[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

I think when a deck plays veteran explorer DRS becomes less of a need. When you are gsz you mostly want to get a vet anyway. I agree with running only 2.

I love stronghold but I like it more when you have a titan that searches it up. fetching arbor is nice with recurring nightmare though...hmm.. No bstorm to put it back isnt great if you do draw it. Idk, I dont hate it but I dont think I would run arbor. Now if Nissa said find a forest not a basic forest I would really like it.

I would run 1 less sylvan and 1 more top. Better in multiples Though from your posts I know that card is a pretty big love for you and it is amazing against miracles (and against shardless should it stick for a turn).

I would still recommend truth over charm. On that note, Jbone, I know we talked a bit about it last week before you went to SCG and you played 2 tournies with a swap of those card. Any thoughts? I am looking to see how much actual utility the other 2 modes provided you because unless we start to have some data on that I think its hard to know. Either way I think having a 3 mana draw spell is great for this deck.

I also do not totally love needle in the board. I think many times where we want needle deed will also be involved. I would rather not have the situation ever come up.

Hey y'all: debating on coming back to Nic Fit as soon as I'm done building a few Modern decks (Podless Pod and Tasigur Twin to be exact). Thinking of going with a Pod+GSZ route this time while also bringing in some tech from my Podless Pod list via a singleton Taiga and Slaughter Games.

Let me know if y'all see any issues with the maindeck so far:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Eternal Witness
2 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan

3 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Diabolic Intent

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Swords to Plowshares

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold

You're playing Veteran Explorers. Change those StP's for PtE's. No need to give your opponent free life in a deck that durdles as much as Pod Fit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

I land a plague on elves but he crop rotates into a nexus and kills my thru an azban charm with a daze (which I knew about when he tried to daze my decay earlier)

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Decay is still a legal target for Daze, it just doesn't get countered. I guess you let him take it back?

Is there a Abzan Rhino ''default'' decklist (with sideboard list too) to bring in a unknown metagame/legacy tournament? :D

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Originally Posted by Paranoid__Android

Is there a Abzan Rhino ''default'' decklist (with sideboard list too) to bring in a unknown metagame/legacy tournament? :D

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Depends on how big you wanna go.... :cool:

1) Arian's list is very heavy on big fatties.
2) Sdematt's list is a bit less heavy on fatties.
3) Mine is more "midrangy" (with no recurring tools) & very "grindy" with a better G1 against most combo decks.

Pick up the one you like the most.

My list can be found here

I haven't been playing much lately, but this is what I'm running. I don't have Catacombs so my fetches aren't ideal, but it gets the job done. The 2 Hymn to Tourachs and Recurring Nightmare are kind of up in the air and recently added back, so haven't tested with them. I had 2 Restoration Angels originally, and the first match I played after adding them I was able to keep a Rhino alive in response to a removal (I think it was a StP), 6 point life swing then he conceded b/c I was going to swing in for lethal next turn. Seemed legit.

I'm basically trying to figure out what the last 3-4 MD cards are (Angels, Hymns, Nightmare, another Truths?)

tilzinger, what cards are you looking for your mana base that you dont have? If you play in a tourny I am at I may/should have fetches available depending.

Also, run 4 gsz and also run 3 tops minimum. I really do not understand why people are posting with less than 3 tops. Even with library I would still run 3-4. This deck is already fairly high variance and top is the best way to solve that without picking up blue. The hands that have top never look the most broken but they are the ones that have the most staying power.

Just 3-1'd a daily event with this:

http://i.imgur.com/woe8ISY.jpg

I don't know what I should change.

Round 1: Grixis Delver 2-1
Round 2: Storm 2-0
Round 3: Storm 2-0
Round 4: Miracles (MzFroste, who doesn't lose ever, so that's ok) 0-2

Vs Miracles he just countered everything game 1 (I had to be proactive so he didn't just entreat kill eventually), game 2 I accidentally shuffled away a tsunami when his board was just islands, but he was playing at flash speed with Cliques and Entreat so it wouldn't have mattered, he had countermagic up the whole time.

Why are ou on STP and not PTE?

Congrats on the finish!

Also full list would be appreciated since its cut off. Nice job. Too bad the miracles pulled off a.....miracle. Yeah!

Not to detract from ironclad's performance (good job btw), but StP is better than PtE against basic heavy decks (including Miracles if memory serves me right).

Now that my inner Kanye has said his piece, Miracles at it's heart is the classic Draw-Go control. Playing proactively is the last thing you want to do since that's how they want you to play anyway: best bet with your list game 1 is to stick any creature during the first few turns (if a Veteran Explorer, do not pull the trigger of course) along with a Deed for Entreat and give them death by papercuts. If they go to StP or Terminus, just stick another. Jace is problematic of course, but the threat density of Nic Fit matched against Jace's grindy win-con means you could very well use the max hand size and end step of your turn to sculpt your hand/library to be filled with threats to seal the deal.

