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You're welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightrider
If you want to take out combo pieces versus Reanimator (I do too) I usually start with Ballista since he can't kill their guys outside of combo anyway. I agree on library eventhough the filtering still useful. I agree that scourge can be underwhelming but sometimes being not blue is it's best trait.
How confidant are people in the Delver match ups? Any interesting tech?
What do people think to be their best and worst matchups?
How do people feel about keeping in food chain vs abrupt decay decks (Bug delver ect)
Baleful Strix is your best friend against delver.decks. In general, the worst matchups are the fastest decks (mostly combos) but we are favored against fair and slower decks. I feel very good about keeping in food chain against BUG decks : your combo finish can definitely make the difference when fighting in the midrange field, and you still have tools to fight against Abrupt Decay (Thoughtseize and post-sideboard Misdirection which is a blast to play).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekk
I don't know if you've read it, but I found this very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekk
My experience with the deck may be limited but I second this. Strix, Griffin, and Decay usually buy me time to grind them out. The games I seem to lose is when they resolve a early TNN and I can't deal with it in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by drfish
Delver is okay. The hardest are the ones who play heavy mana denial as our deck is so clunky. I have no interestingg tech but dont be afraid to saccing a Ballista early on to kill an unflipped delver. You dont need the combo to win unless they pack heavy burn. Your board will beat theirs in the midgame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekk
Survival and land drops are key.
Fast combo the worst matchups. I run 10 relevant cards vs storm in SB. Decks where Ballista shines are the best. Elves and death n taxes and delver to some extent are favourable in my experience.
Absolutely. Making them hold up decay each turn is a huge tempo swing and can win games on it's own.
Pardon my noob question but does any of you guys faced the problem of role assignment before? i.e. when to dig for combo or when to go for midrange?
I understand that we should combo off ASAP against faster combo decks like ANT, Reanimator, Sneak/Show(barring game 2,3 where we board out the food chain) and burn/elves.
But matches like shardless bug, duke bug, czech pile and delvers, will you still actively cantrip for the combo or will you cantrip for additional or counterspell to protect your board state. Not sure if you guys have experienced this before or maybe i am still inexperienced with the deck.
Recently i have been playing against Jund quite often and for me its quite a tough matchup. Between goyfs, bob, liliana and bbe, i can't seem to grind them out but yet i seem to have trouble assembling the combo due to their discard and decay. Would appreciate some advice on the match up.
My sb goes like this:
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Golgari Charm
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Engineered Plague
I would board like this: -4 FOW, + 1 surgical extraction, +1 needle, +2 edict.
Would you guys board plague in to negate bob and what else will you board out if that's the case?
Thanks!
Hey!
@Role Assignment: Yes, definitely. I think this flexibility/choice between the grind and the combo plan is the most difficult and at the same time (at least for me) the most appealing aspect of this deck.
I also think you outlined it pretty well: G1 against (fast) combo decks you usually need to steal a win with the combo. G2/G3 boarding out the combo and becoming a control deck (I for my part play for example 4 Hymns to Tourach etc) seems the best choice.
Against the fair decks, both routes seem possible and heavily depend on the boardstate and the game plan of your opponent. However, I think that going for the combo is essentially a byproduct of the grindplan. It is much easier to switch from the grind plan to the combo plan than the other way round. This also exploits the "fear" of your oponent and forces him to suboptimal plays: he often won't counter Gryffins because he keeps up his disruption for Food Chain and the Combo Turn - the same goes for removal. In such a spot casting Gryffins and going for the grindplan can get out of hand very quickly.
To sum up, I try to pursue the Grind Plan as long as possible until I am literally forced to combo (eg against a Nemesis with Batterskull) or the coast is clear for a smooth kill. It is also worth mentioning, that the "Semi-Combo" (eg just 3 Gryffins and a Food Chain) often suffices as well.
@Jund: I'd try to squeeze in the second Surgical Extraction as well - it is pretty annoying to fight against Grove/PFire... They might also have Life from the Loam. However this is not that much of an issue considering our high basic land count. Engineered Plague seems far too expensive and narrow though.
Overall, Gryffin Beatdown seems pretty strong against Jund. Thus, the primary goal should be resolving a Manipulate Fate. I wouldn't focus on the combo (once again the byproduct effect is interesting), as it takes a lot of ressources and they have tons of disruption on every axis. This is a MU where the "Semi-Combo" Shines as 3 Gryffins and a Food Chain are pretty difficult to beat for Jund.
Best regards,
C
PS: I have been struggling with the "New Miracles" Deck. It seems stronger than the old version against us...What are your experiences?
The role is hard with food chain I agree. The times you get it right, it's rewarding though.
In so many match ups you play control/survive and then win with card advantage or walking machine gun. Then switching to combo mode versus old n new miracles and other control/value decks can be hard.
I almost never board out the whole combo since I started running Ballista. The combo win is good versus other combo decks since you don't have much of a clock otherwice.
