M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

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Originally Posted by Kanti

edit: I see no love for Teeg.

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Gaddock is too established in the deck to discuss not playing him, that's why there was no comment, at least from me. Plenty of love for Gaddock!

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edit2: I can't help but feel like a Sylvan Library would be very nice somewhere in the MD. It's so damn good for Maverick.

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Sylvan is usually played, but in a Brainstorm build it quickly gets replaced by a Brainstorm. I could see playing 3 Brainstorm and 1 Sylvan, but Brainstorm is no doubt a very very good card. Do as you please!

Thoughts on Phantom Nantuko or Jenara, Asura of War? The bug looks especially interesting at it doesn't die in combat, doesn't die to Bolt, can blank opposing Jittes, combos with the x2 Scryb Ranger, and of course gets tutored by GSZ, has a very chill mana cost if you need to hard cast it, and last but not least is not a legendary. Jenara I am maybe less enthused for, but she looks damn good as well. 3/3 flyer than can be a mana sink can close games out very quickly. Can be an option for racing, or an option against a flipped Delver.

Also I saw mentioned that Tradewind Rider isn't good against Delver. Am I wrong to think it's decent? 4cc creature that can't be Pierced, can block a flipped Delver as soon as it comes into play, and proceed to bounce them next turn while chumping Nimble. Shalai's Ivory Mask effect is damn strong, so I can see how she is better, but Rider looks alright against the fair-decks while maybe coming online fast enough against SnT or BG Depths. Atraxa might be better than both, seeing as it's a bomb on it's own, and can be accessed with GSZ.

side note, Revoker might be a better hate bear than Meddling Mage g1. You can hit all sorts of shit, and more importantly you can hit something thats already on the field causing you trouble, rather than top-decking a Mage at some point through the match, or really needing to be able to Fauna-tutor up a Pithing Needle on-legs. And... the mana cost is more chill to boot!

I feel like TNN and Atraxa are just better cards to have in similar roles to Phantom Nantuko and Jenara.

Tradewind is ok against Delver...it has 4 toughness which helps a lot. It also costs 4 however and the most common build of Delver atm is RUG and resolving 4drops past Wasteland, Stifle, Daze and FoW is hard. If I do get to resolve a 4drop, I'm much happier with it being Atraxa or Shalai...

Revoker hitting things already on the Battlefield is great. It also stops Jitte which is always a massive bonus...While I do play both main, I don't think Revoker or Meddling Mage are cards you have to play in the MD.

What you have talked about repeatedly is the lack of GSZ targets and I agree there are a lot of creatures it can't get, but I feel there's still more than enough that it can. Essentially you can go X=0 for Arbor, X=1 for a dork, X=2 for Fauna/Ooze/Scryb/Teeg/Pridemage, X=3 for Rallier/Leovold and X=4 for Atraxa...that seems easily good enough but trimming any of those options quickly makes the GSZs worse...

Revoker/Mage, you don't need to run one of these MD. But if I had to run a x1 hate-bear (meaning I'm not going to consistently draw it) and have to consider the fact that my deck runs Fauna Shaman then I am probably running Revoker. Chances of me resolving my 1-of Meddling Mage, or 1-of Thalia if I run her, and it having an impact are small. Being able to tutor up Revoker to deal with anything that my opponent wants to resolve, or more importantly has already resolved, in the mid-game feels like a much better option.

I don't run Atraxa or Rallier. You could imagine without those my options are a little more limited. Care to tell me why you love Rallier so much actually? I am interested in testing it. Seems like a damn good 2-for-1 and is probably better than beater #2. I run Meren, but sometimes GSZ for Meren is not what I want, because sometimes I want to GSZ for a big-fat threat (I think this is where Atraxa would come in). I think TNN is for sure better than Phantom Nantuko, and maybe Brightling is even better than Nantuko though it's mana investment is crazy. I don't think they are exclusive though. Here's the creature package that I'm running. I cut a BS to fit in the Nantuko, so 4 Vial, 3 BS, 2 AD, 2 StP, 1 Jitte for non-creature spells, 17 lands.

