Printable View
Still requires a Skirk Prospector. SGC goes infinite with a Skirk Prospector too, and is a much better card when you don't have the combo assembled.Quote:
Originally Posted by dissy
I honestly don't see Food Chain Goblins becoming a thing. It's too slow to race other combo decks and is just a worse gameplan than grinding it out against fair decks.
I think a good place to start for designing a Food Chain list would be Caleb Durward's Banned Series, where he plays Food Chain Recruiters goblins...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=3lKc-qGfrxI
His list looks a lot like a standard goblins list (23 mana sources, stock core) but he has traded out more of the control elements (Tarfires, Tuktuks) in exchange for more combo elements (Recruiter, Kiki-Jiki, Skirk), and because his build is more explosive he has swapped Vial for the Food Chains.
Caleb's Banned List
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
6 Fetch
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
3 Warchief
3 Matron
4 Ringleader
4 Recruiter
2 Skirk
2 SGC
2 Kiki-Jiki
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
4 Food Chain
Caleb trades out the Wastes and Ports for Ancient Tombs and Chrome Moxen to help the combo go off more quickly. This looks a bit like a Winstigator list, so i think you could cobble the two together pretty easily...
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
6 Fetch
4 Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Chieftain
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Squee
2 Skirk
2 SGC
2 Kiki-Jiki
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
4 Food Chain
I'm definitely missing some removal here, but what this loses in control it makes up for in being able to just end the game. And it still has a super-explosive goblins plan as well with tons of bombs to drop in off of Lackey/Winstigator.
I'm not sure if taking Vial out is a good idea...it's too essential if the foodchain plan doesn't work out, unless you're racing combo, in which case no ports or wastelands = dead. I would remove his 4 recruiter and add in 3 food chain + 1 squee instead. I would also take out the lightning crafter, and 1 of each of scg and kiki and skirk even 2 piledrivers, which would make way for more utility gobs and removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
So something like this
3 Taiga
2 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
4 Wasteland
6 Fetch
4 Vial
4 Lackey
2 Piledriver
3 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Squee
1 Skirk
1 SGC
1 Kiki
1 Tuk tuk
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
3 Food Chain
You might even be justified to run Blood moons since you're already on the Chrome Mox + Ancient tomb manabase
In goldfishing there is one pretty obvious deficiency in Food Chain- without recruiter you really aren't guaranteed a win when you land it. Too many times Food Chain didn't really do anything because I didn't have enough of the right goblins in my hand to go infinite.
i guess the new squee by itself isn't enough to fix that, but we can try to increase the chances to chain the right goblins to combo-of in few ways:Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
-increase the number of goblins as much as we can, so cutting vials became very important. since we need 3-4 food chain, the non-goblin slots woul be up to 8. Since we aim to make a lot of mana vial became less interesting in this built
-reduce the variance with more tutoring power. we could try to play 8 matrons by playing a full set of Imperial recruiters. ok, they cannot be drwan by ringleadres but as 4-of we have good chances to draw it naturally and use to grab and cast ringleader via food chain. moggcatcher cuold be very powerfull, but we cannot activate it with food chain mana, and he have no haste, so is less reliable (but still a chance)
4 Taiga
2 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
6 Fetch
4 food chain
8 matron package (matron + imperial recruiter) [35]
2 squee
4 Lackey
3 Piledriver
3 Warchief
4 Ringleader
1 Skirk
2 SGC
2 Kiki-Jiki
1 Lightning Crafter
2 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
so maybe something like that coud worth a try. and i think i'll do it! what do you think?
29 goblins + 4 recruiter for more tutoring (can also be splittable between recruiter and catcher)
With only 2 gempalm as removal i would cut cut lackey (which will rarely connect) with 1 more chrome mox, 1 grenzo, 2 squee. Grenzo seems interesting here. Maybe one goblin king too...
Sorry to interrupt the Food Chain discussion, but I wanted to ask you MTG financiers here about when and how to get my playset of original copies of Rishadan Port.
I'm guessing I probably need to wait about 2-3 weeks for the new copies to come into the market, right? And I'd like to maximize my trade-ins to save $... out of the below, and as Legacy players, what would you put toward Ports (if anything) and what would you keep?
1 Taiga (Revised)
1 Badlands (Revised)
2 Scalding Tarn (Zendikar)
2 Flooded Strand (Khans)
1 Blood Moon (9th. I own 3. Do I need all 3?)
1 Shattering Spree
2 Defense Grid
If you cant go infinite, you can keep playing the normal gobbos game until you draw something that lets you go off. That's why I'm not a big fan of shifting too far away from the core deck. Food Chain shouldn't be a lynchpin in the deck, there's already a all in Food Chain combo deck that goes off alot more consistantly. IMO it should just be a card that give the Gobbos deck additional explosively and allows big plays that can seal the game. Eg. Matron chain into ringleader into whatever you draw would pretty much seal the game against most fair decks from the board advantage alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
I'll be doing alot of goldfishing once I have the deck assembled.
If anyone's interested, there's a combo kill with food chain that involves having food chain into play, 3 mana in play and only a matron in hand, having to have the 3 other matrons, 3 lightning crafters, 3 kiki jikis and a Goblin Pyromancer in the deck. Swings for lethal.
Don't know if the deck can be improved much with all those slots already set though.
