Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
It is rather annoying that this has happened to blue YET AGAIN. We seem to have this reaction once a year or so. Of course it almost does not matter if it were black or white or whatever. Delve is a mechanic that favors blue so hard the cards would still be in the same deck.
Jelly donut, do you see why Standstill is not pertinent here? You can not profitably plop Standstill into today's top decks the way you can with this card. It is not a useful comparison. I think you knew that too, which means you were just trolling. Let's group hug and be done with it all.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
The only reason I can think why neither card was Black is because Standard would be giving draw spells to decks like Mardu (:r::w::b:) Aggro which is typically not part of the blitzkrieg aggro package (iirc Thoughtcast was regarded as a blunder in this department).
The unfortunate state of newer Magic playing by adjusted rules is that Blue's lack of dominance in Standard means it can get Delvers, Snapcasters and other trinkets without running the other colors out of town. So even if either of these potent Delve cards coulda been Black, they are still rightly placed in Blue for Standard's purposes, and Modern can just put another common on the banlist if it's degenerate there, so.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Finn
Jelly donut, do you see why Standstill is not pertinent here? You can not profitably plop Standstill into today's top decks the way you can with this card. It is not a useful comparison. I think you knew that too, which means you were just trolling. Let's group hug and be done with it all.
I'm an asshole, but I'm not trolling. Your statement was "The one thing blue has never had in Legacy was true card draw.". Standstill alone makes that statement false. If you want to elaborate and say "blue has never had viable non-conditional draw", then maybe you're right, but that statement has no bearing on Treasure Cruise as it is also a very conditional card.
Treasure Cruise is card draw. Yay. Get over it. It's not good enough to be run as an engine and it's easily hated out. Its like has been seen before many times and will be seen again sometime. My only concern with this card, and what I posted when it was initially spoiled, is what BDP said about it being wasted design space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
Yaaay! We're all friends again!
And Starship Troopers fucking rules. :cool:
Ahh yiss. B^)
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
I like impulse impulse (dig through time) much more than treasure cruise. How easy will it be to find a Force of Will PLUS something to pitch for it in response to a critical spell? That alone makes impulse impulse good good. Once you get it online, it doubles as a Counterspell at the least. Then you get all the digging / assembling upside added to it.
Σhttp://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/Kha...rough_Time.jpg+http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/All...ce_of_Will.jpg>=http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/Beta/Counterspell.jpg
Assuming people are correctly assessing how easy it is to set up Delve, and given the fact that Counterspell is a legacy playable card, this must also be a legacy playable card.
If you find 2x or 3x Dig Through time from casting your Dig Through Time, you can ship them to the bottom if you want.
If you draw 2x or 3x Treasure Cruise from casting your Treasure Cruise, you just Tormod's Crypted yourself for nothing (or really banking on Brainstorm to fix you).
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Folks, I tested Treasure Cruise a bit more last night in a silly Kiki-Pestermite deck. I figure it is akin to a weak Show and Tell deck. It gave me the chance to include Faithless Looting. It was insane. I was able to consistently blitz through my deck. They are good even in multiples in this model, as I was just looting to get to the next Treasure Cruise as fast as possible.
I have now tried it in an aggro shell and in combo. Let me go on the record as saying this. The card might just define Legacy. If you aren't using this card the moment it is legal you are doing it wrong.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Finn
Folks, I tested Treasure Cruise a bit more last night in a silly Kiki-Pestermite deck. I figure it is akin to a weak Show and Tell deck. It gave me the chance to include Faithless Looting. It was insane. I was able to consistently blitz through my deck. They are good even in multiples in this model, as I was just looting to get to the next Treasure Cruise as fast as possible.
I have now tried it in an aggro shell and in combo. Let me go on the record as saying this. The card might just define Legacy. If you aren't using this card the moment it is legal you are doing it wrong.
relic of progenitus will make you eat those words. If that does;t, chains of mephistopheles will. if that doesn't, notion thief will.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
So, there are cards in existence that counter this one, so it is therefor not good. Got it. Thx.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
relic of progenitus will make you eat those words. If that does;t, chains of mephistopheles will. if that doesn't, notion thief will.
Except for Relic that is (and was in Merfolk) maindeckable, the others are either too expensive (moneywise), or too expensive (mana cost) or straight unplayable. Also, Chains do nothing against Dig, but at least it stops Looting and such.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Except for Relic that is (and was in Merfolk) maindeckable, the others are either too expensive (moneywise), or too expensive (mana cost) or straight unplayable. Also, Chains do nothing against Dig, but at least it stops Looting and such.