Whoever added Pontiff to the main-deck, bless you. If every card was as good as Pontiff has been to me I wound't even need to post on this finger-painting forum. Every time I've resolved it I have won.

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Phantom Nantuko
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Atraxa, Smasher of Delvers
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Glen Elendra Archmag

edit: still no love for Spell Queller as that card has only caused me pain. I started testing this deck with the x2 StP version though and they have been absolutely amazing for me thus far. Having only 2 removal spells in the vein of AD is too few for me, so bumping it up to 4 and letting me actually blast some Mirran Crusader off the field before he bashes my face in feels great. Would not cut the x2 StPs for more critters just yet. Maybe, maybeee, I'd test cutting 1 for a Shriekmaw so I can Fauna Tutor up some sexy-ness and enter Magical Christmas Land when I chain Shriekmaw with Meren? Pretty sure thats getting ahead of myself, and also pretty sure the non-black clause matters a lot in Legacy.

Is Pontiff still good now, since that D&t is already good and grixis is down a bit i think?

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Originally Posted by Memories of the Time

Is Pontiff still good now, since that D&t is already good and grixis is down a bit i think?

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DnT a good match-up sans Pontiff? I don't think so. With it? Yes, if your Shaman doesn't get Revoker'd and you get to untap and hardcast a Pontiff that should pretty much be GG. The card is a true silver bullet. Lock n' load, aim, and fire at any nearby Elves player for a concession.

side note: Nantuko been doing better than I expected so far. Used it once to make itself a monster 12/12 under a Peacekeeper, and another time to grind hard against RUG, fetching it with GSZ.

While Pontiff is obviously amazing, DnT is still a fine matchup without. Really depends on the skill on both sides...and obviously sometimes they'll have draws that line up with your draws in a way that means you can't cast spells. But you have some pretty unfair cards for the matchup like TNN. The only way you lose is Jitte and getting Waste/Ported out of the game...

But have always thought and still think Pontiff is great. Yes, Young Pyromancer is mostly gone, but it seems there are at least as many TNNs running around out of Blade decks. Also now kills the mana dork out of decks like Bant Blade where it used to not kill the mana dork everyone played (DRS). Also kills baby Mongeese, baby Delvers, random Strixes and Snapcasters, Goblin tokens out of Storm decks, Goblins, Elves, DnT and Maverick creatures, ...

Growing Nantuko under Peacekeeper sounds great but I guess with Shalai you already have a way to do this anyway (plus added protection for your Peacekeeper) and you can just make a lethal TNN...have done this before, it's fun ^^ It sounds good vs. RUG, being Zenithable is obviously a big plus and being at X=3 vs. X=4 for Atraxa does matter. Still think Atraxa is better to have though.

Oh, and I really like Rallier because it let's you reuse things, gains tempo and is a 2 for 1. I started off with an Eternal Witness, but that feels too clunky without Aether Vial in play. Perhaps if you play Swords to Plowshares Witness is better in your list, but Rallier has always been solid for me. Easy to get Revolt with Scryb Ranger often just in case you didn't see that line ;) With Meren being an option now that DRS is gone however, this might just be replaceable (Meren is in my SB right now) although I'm wary of going up to 3 MD 4drops and Atraxa and Shalai are definitely higher in the pecking order for me...

I'll take your success with StP as a reason to try the card. I'll have to figure out how to fit them in though. I've tried Shriekmaw and it has issues, not hitting Angler or Revoker are the main 2...I also tried Reflector Mage in this slot, which wasn't outstanding either. So hardremoval will have to come from spells for now, unless I somehow like Stalking Leonin? I could try that one ^^

Thoughts on playing a Peacekeeper in the maindeck? Obviously a bit meta dependant, but it is good against a whole lot of the field. It has some really good synergy with Meren, allowing us to basically lock our opponents out of combat while we are able to attack. That's susceptible to graveyard, so we could also just keep the Peacekeeper around and buff our team with Shalai or buff up a Nantuko to a 20/20 trampler. Getting out Scryb Rangers here to support a MoM is usually very important, as your opponent will be building up to x2 removal to try and play around MoM. Maybe I'm getting carried away, but it seems very strong against some of the fair decks in the format and well positioned against the three premier combo decks of the format right now: UB Reanimator, Sneak and Show, Turbo Depths.