Sent from my SM-J500M using Tapatalk
i'm interested to hear the answer of more experienced fellows too since i'm also looking to buy into some reprinted cards after the release of m25.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis647
anyway after iconic master release i bought the magus of the moon and the price stabilized itself around 5-6€ (from around 10+ in the previous months) in the first days. i think that many people will look to sell valuable cards as soon as they can in order to avoid the market to be flooded by the reprints reducing their chances to actually sell, so i think they'll sell to a good price immediately.
i may eventually be interested in your taiga, but not sure yet.. i'll pm in case i'll need it ;)
???Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Seems to be 1 mana short of casting LC after chaining Matron together. 3 Matrons to Food Chain nets you 3 mana. You need the LC and Matron in play to go off. Did you mean you could do this starting with 4 mana in play?
Correct! Thabks for checking the math for me. Played with it a long time ago and couldn't remember correctly. So you need the 4th land, or any other goblin in your hand to net the +1 mana then.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
I remember doing this over 10 years ago, in a list with mox and Tomb. Went first and cast matron for matron t1, opponent cast t1 trinisphere, and t2 I play food chain and kill him. Good times =D
Sent from my SM-J500M using Tapatalk
If you're going to play a Foodchain list with the new Squee I think 1 Sledder is too good not to use
Even so, I think FC probably requires too many janky cards to be viable, but I could be wrong
Agreed,
I think the build would want to include the following for combo kills
Goblin Sledder
Skirk Prospector
Seige Gang Commander
Lightning Crafter
Kiki-Jiki
Goblin Sharpshooter
Sledder all your guys are huge, you just need to be wider than the opponent and swing for the win
Skirk Prospector enables Seige Gang
Crafter + Kiki is already a combo kill with a sac outlet or food chain
Sharpshooter + skirk/sledder also kills outside combat
You assemble any one of these conditions with Squee Food then you win and they are all great on their own aside from Goblin Sledder who is Sub-Par.
Squee also seems great by himself blocking for days.
Talking with some food chain players they said a lot of their games aren't even about winning with the combo as it is the value of having their griffins all the time.
Then food chain is by itself useless and without squee isn't super strong, but still lets you accelerate decently provided you have goblins in your hand.
Blue decks have to keep their counters in to respect the combo which is great for the normal goblins gameplan. For this reason I would try not to cut vials but it may be the right call.
Since we have to play fetchlands and want to hit 3 mana consistently with minimal wasteland disruption I think 23-24 lands would be correct.
Now do we get to cut Stingscourger or Tin Street Hooligan because the combo makes those matchups better? I think that requires testing, on paper I'd say we still want them in the 75, probably main deck.
Then how many haste lords and which one is best? Warchief mana reduction is great with food chain when we don't have squee, and chieftain is great when we have the combo and get to drop a ton of dudes.
How important is removal if we have a combo kill? Is lackey connecting super important or is it good to just speed up against combo matchups where they have no blockers.
Tarfires or Gempalms? Is DRS a big deal if we have this potential in our deck?
These are the questions I'd start asking myself when building the deck.
I think people are forgetting that with Squee+FC then a matron in hand = 4 matrons+chieftan=at least 13 haste damage attacking. + at least 2 for each goblin in hand+2 for each Kikijiki in your deck. So most of the time you're just going to kill them with your attack step. We only need to do 20, not infinite.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
AND, most of the time we don't even need to kill that turn. Making a wide board of creatures and dealing 10ish damage cleans up most games.Quote:
Originally Posted by egoblinsw
You only need 1 hastelord or to control any creature before the combo turn and then 1 sledder equals infinite damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by egoblinsw
Maybe a combo kill is not needed or this combo is too vulnerable to blockers, but what I was trying to emphasize is that Sledder seems like it should be a priority include before Skirk Prospector + SGC, Kiki / Crafter, etc
The problem with adding sledder is that it's not very powerful in an average grindy game where you don't draw FC+Squee. Most of us are already playing prospector and SGC, many Kikis, and some of us are running crafter. Those cards are all very powerful in non-FC games, which is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
I would say we would need a way to get the infinit mana engine running. And a way to do something with that mana.
Old foodchain goblin, just was a bunch of good stacking the ringleaders and finish in a big swing. OK impossible now.
Lets think of a way to win. Lets say we got FC online and a matron, how can we win with a goblin or lets say we only have ringleaders so we need to find a win option.
OK options with X:
Goblin Dynamo, Warbreak Trumpeter , Grenzo, Dungeon Warden.
Yes Grenzo is black :( BUT with infinite mana he would be the funiest kill :P
I would go for a list not only focusing on FC , just see FC as a alternative way to get bunch of gobos online.
ATM me bit sick and cant think of a nice list , but mby anyone else can :)
Kinde useless post ^^ but we can win with siegegang and just play no other bad goblin
Maybe additional Sting Scourgers?
So you can do Matron > matron.... > Scourger(bounce Matron, tutor up another Scourger)... > last matron trigger go for Kiki (copy scourger, bounce matron)> matron > haste lord. So you end up with 4 matrons, 4 sting scourgers, 1 scourger token and a chieftan which would be 25 hasted damage.
Skirk fire marshall sounds trolly too
edit: Nope...just realized scourger only targets cards your opponent controls...argh