One of the reasons I like Dig more :-)
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Finn
So, there are cards in existence that counter this one, so it is therefor not good. Got it. Thx.
Well, you said define legacy... That's quiet a statement. I think there is enough hate to make sure that can't happen. I mean, otherwise Dredge would be defining legacy as well right?
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Well, you said define legacy... That's quiet a statement. I think there is enough hate to make sure that can't happen. I mean, otherwise Dredge would be defining legacy as well right?
Dredge is much more vulnerable AFAICT.
I posted this elsewhere, but the problem is that I have a hard time coming up with hate cards that actually make playing Treasure Cruise a bad idea. What's the best case scenario for Relic of Progenitus against Treasure Cruise, and how far ahead will that put the Relic of Progenitus player?
As far as I can tell, the best answers that are currently available are generic ones like Force of Will or Commandeer.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rufus
Relic of Progenitus can pressure the graveyard over turns to keep it suppressed so it will take more turns to set up a delve graveyard big enough to cast Treasure Cruise. Once that last card is on the stack, you can pop Relic of Progenitus. Since Treasure Cruise is sorcery speed, there's nothing he can do about it so that Treasure Cruise will be sitting in his hand for another X turns. Meanwhile, the card draw from Relic puts you behind even further, since you've been durdling to get a proper graveyard, all to have it marginalized at the lowly cost of 1 colorless mana.
I thought about Commandeer too as a sideboard card, and that could turn into a hilarious flashback of Shaymora.
IMO Dig Through Time is where it's at. Card quality > card quantity, selection > random, instant > sorcery
Also, Empty the Pits in Pox over Tombstalker
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
i'll probably buy some foil treasure cruises for the artwork alone. probably never use but 1-2 at a time.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Bruizar, I mean it though. The card is that good. We are all going to have to find ways to fight it with Tormod's Crypt, Rest in Peace, Spirit of the Lab, I dunno, Chalice@16 or something. But we will be complaining about it soon enough.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Finn
Bruizar, I mean it though. The card is that good. We are all going to have to find ways to fight it with Tormod's Crypt, Rest in Peace, Spirit of the Lab, I dunno, Chalice@16 or something. But we will be complaining about it soon enough.
I hope we will, I love the new delve cards and I love the fact that legacy is getting more like vintage (e.g. less creatures more utility)! Just keep your eyes open though, because we all know what happened when we were all busy looking at Terminus and Entreat the Angels during the miracle cycle spoiler season.. Price of Bonfire of the Damned jumped up damn hard, albeit not for legacy reasons.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
I'm waiting for some one to cast a chalice for 1 then see their confused look when it doesn't counter the new ancestral.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
I'm waiting for some one to cast a chalice for 1 then see their confused look when it doesn't counter the new ancestral.
How's the ruling for Thorn of Amethyst or Nether Void? Can you pay for that cost by delving extra?
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
How's the ruling for Thorn of Amethyst or Nether Void? Can you pay for that cost by delving extra?
I don't believe so. Don't quote me on that though
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
Relic of Progenitus can pressure the graveyard over turns to keep it suppressed so it will take more turns to set up a delve graveyard big enough to cast Treasure Cruise. Once that last card is on the stack, you can pop Relic of Progenitus. Since Treasure Cruise is sorcery speed, there's nothing he can do about it so that Treasure Cruise will be sitting in his hand for another X turns. Meanwhile, the card draw from Relic puts you behind even further, since you've been durdling to get a proper graveyard, all to have it marginalized at the lowly cost of 1 colorless mana...
The thing is that if Relic of Progenitus is on the field and Treasure Cruise is 'dead' in the hand the CA offsets so - the Relic player is behind by :1:, and it's worse if the player with Treasure Cruise can recover the card value with something like Brainstorm. Similarly, if you're leaving mana open so you can pop Relic of Progenius on reaction, that's mana you're not spending on something else.
We'll see how things shake out.
Re: [Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Dangerous Cards
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bruizar
How's the ruling for Thorn of Amethyst or Nether Void? Can you pay for that cost by delving extra?
Delve says you pay for :1: of the casting cost by exiling so it works for anything that's part of the casting cost. Nether Void doesn't change the casting cost, so delve won't help there. Thorn of Amethyst changes the casting cost, so delve can be used to pay for the extra.