Think I was questioning why we needed Brainstorm in this deck, and cut down to 3 copies and was feeling okay. I decided to be risky and cut down to 2 copies. Don't think I'll be doing that again, but I also don't think I need the full playset. 3 is my schweet spot.

I haven't played against a BMoon deck yet, but I do wonder how that will roll. Something tells me being on the play and fetching a basic Forest->1cc dork is very important, and having a hand that doesn't force me to GSZ into a dork is probably equally as important so I can save it for Qasali. I also think this is a match-up where Sage>Qasali all day long. What do you guys think of Sage>Qasali md? Probably a bad choice, as it can be great vs Stoneblade to GSZ out, but you open yourself up to Daze a little more. Seems a little better against Counterbalance, and obviously better against anything BMoon, and can't get Revoker'd. No mini-combo with Meren is a bummer, 3cc is a bummer, and no exalted is bad too, so there are downsides. I'm sure this has been brough up x100 times in the Maverick thread as well.

Reflector Mage sounds like a killer card! That is a valuable effect to have on tap with Fauna Shaman. Might be worst shaving down to a singleton Swords for that one...

MD Peacekeeper is perfectly reasonable, obviously meta dependant as you mentioned. I agree it's fine against a large part of the field.
Never really thought of the Meren+Peacekeeper soft lock, requires you having 3 experience counters though (or vial) and with a Meren surviving and reanimating up to a 3drop every turn you should be able to win pretty much regardless what you're getting back. Still cool though ;)

Brainstorm is really just that good. This is legacy after all ^^

In Blood Moon matchups Vial is easily the best card. But yeah, Forest into Dork goes a long way and having a single G available is enough to Zenith for a way to remove Moon.
Not sure on Pridemage vs. Rec Sage either, I currently play the Pridemage main and the Rec Sage in the board but I guess which one is better depends on the exact application. My reasoning is that Pridemage is a better card in situations where you don't need to use it thus it's main for me and Rec Sage has some key advantages and should always have a target in the matchups you're bringing it in so should be the better creature to come out of the board. But I could be wrong...

Was jamming vs Elves and the lock came up a bunch, mostly because I didn’t know how to close the game out. Teeg stops NO, Leo stops Glimpse, but I don’t run Meddling Mage to stop hardcast Craterhoof. Peacekeeper is a nice way to run out 1 piece of hate instead of having to assemble Voltron against them.

Walking Ballista has gotten no mention here. Seems like an extremely good card, amazing tech vs any MoM deck, and could potentially get pumped up faster in our deck via Birds+Ranger. Don’t know where I would fit in, maybe somewhere in the main, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

Peacekeeper usually comes and goes in my decks. Having a tutorable, viable Ensnaring Bridge is great. When I use it, I tend to follow up with Meren and a Fauna Shaman then tutor for and play about 2 creatures a turn until I can alpha strike the opponent, but if you have evasion you can let the Peacekeeper die and attack every turn, like you say. I would first try to get some protection into play, like a Glen Elendra and whatever is relevant for the matchup, but then using Meren either way tends to lead to a win.

I prefer Qasali over Reclamation Sage (in the maindeck and in general). The major advantage is being operable at instant speed, this can be good vs e.g. Inkmoth Nexus, Batterskull, occasionally a LED from storm can be destroyed while they are playing things out. Second advantage I think is the offensive value, both hitting for 3 at 2 mana and boosting creatures with evasion through the Exalted ability. Third I think is the great interaction with Meren. Fourth could be that you have the option to play the Qasali proactively and start attacking while waiting for a potential target. Reclamation Sage could be played over a second Qasali, personally I tend to have it in the board if I play it (as a third Qasali, usually). Sometimes there's a Needle or Spyglass on Qasali and then having a Reclamation Sage can be good.

