte
-second Percy
-late game Hymn
-late game Wasteland
-innocent blood when outnumbered/opponent has an easily sackable creature
-late game Ritual (for those that run it)

Compare that to some of the Tier 1 decks. Every draw for Zoo is a dude, a land, or burn. Worst case for them (besides mana flood) is pulling a PtE against an opponent with no creatures, which is either really bad b/c it's combo, or really good b/c they're winning. Same story with Goblins. Merfolk? Counters, dudes, land. Worst thing is drawing extra Vials. CounterTop doesn't mind drawing extra lock pieces...they're going for the long game and after game 1 they're on the lookout for Grip anyway. Combo only runs mana, search, and kill pieces, with a minimal disruption suite.

Black's disruption is really great when you draw the right cards at the right time. Problem is that if you're not cheating, you have no guarantee of doing that, and that's why I think this deck and others like it are having such mixed results. I think Top helps with this issue somewhat, but it's effectiveness is greatly reduced by not running fetches. Also, it's a constant mana sink for a deck that runs no acceleration and curves out at 4.

I've been playing similar decks for a while and even tried out the Gate when it was fairly new, and I always run into this problem. Anyone else feeling the same way?

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Originally Posted by Dick Cheese

Seems to me that this deck has too many potential dead draws to ever be consistent enough to be a serious threat in Legacy. Look at all the potentially bad situations:

-second Jitte
-second Percy
-late game Hymn
-late game Wasteland
-innocent blood when outnumbered/opponent has an easily sackable creature
-late game Ritual (for those that run it)

Compare that to some of the Tier 1 decks. Every draw for Zoo is a dude, a land, or burn. Worst case for them (besides mana flood) is pulling a PtE against an opponent with no creatures, which is either really bad b/c it's combo, or really good b/c they're winning. Same story with Goblins. Merfolk? Counters, dudes, land. Worst thing is drawing extra Vials. CounterTop doesn't mind drawing extra lock pieces...they're going for the long game and after game 1 they're on the lookout for Grip anyway. Combo only runs mana, search, and kill pieces, with a minimal disruption suite.

Black's disruption is really great when you draw the right cards at the right time. Problem is that if you're not cheating, you have no guarantee of doing that, and that's why I think this deck and others like it are having such mixed results. I think Top helps with this issue somewhat, but it's effectiveness is greatly reduced by not running fetches. Also, it's a constant mana sink for a deck that runs no acceleration and curves out at 4.

I've been playing similar decks for a while and even tried out the Gate when it was fairly new, and I always run into this problem. Anyone else feeling the same way?

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I have been testing similar list to what sprenfrosch posted few pages back:

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Originally Posted by sporenfrosch1411

Here is my most recent list for reference.

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant

3 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Deathmark (maybe will go for 2 more Throats + 1 more Blood)
2 Go for the Throat
3 Innocent Blood
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top

19 Swamp

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Most of the time you either have Bitterblossom or Dark Confidant online providig you with advantage so the "dead" draws arent that bad. Top also helps a lot. I'd also recommend not playing with Wastelands as you really want to get BBB and get to 4 mana for persecutor consistently. Tribal are a lot easier when they cant slow you down by wasting your wasteland.

Ok, what would be your main objective of a SoXaY instead of a Jitte?

I understand that the Legendary Rule prevent you from doubling Jitte, but I honestly can't think of a common situation in which having a Jitte online is not solving the problem, but a Jitte + Sword would, so I don't buy this one much.

The protections offered by the swords, and the fact that they are slower than Jitte, suggests they'd be uset against a removal-heavy deck. Since you are discussing as a 1-of, I'm taking its objective is to be better against control (also for Jitte is the best bet against aggro).

If I was to test, I'd try SoLaS first. It can help with sticking your creatures against a control deck, by preventing most of the removal, by either adding 2 thoughtness against bolts (not useful for bob), and pro-white/black, and recurring dead confidants, which are usually the Lightning Rods...

What do you think?

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add Stoneforge Mystic. Not only does it make sure you get the equipment you want, but lets you get it into play through Counterbalances, etc. But then again, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to run Aether Vial as well....

@another color
I think this has been discusses so often and widely, that by reading the thread, you will get every question answered regarding this topic.
plus i personally dont see the need for another color at the moment.... at all

@Aether Vial
does not fit the curve plus its a dead draw.

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Originally Posted by CorpT

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to add Stoneforge Mystic. Not only does it make sure you get the equipment you want, but lets you get it into play through Counterbalances, etc. But then again, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to run Aether Vial as well....

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I tried incorporating Vial into monoblack. There's a thread I started if you want to pursue it. I'm not.

Then again, I'm not exactly running The Gate either.

Has anyone bothered testing Fleshbag Marauder over Gatekeeper? Much easier to cast, better chump blocker/attacker, and with Bitterblossom out, the sac effect is easy to deal with. Would let you keep Wasteland in at least.

Well, Gatekeeper is asynchron, meaning only your opponent has to sacrifice if you want him to.
I have not tested Marauder but on the paper Gatekeeper seems superiour to me.

I won a small tournament (emphasis on small) and got a Plateau.

