Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quasim0ff
It was pretty interesting to watch the replay of our match from your side ;)
I definitely got lucky in G1, your draws in the midgame were just horrible. Usually it’s really in favor of Miracles, before I get access to my Pyroblasts. I can’t really afford to force or counterspell your Predicts because I’m just cold to Jace or Entreat. That’s the reason I never hardcasted one of my Forces in hand. Maybe I was playing was too scared.
I don’t agree with all your assessments regarding my play though. :P
G2 using the Snapcaster for Brainstorm instead of Decay on your Top was fine because I had a second Snapcaster for REB or Surgery in hand to get whatever you had on top. Also the Clique. It was quite the embarrassment of riches...
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Hey guys!
After some time playing mentor miracles, since almost everyone favors the predict build I decided to give it a spin.
How does this build even stand a chance to beat Sneak&Show with 0 to 1 Vendilion Cliques in the 75?
Thanks a lot!
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
SnT and Sneak Attack must die (/be countered)
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghiwo
Hey guys!
After some time playing mentor miracles, since almost everyone favors the predict build I decided to give it a spin.
How does this build even stand a chance to beat Sneak&Show with 0 to 1 Vendilion Cliques in the 75?
Thanks a lot!
It's a rough matchup, but winnable with some luck. Basically you have to counter the first Sneak/Show and then land countertop before they can cantrip into another one. Luckily we are one of the few decks that can answer an Emrakul but if the Grisel Daddy hits the board at any point we lose.
If you need to hedge against the matchup specifically, Containment Priest is your friend much more so than Vendilion Clique.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Hei guys:)
I ,,won" today a 1k tournament with miracle:)
Well not won a friend and i splittet the final because the price out was enough for bouth uf us:)
He was playing food chain so it would be hard.
6 Rounds and top 8:
2:0 Tezzeretor
2:0 Eldrazi
2:0 B/R Reanimator
1:1 Shardless Bug
1:2 Mirror (so damn close and was really intense)
2:1 Aggro Loam (Basically draw but the board state would win in the next 3 Turns, also he was 3:2 and a friend.
Thanks again luki!)
Top 8:
2:0 DnT
2:1 Mirror( on stream /gameplace 1klegacy lucerne)
Really intensive games and did a small.missplay on g3 with flusterstorm but i was so much in the game.
Final Draw with foodchain..would be nice to play but i think they're favered.
Anyway i can easy pay my trip to mkm series frankfurt and play the superfinals in legacy and modern:))
You can check out the stream on twitch/gameplace lucerne. I will post the time.i play tomorrow and also the list:)
Very nice tournament !!!
Greets Pascal
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FZA
It's a rough matchup, but winnable with some luck. Basically you have to counter the first Sneak/Show and then land countertop before they can cantrip into another one. Luckily we are one of the few decks that can answer an Emrakul but if the Grisel Daddy hits the board at any point we lose.
If you need to hedge against the matchup specifically, Containment Priest is your friend much more so than Vendilion Clique.
I definitely need to obtain at least a rough 40% of chances in the match-up.. Here in Italy S&T decks are all over the place and I can't afford to give it up if I want to play the deck at big tournaments.
Unfortunately even trying to counter the first show is difficult since they have at least a pair of Boseijus after board and 3+ spell pierces/Flusterstorms.
I've played the match-up extensively in the last months, due in fact to its great representation in the Italian fiels, and as you guys more experienced and better players than me surely know, CB is not very good against them, because it just hits cantrips.
Pyroblast is certainly good and so could be Hydroblast, I saw Anders Thiesen tried one in a league he 5-0ed.
Also, EtA is a SUPER cluncky win condition since they run flusterstorm, it requires set up, you certainly don't want it in your first 10 cards, but still you need to present a clock.
I will definitely fit 3 Cliques in the sideboard and see how it goes, they even happen to be good in the mirror
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Baum
It was pretty interesting to watch the replay of our match from your side ;)
I definitely got lucky in G1, your draws in the midgame were just horrible. Usually it’s really in favor of Miracles, before I get access to my Pyroblasts. I can’t really afford to force or counterspell your Predicts because I’m just cold to Jace or Entreat. That’s the reason I never hardcasted one of my Forces in hand. Maybe I was playing was too scared.
I don’t agree with all your assessments regarding my play though. :P
G2 using the Snapcaster for Brainstorm instead of Decay on your Top was fine because I had a second Snapcaster for REB or Surgery in hand to get whatever you had on top. Also the Clique. It was quite the embarrassment of riches...