Walking Ballista works, but it always seemed too inefficient for me [edit: it's mentioned at 6 places in the primer though, plenty of potential synergies such as Grand Architect and Glissa, the Traitor]. Also it doesn't work with Meren. You can test it, there's nothing wrong with it. I'd only play it if I was playing some extra mana generation in the deck, like Rofellos or Cradle. Mother of Runes is not typically a big problem. We tend to have the Mother advantage due to Scryb Ranger, we also tend to have Pontiff to clear opposing Mothers. Key to winning vs DnT by the way, I think this may have been discussed here recently, is getting rid of their Jitte and Vial.

Great to see you trying things, Kanti!

Edit: I added Phantom Nantuko to the primer. It's an interesting card, though I'm not sure if it'll be worth it over other options. It can grow quite a lot with a Ranger, it's a spirit so it may have some tribal synergies (with Mausoleum Wanderer mainly) and it can also benefit from some +1/+1-counter synergies (like Winding Constrictor or Zameck Guildmage).

Had a nice 3-1 run in the LGS weekly event, same list basically with a few sideboard updates. No time for details I'm afraid but here are the results:

List:http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1051094

R1: 2-0 vs Grixis Control
I get lucky. In g1 he stops on 2 lands for a while which lets me build a substantial board presence. In g2 I think he double hymns me and I draw into Mother, Kambal, Leovold. Which he doesn't get rid of.

R2: 2-0 vs Steel Stompy
I draw insane amounts of removal (2 decay for chalices, stp, qasali, gsz for qasali, jitte with counters). Second game similar.

R3: 0-2 vs BUG Delver
In g1 he FoWs t1 Vial then Wastes, Dazes and pushes all my mana sources.
In g2 i draw like 12 mana sources and 5 other cards, almost stabilize. No Brainstorms or Mothers I think in these games.

R4: 2-1 vs Miracles w Counterbalance and Back to Basics
Lots of Counterbalance, Councils Judgement and Back to Basics from him and lots of Gaddock, Glen Elendra and Shalai from me. Didn't get to Vial much, unfortunately.

SMall repport:
https://www.screencast.com/t/H2iUT4eCke
Inspired by @pettda a legand in the stockholm Legacy commmunity known to have blackbelt in special creature deck often makeing the top 8. Normaly i offten like to paly blue white taxes or green white taxes. Got inspired by the MOST. So i when to look what Dan has built and took some lessons from mirrage era morphed it whit dans verison of the deck. In the end it become a 5 color deck, totaly kicked it as when mana allowed it to.

1:
WIN 1 - 0
Vs mox dimond, chalise, punishing maverikish black planewalkers deck.
Hard matchup some how i navigated out a ttn and equipments ager 40 minutes i stole the game aways
and we draved due time.'
2:
Win 1- 0
Elvis (mkm winner Linus)
I started land b.o.p, whit (pontiff and granger guildmage on the hand) plus qurion ranger-
he made super turn but could not go of so i sweeped the board, and got the granger controll plus played a second pontiff later. Very long game, i collected all the pices, to protect my self like after 40 minutes he concided.
Second game i got a enenering plague trun 2 and loats of hate so still i won
3:
Lost 0-2
nible stifle(viktor noremark)
first match Did not play tight at all and basicly give hi mthe match, he stffled faunashamna trigger never fun, plus hade more pressure
Next match hade maasinghand depenig heavy on the vails i got in opening hand but he played Nullrod turn 2 and killed my plan never got back the cotnroll and whit 3 tarmagoyf he kille me right in time before i would emty hees greave yeard
4:
win: 2-0 strom oliver.
He when to goblin i hade the pontiff + saskia the U, for 18 in one hit
i whent for leovold plus + cannonist R.I.P