I understand why ppl like path over stp but I would still probably run swords anyway. These new rhino versions of nic fit are trying to be more aggressive so maybe I am just thinking in the past but life is not really relevant in many matchups where another land "could" be.

If you have both stronghold and tower out you can also beat a jace ultimate. Especially if you have something like tusk to recur that leave a body. I have not done it often but I have beaten jace ultimates. A few times due to this and once by having all four punishing fires and like a million mana. burnt him out from 17. Had to win in my upkeep but whatever....

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

tilzinger, what cards are you looking for your mana base that you dont have? If you play in a tourny I am at I may/should have fetches available depending.

Also, run 4 gsz and also run 3 tops minimum. I really do not understand why people are posting with less than 3 tops. Even with library I would still run 3-4. This deck is already fairly high variance and top is the best way to solve that without picking up blue. The hands that have top never look the most broken but they are the ones that have the most staying power.

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I run 1 b/c I only own 1 :) I have 2 more on my Christmas list for my wife to get me.

Thanks for the offer with the lands. I have neighbor who would let me borrow some Verdant Catacombs if I really needed them.

Here is the full list:


4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top (I want to go up to 4)
3 Swords to Plowshares (I just didn't remember Path to Exiles advantage in this deck, been awhile since I played it so I just defaulted to STP, next time I'll try that instead)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats

Sideboard:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tsunami
2 Krosan Grip
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Thoughtseize
2 Engineered Plague
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Gaddock Teeg

Because if you're trying to Rhino drain them, why give them life? Especially when giving them more lands doesn't matter. You're activating Veteran Explorer - they likely have no more lands in their deck anyway, so it's quite literally a free RFG target creature. STP puts you behind if you're on Rhinotime, and we discussed this about a year ago already.

Against Miracles, that slot is dead anyway. You don't keep STP or Path in, and Veteran is hot garbage in that matchup anyway, which is one of the reasons I've been debating on 3 or 4 Veterans, since I'd rather have DRS.

Overall, I think we're all on similar pages. Rhino is good, and so are Rhino loops.

-Matt

Oh, and wanting to go up to 4 Tops? What you actually want is Sylvan, Deed be damned. You don't truly know power until you Ancestral Recall, going down to 24 life.

-Matt

Did much better tonight at Mead. Went 3-1

Beat an unusual punishing fire pod deck. I paid 9! life to draw 3 cards (Ruric thar was in play) to hit my karakas to bounce him. Sigarda ftw. Priest blew him out when he sacced his finks with pod.
Beat shardless BUG in 3. Nissa top decked very well for me here to draw a deed to reset the board in game 3.
Beat elves in 3 (on camera). I get smashed game one. I get him with canonist and rhino and a 2nd deed game 2. Game 3, mull to 5. Keep therapy, vet, bayou, priest, top? Ended up getting a canonist and flashed in the priest when he tried to gsz for rec sage. rhino beats ensued.

Lost to storm in 2. Mulled to 6 both games looking for interaction. Whiffed on therapy both times. (First time on LED, second game was dark ritual, I believe he had cabal both games)
Maybe a third thoughtseize in the board, perhaps.

Rhino's a tank, yo.

Saddle's waitin'.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Lost to storm in 2. Mulled to 6 both games looking for interaction. Whiffed on therapy both times. (First time on LED, second game was dark ritual, I believe he had cabal both games)
Maybe a third thoughtseize in the board, perhaps.

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Hmm, when facing ANT I usually name Infernal Tutor as a first card. They can have all the mana in the world as far as I care as long as they can't do shit with it. For TES, I'm not so sure what to name first. Might also depend on who's on the play.

I also always name Infernal. Against TES maybe it's B. Wish? Not sure.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I also always name Infernal. Against TES maybe it's B. Wish? Not sure.

-Matt

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Yeah, that's the problem with TES - they run both, since the printing of Dark Petition each as a four-of.

Interesting discussion.

I usually blindly name LED against storm because it is their best shot to kill you T1/T2.
Infernal Tutor is only third, after Dark Ritual.

The reason is twofold:

I have beaten ANT a few times just because my opponents could not empty their hands in due time to cast IT or reach threshold to generate massive mana with their Cabal Ritual

These sole reasons is why I always name LED against ANT / Dredge. Time is key.

If I remember well, Arian is a proponent of naming Dark Ritual first.

I would like to hear your arguments by any mean.


Still, I hate playing against Storm...Bad matchup.