I didn't realize you were on regular Czech Pile, otherwise I wouldn't have sideboarded the way I did; I assumed you were on some weird BUG control deck with tar pits etc, fromt he cards I saw, meaning I played right into your blast - I had fluster and should just have waited on it, but I assumed you only had counterspells because I only saw BUG fetches, including a catacombs. Game one I fucked up in the end, I pondered into Jace + tarn + Swords and accidently put Jace > Tarn > Swords, instead of Jace > Swords, thus dying to your Drs.
My draws were pretty abysmal I think, and I think I'm a favorite if I realized what deck it was. I also didn't draw a single cantrip until I hit 30th card or something, which was just fucking weird.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghiwo
I definitely need to obtain at least a rough 40% of chances in the match-up.. Here in Italy S&T decks are all over the place and I can't afford to give it up if I want to play the deck at big tournaments.
Unfortunately even trying to counter the first show is difficult since they have at least a pair of Boseijus after board and 3+ spell pierces/Flusterstorms.
I've played the match-up extensively in the last months, due in fact to its great representation in the Italian fiels, and as you guys more experienced and better players than me surely know, CB is not very good against them, because it just hits cantrips.
Pyroblast is certainly good and so could be Hydroblast, I saw Anders Thiesen tried one in a league he 5-0ed.
Also, EtA is a SUPER cluncky win condition since they run flusterstorm, it requires set up, you certainly don't want it in your first 10 cards, but still you need to present a clock.
I will definitely fit 3 Cliques in the sideboard and see how it goes, they even happen to be good in the mirror
I'm no Miracles expert (in here because I'm trying to learn) but I did recently have success with a Goofy Control Deck where my Boseiju plan involved just playing a few wastelands. Obviously I also had 3 Vendilion Cliques, which help in that matchup, but that deck started with no Wastelands and I eventually added two as ways to interact with problematic lands like Boseiju or Dark Depths. I wasn't treating them as ways to manascrew my opponent, so I almost never fired them off early, but you're not actually required to just waste your opponent when you draw them. If your control deck has enough uses for colorless mana there's no reason you can't take a few land slots for a spell that answers Boseiju.
Obviously there are downsides to playing Wasteland, and I'm not saying Miracles needs to adopt it en masse, but if your local meta involves a lot of Boseiju but you want to play Miracles it's not a ridiculous way to answer the card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghiwo
CB is not very good against them, because it just hits cantrips.
If they *do* have the Boseiju and you don't have the answer, countering the cantrips is vital. Don't sell counterbalance short. Sneak and Show is a deck that can have 5 cards in hand and not be able to cast any of them. Cantrips are very important to smoothing out their draws.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ghiwo
I definitely need to obtain at least a rough 40% of chances in the match-up.. Here in Italy S&T decks are all over the place and I can't afford to give it up if I want to play the deck at big tournaments.
Unfortunately even trying to counter the first show is difficult since they have at least a pair of Boseijus after board and 3+ spell pierces/Flusterstorms.
I've played the match-up extensively in the last months, due in fact to its great representation in the Italian fiels, and as you guys more experienced and better players than me surely know, CB is not very good against them, because it just hits cantrips.
Pyroblast is certainly good and so could be Hydroblast, I saw Anders Thiesen tried one in a league he 5-0ed.
Also, EtA is a SUPER cluncky win condition since they run flusterstorm, it requires set up, you certainly don't want it in your first 10 cards, but still you need to present a clock.
I will definitely fit 3 Cliques in the sideboard and see how it goes, they even happen to be good in the mirror
Usually the most importante thing is to pressure them even a little, so plays like t2 Snapcaster as a bus viper in their eotust must be done sometimes in my experience, Snapcaster appears also to be great if they are on the omni plan even with boseiju: they cast S&T with boseiju, you put Snapcaster or everyday other creature with an ETB and if they put omni you can reb/wear omni in resp to your own Snapcaster trigger before they get priority to cast emrakul.
Otherwisw if you e per boseiju the plan becomes to counterspell their cantrips, all of them and away pressure them, generalmente btw the plan is really to Win the first counterwar and lock then in CB top to counter their cantrips, surgical on their S&T or post intuition and containment priest helps out a lot, canonista is not bad at all to slam down so if they cast S&T they cannot start a counter war
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
So here is my Decklist:
// Miracles
// 60 Hauptdeck
// 5 Artifact
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
// 3 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
// 3 Enchantment
3 Counterbalance
// 16 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
3 Predict
// 20 Land
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
// 2 Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 11 Sorcery
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 3 Monastery Mentor
// 11 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
You can watch the stream here:https://www.twitch.tv/videos/135984769
I play @ 8:11 the last Game in the Mirror was already 1:1 and won this intensive game: (I'm the one with the Pimp Miracle xD)
I did a small mistake in the Last Minutes before i win with flusterstorm but i think it doesn't change anything.