Vey chanlanging deck to play quite mana heavy but i love tool box so this deck is for me i will develop over time.
Ps my spelling suck do not hate :)
decklist
https://www.screencast.com/t/H2iUT4eCke



18point of damage
https://www.screencast.com/t/1N8WjvYmEt

draw 4 cards
https://www.screencast.com/t/4vEIH4c8k5bq

Thanks for sharing, Cermak! It's impressive how you 3-1 with the deck without even playtesting it (except for a few games just before the tournament if I got it right) and with your own unique twist of the deck. Both elves and punishing loam are tough matchups..

Cool thing is that another local is about to test the deck soon and he has a very unique twist he's brewing.. More on that later!

Nice list Cermak. Been wanting to test SFM myself for a while too, it looks very strong. Fetching a Jitte to beat up creature decks with, or a SoFi to put some real pressure on Miracles looks to be damn good. Having access to SoLaS seems damn good too in this meta, Grixis control is real. I upped my Jitte up to 2 in testing for some games and really liked it. Going back to 1 and running a Sword+2 SFM is a very good option though. Takes up two more slots, sure, SFM is damn strong. Fauna->SFM against fair decks also becomes something that you coudn't do before, allowing Shaman to basically fetch out Jitte. Also love the Sylvan Library, it's a card I think this deck should really be using and abusing. Palace Jailer MD seems gravy as well. It's another removal, and Monarch can offer just as much CA as Meren. I've been thinking of replacing my Meren with a Jailer MD, but haven't gotten around to testing it yet. How has x1 Leovold done for you so far? I like Leovold, but a lot of times I find myself fetching for something else, or have wanted a different natural draw. Woudn't be against cutting down to x1 Leovold personally. What I REALLY want another copy of is TNN. Thing is a beast.

Sad you lost vs Stifle Nought. Peacekeeper maindeck seems VERY strong there, provided you have a MoM to back it up. Null Rod seems very hit or miss. You got hit, but I can imagine lots of hands where it does nothing until you can deal with it.

here is my list that I have been testing. Buying into MTGO soon... think I'm going to build this thing as I have been having quite some fun playtesting with friends. Hope I will have some more to post in the future!

4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Peacekeeper
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Brainstorm
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Tropical Island
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
1 Tundra
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Faerie Macabre
1 Containment Priest
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Walking Ballista
1 Palace Jailer
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Bitterblossom
3 Thoughtseize

Replaced a Meddling Mage with Sanctum Prelate #2 in the side. Prelate is basically a better version of Meddling Mage. If you were going to name Bolt, Path, etc with Mage, just set your Prelate to 1 and be done with it. If you were going to name SnT, set it to 3. Were going to name Terminus? Yeah, set that thing to 6. Macabre has been an all star for me so far, extremely versatile card. It obviously hits Reanimator, but it's also great against PFire, Storm, Snapcaster Mage, Zombardment. Bitterblossom is there for the extra grindy match-ups, Miracles and Grixis Control. A steady stream of 1/1s is nothing to sneeze at. Walking Ballista is a versatile little card as well. I'll just quote Jeff Lu on it real quick:

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It’s primarily for the mirror and decks with Baleful Strix, but there are also a number of decks where you’re happy to have a 2-mana removal spell for 1-toughness creatures. I board it in against Delver if they have Young Pyromancer, Bomat Courier, or especially Grim Lavamancer; it’s also strong against Infect, 4c Loam, and Elves. I also board it in against Miracles; games go long and they usually play around Wasteland, so having a card you can dump 8 mana into later on is pretty potent. It also punishes Miracles players who’ll go to a low life total against D&T, assuming you won’t have any way to win after they stabilize.

Ballista is just a really powerful, flexible card, and I think having access to 1 in the 75 is pretty mandatory with Recruiters. It does a lot more than you’d expect it to. For example, I had originally planned to board it in against Josh Utter-Leyton in the finals, boarding out all my Thalias, but convinced myself that I still wanted some Thalias on the play at the last minute. But if I’d had Ballista in my deck, I would have had an almost deterministic win with Recruiter of the Guard instead of needing to sweat my Palace Jailer draws.