Playing path after a vet goes off is good. I understand that. There will also be games that come up against midrange decks where your removal will be path and having to path a sfm or drs may be worse than stp. I understand your argument and am not saying path is strictly wrong but I do not think its as cut and dry as you say. Maybe not playing rhino I do not realize that getting ppl down to the point that a swords life gain is a big deal, idk.

The right amount of tops is probably 3. That is the amount I played when I was on punishing fire. Library is great, a card that can take over in some matchups. Deed nonbo is not the entire reason I do not recommend playing more than 1 its that I honestly think that top is a better card. Especially if you are playing truths or charm there is only so much life you are going to pay for cards. Top allows for multiple tops in a turn that can and will come up when you sandbag fetches. agree to disagree I guess.

The amount of life I pay for cards per game, on average, is likely over ten life. I typically recall with the earliest Sylvan trigger unless I hit sweet nothing. Rhino offsets and STP are real cards that help you out.

You close much MUCH faster with Path. I think the amount of times Path puts your opponent over the edge are far outweighed by the games where you need to close with Rhino drains, or the drains put your opponent in awkward situations where they can't attack/have to leave blockers/tramplers suck balls for them.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by Ralf

Interesting discussion.

I usually blindly name LED against storm because it is their best shot to kill you T1/T2.
Infernal Tutor is only third, after Dark Ritual.

The reason is twofold:

I have beaten ANT a few times just because my opponents could not empty their hands in due time to cast IT or reach threshold to generate massive mana with their Cabal Ritual

These sole reasons is why I always name LED against ANT / Dredge. Time is key.

If I remember well, Arian is a proponent of naming Dark Ritual first.

I would like to hear your arguments by any mean.


Still, I hate playing against Storm...Bad matchup.

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If I was holding extirpate however, I'd name Infernal Tutor first.

Edit: It's been over a year since I've played Nic Fit (due to stupidities like DTT and TC). Here is my current list:

Creatures (18)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Noncreature (19)
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divinging Top
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abzan Charm

Lands (23)
1 Scrubland
3 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

Sideboard (15):
3 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroblast
2 Extirpate
2 Slaughter Games
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Choke
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Blood moon

I went 2-1-1 last tournament beating RUG, UR Delver-Burn, drawing with Lands (g3 I had a blood moon in play) and losing to shardless. Shardless is usually a good matchup but losing to double hymn isn't surprising (My opening hand would have been an auto-win until it disappeared). The deck felt strong. Abzan Charm is a bit clunky... I'll continue to test it as it performed well despite it's high cost.

Went 2-1-1 tonight at another local shop.

Beat Lands in 3, somehow.
Beat Burning Wish Omni in 3 on a mull to 5 game 3 (kept a rec sage in my opener)
Drew with the knightfall deck. Couldn't find a threat in time game 3.
Lost to infect in 3. Get turn 2'd for 9 with double invgorate AFTER a blind hit one.

Board is currently:
1 Thrun
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Containment Priest
2 Slaughter Games (finally got some use of it vs omni-tell)
2 Thoughtseize
1 Krosan Grip
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered Plague
1 Golgari Charm
1 Dread of Night

maybe a third seize....maybe a blood moon or 2.....not sure

Hello,

Here is my latest BUG control Fit list.

I'd like to throw another wasteland. If anyone has any idea, please share.


1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Grave Titan
2 Baleful Strix
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Golgari Charm
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Painful Truths
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Ponder


SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Trinket Mage
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Thoughtseize

Looking for a two drop abzan creature which preferably should be fetchable with green sun. I already got gaddock main as a one of. I'm thinking about strangleroot geist (because i love this creature) but maybe there is something with more utility or another hatebear. Mainly i am searching for a two drop with some noticable impact.

Thanks for help in advance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dadadot

Looking for a two drop abzan creature which preferably should be fetchable with green sun. I already got gaddock main as a one of. I'm thinking about strangleroot geist (because i love this creature) but maybe there is something with more utility or another hatebear. Mainly i am searching for a two drop with some noticable impact.

Thanks for help in advance.

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Scavenging Ooze is always good post-deed. There's also qasali pridgemage but Reclamation Sage is better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dadadot

Looking for a two drop abzan creature which preferably should be fetchable with green sun. I already got gaddock main as a one of. I'm thinking about strangleroot geist (because i love this creature) but maybe there is something with more utility or another hatebear. Mainly i am searching for a two drop with some noticable impact.

Thanks for help in advance.

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Wall of Blossoms? Scryb Ranger? Skyshroud War Beast seems amusing at times.

For punishing fire builds.....have we used kavu predator before?

Depends what you mean by Rec Sage being better. I think it's minor to be able to hold it until your turn, or just be useful as an exalted-giver until you need to blow it. Not being able to kill Inkmoth is huge in that matchup, and Qasali is better against Sneak.

Up to y'all.

