Re: Worst matchup for each deck
You guys are delusional if you think DRS doesn't really hurt Dredge.
Half the time you're on the play and even if you're not DRS lands turn 1 and if the explosive start is there for Dredge you can put it in your own GY to kill the bridges.
Against the Mana-less variant it is THE killer card because they always want to draw and 40% of the time you have DRS sitting there to just eat their plan alive.
Game 1 used to be an almost completely non-interactive romp for Dredge barring an occasional really fortunate sequence of counters that knocked it off the plan. Then game 2 and game 3 gave it chances depending on how hard the opponent had to mull to find some hate.
Now game 1 can turn into a bad run just off the opponent have a 1cc creature blind. Are there ways to get around it? Yeah, Street Wraith can give Dredge a draw in response to the activation and there are other ways also, however the old paradigm where Dredge won 80%+ of game 1's no longer applies and games 2 and 3 have gotten much tougher as well with RiP and Grafdigger's Cage in the mix alongside Relic of Progenitus and the old staples.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FoolofaTook
You guys are delusional if you think DRS doesn't really hurt Dredge.
Half the time you're on the play and even if you're not DRS lands turn 1 and if the explosive start is there for Dredge you can put it in your own GY to kill the bridges.
Against the Mana-less variant it is THE killer card because they always want to draw and 40% of the time you have DRS sitting there to just eat their plan alive.
I can't convince you.
I can just ensure you that im able to beat DRS deck pretty consistently, in my last big event i just beat elves twice, both times played by really good players and both times being otd, and elves IS the best DRS deck vs dredge, they can get it online really fast, they can fetch it, they can activate it multiple times, they run Ooze too and thay can combo on turn 3.
Btw, do you play Dredge at all?
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
I think Terminus is actually to blame for that. And Batterskull/SFM to some degree.
There are so many factors to why Dredge isn't a thing anymore. Terminus and Stoneforge Mystic and so on are the lot to blame, but not in the way that you mean or at least how you said it.
Dredge is fucking old. Future Sight, believe it or not, came out seven years ago and contained Dredge's last relevant batch of cards. Faithless Looting alone is not enough to resuscitate that cadaver. By sharp contrast, Death and Taxes is three years old since its last major patch. Miracles, Elves, and BUG are going on two years. Burn is less than a year old. UR Delver is less than a month old. That's how these things work. Decks that are seven or ten years old (hey, Goblins) and have faced more hate in the past four years than the sixteen years prior combined just aren't able to compete with decks that are still in in shape and up to date.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Noctalor
Btw, do you play Dredge at all?
I hope this gets answered... Based on the last 150 forum posts, it looks like he's a dedicated Team America pilot. There were 0 posts in any Dredge threads.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamajellydonut
There are so many factors to why Dredge isn't a thing anymore. Terminus and Stoneforge Mystic and so on are the lot to blame, but not in the way that you mean or at least how you said it.
Dredge is fucking old. Future Sight, believe it or not, came out seven years ago and contained Dredge's last relevant batch of cards. Faithless Looting alone is not enough to resuscitate that cadaver. By sharp contrast, Death and Taxes is three years old since its last major patch. Miracles, Elves, and BUG are going on two years. Burn is less than a year old. UR Delver is less than a month old. That's how these things work. Decks that are seven or ten years old (hey, Goblins) and have faced more hate in the past four years than the sixteen years prior combined just aren't able to compete with decks that are still in in shape and up to date.
K
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Noctalor
I can't convince you.
I can just ensure you that im able to beat DRS deck pretty consistently, in my last big event i just beat elves twice, both times played by really good players and both times being otd, and elves IS the best DRS deck vs dredge, they can get it online really fast, they can fetch it, they can activate it multiple times, they run Ooze too and thay can combo on turn 3.
Btw, do you play Dredge at all?
No, I beat Dredge about 60/40 with BUG at this point. I used to beat Dredge about 45/55 with Tempo Threshold and felt very fortunate to get there, mainly because of Daze, Counterbalance and Stifle in the mix and then a ton of hate in the SB.
The difference between winning the first game 40% of the time and winning the first game 20% of the time is the difference between the two lists I have played extensively against Dredge. Without DRS I'd be back to blind losses game one except when Dredge fizzled on it's own and then having to win game 2 and 3 off of mulling to hate.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
I hope this gets answered... Based on the last 150 forum posts, it looks like he's a dedicated Team America pilot. There were 0 posts in any Dredge threads.