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I've tested it myself and really like it. It's not a silver bullet against a lot of decks, but it helps us get there. Past that, I replaced a Qasali in the main with a Sage as I found myself fetching Qasali only when I needed to blow something up on board, and most times that I hard cast it I had something to hit immediately. Given that I'd rather have a 2/1 around afterwards than some magical Christmasland Meren+Qasali combo (never got that going).

ps: thanks for teaching me how to quote, dude.

Welcome Cermak and congrats for your start with the deck =) Interesting list, i don't understand Saskia... it has been worked well for you? When do you want to tutor for it?

@Kanti: I think that matchup was Nimble Stifle, that is BUG Threshold, not Dreadnought. Anyway..

Sylvan Library is quite often played, yes, and I agree it's great. With Grixis Control and Miracles being popular maybe we should even play two copies.. [Edit: but Brainstorm fixes otherwise impossible starting hands like with one land only or very clunky hands, also fixes late game flooding.]

Stoneforge is great and playing two can be ok, depending on what you want to be doing and what the meta looks like. You could argue it's played over Brainstorm in Cermak's list. You mention you want Sword of L&S vs Grixis Control, and it could be great but I've noticed before how Stoneforge decks become worse when Kolaghan's becomes more popular, so maaybe it would be wise to lower dependency on artifacts. Actually enchantments have been more the way to go for the past year or so, I think Bitterblossom and Sylvan are probably stronger options vs grixis control.. On the other hand it does offer serious card advantage. Like Meren, but on an artifact. Thinking of it, Meren is more accessible and easier to protect with Mother.. Edit: actually the protection it provides makes the sword very valuable vs Miracles, Grixis control and DnT and these are all very popular decks right now, I'll consider playing it next to Meren..

I agree that the Jailer is a very interesting option, too..

Edit: I feel like Meren gets active with a Qasali in the graveyard consistently in the matchups when I want it, nothing magical-Christmassy about it in my experience. But if you prefer maindecked Reclamation Sage then go for it.

Edit 2: It would be really sweet if you could record some of your MTGO-adventures once you get there, Kanti!

Ok, so, i've made my first three leagues on MTGO with the deck with this list https://deckstats.net/deck-16789974-...dcefa2e9b.html

I've made 2-3 three times, obvs. Too many games lost by my mistakes, i've to admit it, i've lost like 6 games for them between my errors and missclicks (eh, i know): i've played only the last league without clear errors, and the variance has obviously stroken me harder <3

Vial has been the major point in these games, and i'm questioning again what is their net benefit. I've already lost two games for topdecking them with an active fauna, and in the current meta i don't see enough mass sweepers (except for Miracle and Grixis Control) to have to keep them without doubt.

Vial is also great vs RUG Delver or any Delver deck really. And vs Lands. Probably vs dnt and goblins too.. And vialling in gilded drake, gaddock, canonist, spell queller, leovold, glen elendra or shalai can be very good vs combo decks too.. Well, nothing new really. Strangely enough I didn't have problems with Vial being a dead draw for a long time.

Really nice to hear that you are testing it, especially on MTGO. If you could record it or stream I'd like to watch some.

I think 5 anti graveyard cards in the sideboard is a bit much, I usually like 2 leylines and eg flusterstorm can also stop an early reanimation attempt but has overlap vs combo. Or invasive surgery that is great vs combo and a hard counter vs ellves and miracles..

How was retainers and iona? I miss Meren there.. And if playing retainers I'd put elesh norn in the board.

Question, why no one is considering the legendary Volrath's Shapeshifter?
Of course fauna is too bad to go full enlish breakfast, so the combo options are limited, but the card, while in play, should allow to freely "cast" at instant speed whatever is needed.

Maybe the opponent gets to interact with it too easily, but I would still give it a shot