I play also a Match against Shardless BUG and drawet with..I'm not sure if i played everything correctly in g2. Sadly he topdecket the Nulled:(
The 3 Mentors in the Sideboard was nuts all the time!!!
Anyway have a nice day!
Greets Pascal
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
How often does it happen that we fuse Wear/Tear?
I mean its cc is now 3 and 99% of the time it either destroys an artifact or an enchantment.
Have you seen Forsake the Worldy? It exiles instead of destroying (white Nahiri and Academy Ruins) and might cycle in case you already have too many Snapmage around.
Definitly to test it.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Poron
How often does it happen that we fuse Wear/Tear?
I mean its cc is now 3 and 99% of the time it either destroys an artifact or an enchantment.
Have you seen Forsake the Worldy? It exiles instead of destroying (white Nahiri and Academy Ruins) and might cycle in case you already have too many Snapmage around.
Definitly to test it.
Objectively I'd still go with W//T because of the lower cost and flexibility. The new card is a bit too narrow and costs too much for an artifact/enchantment removal sideboard slot. If your opponent is running a strategy involving Academy ruins you might be better off boarding in some graveyard hate instead of running overcosted removal that's going to be bad in other matchups.
Also opportunities to 2 for 1 with fuse come up a lot more often than 1%. And when they come up, it usually swings the match in your favor.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
I am afraid you are right. The problem is that we are playing the same list for 5 years. Card more, card less.
The last shock was Monastery Mentor and the falling star of DTT (rapidly changed to Predict).
apart from that, nothing since Avacyn Restored
Anyway, because Hydroblast has become sexier for the new Mentor I think I will instead try Celestial Purge.
This can also hit Bob, Marit Lage, Liliana as well as Blood Moon, YP, Harsh Mentor.
Just Pyroblast would be out of its reach, but 2cc on top is better than 1
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
So Ballista Food Chain is a real deck and seems really good against us (I'd rather play against Aluren and have free Snapcasters than Food Chain). What should we adapt in our SB if this deck becomes more and more popular?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutthroatCasual
So Ballista Food Chain is a real deck and seems really good against us (I'd rather play against Aluren and have free Snapcasters than Food Chain). What should we adapt in our SB if this deck becomes more and more popular?
I haven't played too much against Food Chain, but the key card in the matchup is Manipulate Fate. If they resolve that card, it's tough to deal with all the recurring Griffins but if they don't, the deck is just a bad BUG midrange deck with a combo that's easy to disrupt.
Cards that seem good against them:
Wear//Tear
Pyroblast
Spell Snare
Llawan, Cephalid Empress (mostly joking but she completely locks that deck out of the game and can't even be decayed)
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FZA
Llawan, Cephalid Empress (mostly joking but she completely locks that deck out of the game and can't even be decayed)
They can kill her with Ballista.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thefringthing
They can kill her with Ballista.
Many lists are also playing one copy of the 3 cmc guy.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Griffin is also huge with Misdirection // FoW.
We can expect also 5-6 copies of it..
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
There is two cards to fight : first is Manipulate Fate to prevent the combo plan, and then Shaman to fight creature recursion in case of chump block. Both cards are well handled by the main deck.
Post sideboard, Pithing Needle on Ballista can slow things, but they run 4 Decay to manage it. Revoker is also an option, as it works on Foodchain. I would also say that Angels might be a huge play against Foodchain (if we have time to untapping with 2-3 angels on the battlefield.
But overall it's not an easy MU. Leovold is a real pain for us, and we shouldn't underestimate Foodchain.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pdingo
So here is my Decklist:
// Miracles
// 60 Hauptdeck
// 5 Artifact
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
// 3 Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
// 3 Enchantment
3 Counterbalance
// 16 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
3 Predict
// 20 Land
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
// 2 Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 11 Sorcery
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
1 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 3 Monastery Mentor
// 11 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
You can watch the stream here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/135984769
I play @ 8:11 the last Game in the Mirror was already 1:1 and won this intensive game: (I'm the one with the Pimp Miracle xD)
I did a small mistake in the Last Minutes before i win with flusterstorm but i think it doesn't change anything.
I play also a Match against Shardless BUG and drawet with..I'm not sure if i played everything correctly in g2. Sadly he topdecket the Nulled:(
The 3 Mentors in the Sideboard was nuts all the time!!!
Anyway have a nice day!
Greets Pascal
Hey Pascal, Congrats on your win!
I was just watching the first game of ur shardless match up. At 3:27:16, after you terminus the goyf and leovold, why not leave entreat on top? You can afford to take a hit from the tar pit, EOT entreat for 3 and kill him the next turn instead of letting his AV resolve in the hope of him digging into a maelstrom pulse if any. Just wanna learn more from your line of play and thinking behind it.