-Matt

Yeah, someone will have to convince me why Rec Sage is better in a Junk build. Its the same amount of mana with either one to destroy something, and Rec Sage can only be done at sorcery speed. Qasali can sit on the board and destroy something at instant speed. Plus the Exalted trigger can be relevant.

The argument is that Rec sage will leave the body around. Where QP will leave play the sage will let you have a body that can be relevant with things like equips and therapy in the deck.

That being said I like pridemage a lot more.

It's also not entirely unreasonable to run both. Having an extra answer to early stoneforge equips, counterbalances, more ways to fuck with miracles' tops, attrition mirror sylvan library, etc. Sometimes you'll run into a matchup where you don't want either of them, but that's what sideboarding is for.

This new card is a very flexible Burning Wish target for e.g. a Punishing Fit list. Care to destroy Young Pyromancer, Deathrite Shaman, a hoard of tokens and Liliana? Or just go for a Jace and a Batterskull?

A bit hard with RRR in the cost when coupled with Burning Wish, and it may turn out to be too expensive to be a viable option. It can be compared to Kolaghan's Command which can also bolt and kill artifacts among other things, but in instant speed which is a huge deal in many matchups (thinking of Death and Taxes where you need to cast it in response to Rishadan Port activations). I think I'll get one just to try it anyway.

http://mythicspoiler.com/c15/cards/fieryconfluence.jpg

Edit: I thought I had it yesterday but at least now the image is appearing.

So I've been playing 4 rhino fit and I have came to some conclusions:
Moar Skillerhino, moar better
Gaddock is main board. Five-ever.
3 vet, 3 Drs seems right.
Shard less is rough especially now they run 4 wastes.
Ajani, mentor could be the card we need. Not the card we deserve.
Nightmare might just be too cut especially when the meta is quick and full of decay.
2 deed could be my next try.
2 path seems right.
cat wizard over Rekt em elf.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

Nightmare might just be too cut especially when the meta is quick and full of decay.

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Are you suggesting they can Decay the Recurring Nightmare?

Cute*

I am saying that many times, playing it and passing is what I'm left doing. It makes it vulnerable. I'm gonna cut nightmare and look at other options. Most importantly, Dragonlord dromoka. More than likely a sigarda as well.
I don't think the meta is slow enough for us to hop on the night(mare) train. ;)

My sideboard is also like 13/15 for combo which is more than likely wrong.
3 slaughter
3 surgical
3 duress
2 hymn
1 chains
1 dryad militant
1 golgari charm
1 cant remember.

Junk fit with a taiga 3 Drs, mind you.

Just 3-1'd legacy daily MTGO with Skillerhino Fit

2 path
4 therapy
3 vet
3 DRS
2 top
1 teeg
1 pridemage
1 scooz
3 abrupt decay
3 deed
1 e-wit
1 pulse
4 Skillerhino
1 garruk, primal
1 Ajani, mentor
1 sigarda
1 thragtusk
1 DL dromoka
4 GSZ

4 windswept
2 wooded
1 delta
2 bayou
2 savannah
1 scrub
1 Taiga
3 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
1 karakas
1 volrath

SB:
3 surgical
3 Duress
3 slaughter games
2 carpet
1 dryad militant
1 golgari charm
1 thrun
1 chains

2-0 Maverick with depths

Not much to say regarding this. I'm the bigger brother and the parents arent home.
Actually brought nothing in. Perfect 60.

1-2 ANT

Game 1 i rip GSZ off the top for teeg, Sheep42 gets salty and says my gg was harassment. I thought it was ironic.
Game 2 i die turn 3, my turn 2.
Game 3 he turn 2s me through a duress.

2-0 Rug Delver

Game 1 he did rug delver stuff and then lost to a DL dromoka . Side note: HAHAHAHAHAHA
Game 2 Carpet catches force. deed gets goyf delver. rhino and ajani clean house.

2-0 Miracles (this was abysmal, my opponent wasn't slow but good god was the match painful)

Game 1 took for all but 5 minutes of my clock. so much deed and entreat posturing. finally drs widdled him down and then he didn't have the counter for a Skillerhino to deal the final 3. I can't lie, it felt good.
Game 2 I had to win in 5 minutes. Games on terminus into Skillerhino into Skillerhino.

Good enough for 3-1

Changes?
SB: charm never came in. not sure what else can go in the board.
MB: Not sure. I know its not perfect but I do not know what to change.
PS: Cabal Therapy is the best discard spell in magic. 4 or go play DnT.

Im gonna run it back next chance I get and think about possible changes
The deck felt good and does hilarious things. I beat an opponent tonight who cast 4 brainstorm and 4 ponder, i still won. Ban Skillerhino?

Let me know if you have any criticisms or questions.