List:

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant

3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Disfigure
2 Go for the Throat
4 Innocent Blood
2 Sensei's Divining Top

19 Swamp

SB:
2 Null Rod
2 Dark Ritual
2 Dystopia
2 Engineered Plague
2 Deathmark
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Leyline of the Void


Round 1 Homebrew BW Control
2-1 win. Lost 1 game to Baneslayer Angel and Kor Haven (I had 3 Persecutors!), who would have thought protection from Demons is relevant.

Round 2 MonoG Stompy (Kavu Predators and Invigorates etc.)
2-1 win. G1 I lose to 1 Kavu Predator on his 3rd turn (Disfigure was useless). G2 and G3 Dystopia dominates. G3 was a close one, I mulled to 5 and drew best possible cards each turn.

Round 3 MonoU Merfolk
2-1 win. G1 he overruns me with lords while tapping nighthawks with Reejerey. G2 and G3 Persecutor + Jitte, nuts. Confidant + Top, nuts.

Round 4 Burn
2-1 win. Apparently Jitte + Abyssal Persecutor wins vs Burn :D Discard/Creature removal slows him down just enough. Very close G3, if he had drawn any burn spell instead of land I would have lost. Its worth noting that Burn brings Smash to Smithereens from SB (if they see Jitte G1), discard is awesome against it.


- Disfigures were over Deathmarks as there were more decks with nonwhite/green creatures. Meta choice, any larger tournament I would play Deathmarks over Disfigures.
- Tops were awesome, I wouldn't play The Gate without them.
- We have no answer to Maze of ith/Kor Haven maindeck. Some more Pithing Needles in SB vs planeswalkers and annoying lands might be necessary.
- I mulliganed a lot. Many times I had only 1 land or no land at all.

Good one. How were the Tops treating you?

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Originally Posted by dsck

- Tops were awesome, I wouldn't play The Gate without them.

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Ah, missed that. Are they strong enough sans fetches, though?

Also, have you tested at all vs. the MUD deck floating around? If so, how is that going?

i stated that some posts ago too - i totally found tops to be great ;)

curious as to why no one is running tombstalker? i'll admit i haven't read all 59 pages yet.

We don't run Dark Rit or fetches to fuel it out, it's painful with Bob, easy to remove, difficult to recast, and we have a faster more synergistic clock with Abyssal Persecutor.

Yesterday I had propably the most epic match online ever. It was against something like GW Maverick + Fauna Shaman/Vengevine sheningans. Game one I am able to deal with everything he throws at me and have to top a few turns to get a sac outlet. ( I've also added one Top instead of fourth Bitterblossom.) . G2 I can't hit a third land for a few turns, holding three nighthawks and percy. I die fast to very a very huge army of my opponent. The third game was just insane. I have a great start, but I can't deal with mother of runes, which basicly holds me down long enough to gets me on life. Anyway, I am able to stabilize mid game with Nighthawk equipped with Bonehoard (it was 8/8 :D), and after that, he is able to topdeck every possible answer for like four turns. I don't remember how huge his team was at the time, but I couldn't kill it due to mother of runes. So anyway, he deals with my bonehoard, then finds a stoneforge mystic + jitte, then topdecks eternal witness while he's on one life, StPs my Persy while II continue to draw two lands and an Innocent Blood :/ Jitte gets something to like 10 counters and there's nothing I can do. So anyway, I reanalized that matchup, I did sideboard incorrectly, which propably costed me the game, but anyway, I'm really happy about the results in general. Like, the best of GW cards combination had a really hard time beating mono-b, and it won only because of some insane topdecks and it happened when he was on 1 life :]

So, Bonehoard as a one-off seems really good. I like it's synergy with all the removal the deck packs. Also, 19 lands is about the right number. Sure, sometimes it suffers from some mana inconcistencies, but it doesn't happen very often, atleast for me.

And about sensei's divining top - I switched the fourth bitterblossom with a top, and it's been quite nice. But I wouldn't run more than one.

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Originally Posted by Augustas

The third game was just insane. I have a great start, but I can't deal with mother of runes, which basicly holds me down long enough to gets me on life. Anyway, I am able to stabilize mid game with Nighthawk equipped with Bonehoard (it was 8/8 :D), and after that, he is able to topdeck every possible answer for like four turns. I don't remember how huge his team was at the time, but I couldn't kill it due to mother of runes.

So, Bonehoard as a one-off seems really good???!!!. I like it's synergy with all the removal the deck packs.

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No. Just no. Bonehoard sucks more ass than a directionally challenged crab louse. The correct deduction after Bonehoard managed to do nothing but delay the inevitable would have been totally the opposite of your painfully misguided conclusion. Stop yourself now and go get an Umezawa's Jitte. You lost to Mother of Runes because Bonehoard is not Jitte. Really.

Sigh

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Originally Posted by umbowta

No. Just no. Bonehoard sucks more ass than a directionally challenged crab louse. The correct deduction after Bonehoard managed to do nothing but delay the inevitable would have been totally the opposite of your painfully misguided conclusion. Stop yourself now and go get an Umezawa's Jitte. You lost to Mother of Runes because Bonehoard is not Jitte. Really.

Sigh

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Couldn't agree more. Umezawa's Jitte would simply kill Mother and get you the game.

Yes it would, but not that simple. If mother is online before jitte is, they can block and give pro black to make sure no counters are on jitte. Offcourse not with our 8 flying creatures though. Jitte is obviously better than bonehoard.

I found this list interesting:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...2&iddeck=41199