The only MU I fully take the combo out is vs Infect since we want to board in both creature-hate and combo-hate. If you can survive until casting Ballista on x=2, the MU is unloseable. Combo not necessary from that point.
That is true indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaono
I board the combo out against non-Tin Fins reanimator as well. There is enough to bring in to slow them down enough that you can swing and get there - especially when they are possibly losing a lot of life to Reanimate itself. I tend to board out Food Chains as well as Ballistas in those matchups. Tin Fins is a little different as there aren't enough targets for Abrupt Decay (e.g. Animate Dead) to matter. They also board into Mentor post board (or at least should be vs. a Force of Will + Deathrite deck), so Ballista is better in that case as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
Going to Vegas this week and wanted to field any last minute advice.
MD:
3 decay
2 thought seize
3 ponder
19 land
Sideboard
3 surgical
1 cage
2 mindbreak trap
1 duress
2 golgari charm/engineered plague
1 Vendilion Clique
2 diabolic edict
1 pithing needle
2 hydroblast
The cards I am most hesitant on are the charm/plague and potential options for hydroblast which might provide better overall coverage.
my board:Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
2 toxic deluge
2 thought seize
1 engineered plague
1 jitte (been amazing)
1 pithing needle
2 flusterstorm
2 surgical extraction
2 grafdigger's cage
1 golgari charm
1 abrupt decay
I hate mindbreak trap, and diabolic edict only beats show emrakul (some rean targets) so I really don't like playing it. cage is for elves and grave. my board is pretty strong against creatures for sure, might be correct for hydroblast to beat red decks and kill an in play sneak attack. Just another jump off point. Good luck in vegas
I like your board in general. A few points though:Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
I've always preferred flusterstorm to mindbreak trap. It has more applications, for instance versus control and show n tell.
I try to fit 2 cliques in my 75 as it usually is good when strix is bad and I dont want to run too few creatures.
Hydroblast. I'm undecided on this one. It's more versatile than chill as it counters sneakattack but does it really win versus burn?
My current SB Looks like this:
18 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Walking Ballista
3 Misthollow Griffin
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Scourge
23 Spells
4 Food Chain
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Manipulate Fate
19 Lands
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thougtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Fatal Push
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Golgari Charm
FoW Count -> 23
It´s super straight forward and focussed on beating creature based MU´s (Elves, DnT, Infect, Grixis Delver) and combo. Only percentage points you give up vs Lands and Reanimator are the loss of Diabolic Edict and Needle (Vs lands) which I´m ok with because I nearly never face lands and we still have enough goodies for the Reanimator MU + Strix stops fatties too.
It´s also ok to play 2 Cage/2 Surgical, in this case I would cut 1 Surgical + 1 Fatal Push/Charm but I really like 4 Thoughtseize + 3 Surgical in Sideboard games so far.
I personally really dont like Mindbreak Trap/Hydroblast because they´re super special and not flexible enough. Edict was also very mediocre for me so far. With this SB you lose some flexibility vs decks like Lands or Sneak Show and maybe less played random decks but gain a lot of percentage vs the common Dtb which I think is more important.
I really like your focused sideboard. A few questions though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
Is 2x fatal push necessary?
Isn't 4x sweepers in delgue and charm a bit too much?
Do you beat burn with this sideboard or is that a matchup you dont care about?
I think I would like to put a needle there somewhere.
4 sweepers are a lot, I agree but it makes DnT, Elves & Infect so much better and I saw this numbers in many other lists as well, only difference was that most of them split the four slots between Deluge, Charm, Plague & DoN.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
DnT & Delver are already slightly positive MU's but not more than slightly, they can definitely win with good draws especially OtP so why not get a bit more percentage to make it very positive especially because they're heavy played?
Infect for example is a tough MU and those sweepers & pushes do wonders here.
I kicked 2 Edict for 2 Push because its strong vs any creature based MU and I had mixed experiences with Edict. Its not really needed outside of Lands/Reanimator/Sneak Show and even if we have the Edict here after a fatty resolved we're already in bad shape because Grizzledaddy draws 7 new cards and start a new combo next turn anyways. Lands is how I said earlier not a MU I face alot and even if so its not unwinnable even without Edict or Needle. But yes the loss of Needle & Edict hurt the MU for sure but well cant have it all.
Well I never lost a round to Burn tbh ^^
I faced it three times vs three different players and always won.
Nevertheless I wouldnt call Burn a good MU and I had many luck in those games for sure but I dont think its super hard. I also dont want to put random junk like Chill/Hydroblast or whatever into my SB just for this MU...2 Flusterstorm & 2 Push are also not nothing...The key in this MU is to combo them ASAP and prevent as much damage as possible from there dudes but I think you already know this. Its just a race and we're also a T3/T4 combo deck with counterbackup.
My buddy Christopher Julian closed out the day at 8-1 on the ol' food chain (no byes either!). Unfortunately he has the worst tiebreakers of all the 24 pointers, but I thought you guys might like to follow along tomorrow :laugh:
Deck is great^^ Keep us updated, I think most of us have to work today ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690