The Rock (circa 2006), Tempo Threshold (with Werebear and company), Landstill, Dreadstill, Tempo Threshold (Goyf-version), Enchantress Shell, Jund, BUG in various forms. That's basically what I've played in my periodic returns to Legacy.
I've never played Dredge or Storm because I like interactive lists and neither of the archetypes provides much effective interaction with the opponent. I've generally feared Dredge because it is designed to play around any meaningful response from the opponent. That fear is long gone. I'm 4-1 in the last 5 matches against Dredge and the loss was a game 1 blowout which will happen and a mull to 4 in which I not only saw no hate but I didn't see 2 lands until I got to 4 cards. That will happen. I also won a game 3 against the Mana-less variant where I got a cage at 4 cards and locked him out. That same match a DRS locked him out game 1.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamajellydonut
There are so many factors to why Dredge isn't a thing anymore. Terminus and Stoneforge Mystic and so on are the lot to blame, but not in the way that you mean or at least how you said it.
Dredge is fucking old. Future Sight, believe it or not, came out seven years ago and contained Dredge's last relevant batch of cards. Faithless Looting alone is not enough to resuscitate that cadaver. By sharp contrast, Death and Taxes is three years old since its last major patch. Miracles, Elves, and BUG are going on two years. Burn is less than a year old. UR Delver is less than a month old. That's how these things work. Decks that are seven or ten years old (hey, Goblins) and have faced more hate in the past four years than the sixteen years prior combined just aren't able to compete with decks that are still in in shape and up to date.
I think I was addressing his claim that DRS made Goyf/weenie decks go away. But I'm really bad at reading and also writing sometimes so who knows. Also I think the worst part about playing Dredge is that you don't really get to play it. It mostly plays you while you sit there hoping RNG is kind to you that day.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
I think I was addressing his claim that DRS made Goyf/weenie decks go away. But I'm really bad at reading and also writing sometimes so who knows. Also I think the worst part about playing Dredge is that you don't really get to play it. It mostly plays you while you sit there hoping RNG is kind to you that day.
Hah!
In Soviet Russia, Dredge plays you! :tongue:
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Noctalor
I can't convince you.
I can just ensure you that im able to beat DRS deck pretty consistently, in my last big event i just beat elves twice, both times played by really good players and both times being otd, and elves IS the best DRS deck vs dredge, they can get it online really fast, they can fetch it, they can activate it multiple times, they run Ooze too and thay can combo on turn 3.
Btw, do you play Dredge at all?
The one place where I'd disagree with that is that we don't have removal or sac outlets (apart from NO) G1, so can't kill Bridges to slow Dredge down really.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
But I'm really bad at reading and also writing sometimes so who knows.
I'm also really bad at reading and also writing sometimes, and looking back I think this one's my bad, so it's ok. If you want to start a club, I can make a mean grilled cheese for our potlucks.
Anyway, regardless of my interpretation of which part of the post you were addressing, my point still stands. Dredge is an antiquated deck that sorely needs an update in order to be anything close to what people in this thread are chalking it up to be.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Normally I would be upset at such an egregious offense to WORDZ. But I can't stay mad at you. Because I am overweight. And you are a jelly donut.
Edit - I also love potlucks. Because overweight.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
This is the aggregate results for all of the previous responses. the % don't add to 100% because I've omitted decks that are 1% or less of meta... Meta data was taken as of 2014 from MTGtop 8
posted as an image to maintain formatting
http://i.imgur.com/pVz79Xkl.png
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
But I can't stay mad at you. Because I am overweight. And you are a jelly donut.
Edit - I also love potlucks. Because overweight.
I dunno 'bout you, but I feel good about this club.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
This is the aggregate results for all of the previous responses. the % don't add to 100% because I've omitted decks that are 1% or less of meta... Meta data was taken as of 2014 from MTGtop 8
posted as an image to maintain formatting
<img>
Good job.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
I can't stay mad at you. Because I am overweight. And you are a jelly donut.
I think you are being catfished...
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Don't listen to him, Dan. Our love is real.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
I'm beginning to think that my worst matchup is Food because I love catfish too...
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Quote:
Originally Posted by
danyul
I'm beginning to think that my worst matchup is Food because I love catfish too...
Fried or broiled?
The only correct answer is fried.
Re: Worst matchup for each deck
Fried, of course.
And just to keep things from getting totally hijacked, nice table, Mister apple man. I was under the impression that Burn was a huge part of the MTGO metagame right now so that 3% figure is somewhat surprising.
