[New Card Discussion] Extirpate

@ Cavius

No matter how bad would they be, they understand the effect of 'remove everything annoying from the game'. I still remember the day that bad people thought the Denying Wind to be busted and made geddon + wind decks when they saw spoilers. Looking at people's library and take the card is what semi-good people likes the most.(extract anyone?)

@Tacosnape

So it is cremate on crack. Is cremate maindeck material? Needle just sits there and generates virtual card advantage, while the card does not. The reason that no one mentioned the function to mentioned is that is it very marginal and is not considered as something that is worth a slot.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Bet you a playset of Extirpate's it goes above ten within a couple months and stays over ten for a year.

Seriously, though, the fundamental point everyone misses is that the grand searching through Libraries/Hands/etc. is a secondary ability of the card. For one black mana, it gets all copies of a card out of your opponent's graveyard, and it's uncounterable. It therefore fits into most mana curves very nicely, and can do small duties such as foiling a Witness trigger, picking off a Flash of Insight, getting Akroma out of Reanimator's Graveyard, Slaughtering Ichorid, getting Wasteland out of the Crucible/Wasteland lock, getting rid of Squee, and so forth. The most important part of this card is that it gets a problem card out of a graveyard at split second speed for a single mana and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. This will, as its been mentioned, see play in four formats.

I say it'll settle around $12-15. It's still not Pithing Needle.

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Yea, I guess you know everything, huh Taco? That's probably the same reason Life from the Loam is still a $5 dollar card and has been for the past year and a half.

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Originally Posted by Cavius The Great

Yea, I guess you know everything, huh Taco? That's probably the same reason Life from the Loam is still a $5 dollar card and has been for the past year and a half.

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LftL is not very flashy. The power of the card only becomes evident after one see the card in action. Returning bunch of land is not an ability that appeals to semi-good people. It also is one of the cards that is not utilized in T2. Expirtiate, on the other hand, has more effect upon first glance.

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Originally Posted by C.P.

LftL is not very flashy. The power of the card only becomes evident after one see the card in action. Returning bunch of land is not an ability that appeals to semi-good people. It also is one of the cards that is not utilized in T2. Expirtiate, on the other hand, has more effect upon first glance.

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And that explains why Life from the Loam is $5 bucks to this day? Pithing Needle is an artifact which is the main reason it is so valuable, you can play it in any deck. Extirpate isn't any different from LftL, they both required colored mana thus making it not as universal as Pithing Needle and other similar staple artifacts. That is the main reason that Extirpate will follow the path as the dreaded Life from the Loam when it comes to monetary value. Maybe in a few years from now, I can definitely see Extirpate being a $15-$20 dollar card, along with Life from the Loam. But that is only because the card will be out of print for a long period of time making them more scarce and harder to find.

I honestly can't see Extirpate becoming an OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE kind of card. It has its uses, but it certainly is not a godly card.

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Originally Posted by Cavius The Great

And that explains why Life from the Loam is $5 bucks to this day? Pithing Needle is an artifact which is the main reason it is so valuable, you can play it in any deck. Extirpate isn't any different from LftL, they both required colored mana thus making it not as universal as Pithing Needle and other similar staple artifacts. That is the main reason that Extirpate will follow the path as the dreaded Life from the Loam when it comes to monetary value. Maybe in a few years from now, I can definitely see Extirpate being a $15-$20 dollar card, along with Life from the Loam. But that is only because the card will be out of print for a long period of time making them more scarce and harder to find.

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LftL also requires the deck to be taking advantage of land recursion. Would you play a random LftL in your green aggro just because you hate LD? Extirpate is totally different, and more flexible in many ways.

@cait_sith

I agree with you. But majority of people who shapes single price would not think so for first couple month.

I figure I'll throw my opinion on Extirpate out there.

I doubt it is main deck material in most decks (probably decent in a couple though). It is a powerful and most importantly flexible sideboard solution. If you are going into an unknown metagame or often play in a very random of varied metagame then it can be pretty useful in games 2 and 3 especially when coupled with counters or discard.

Sure it doesn't answer all problems and is a poor answer to some, but it will be somewhat helpful any many matchups.

Arcanix

There is a point that hasn't been mentioned yet to say why Extirpate is so great.


Usually if your opponent is playing a non aggro deck, you might not know what he/she is running, this card will let you know. If your opponent does something to put a card into their grave, like a fetch or something, you can find out what he/she is playing instantly, and often before your second turn.

I have played games where I've duressed a person, and their hand did not yield much info. (They weren't playing a mainstream deck.) I then went on to win the game, and not know what to sideboard. It could hurt if he sideboards and then wins the next game, and I get unlucky after I sideboard for game 3 and he wins that one. When if I knew what he was playing, I could have sideboarded and had a 50/50 chance, thus meaning I would win one of the two games statistically.


Being able to search an entire deck will let you know everything. You get to see hand, grave, and deck for 1 mana, and it can't be countered. Extract use to do this, but isn't as good as this, this grabs up to 4 cards, and looks at hand. You then know how to sideboard exactly, and play the 1st game. You know exactly how many of each card, and how to play around them.

The Biggest reason I think they printed this card is Martyr. FNM players do not want to play against Martyr decks as it takes the fun out. They give this card the ability to smash martyr tron as once there martyrs are gone they are doomed. All other formats are just a rollover for this card.

Seriously, I cannot believe they print this card. A 3CC or without Split Second would be reasonable.
However, I like the fact they are 1CCs, since I am crazy about abusing Chalice of the Void, while it can perfectly fit in Loam deck.

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Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc

Seriously, I cannot believe they print this card. A 3CC or without Split Second would be reasonable.
However, I like the fact they are 1CCs, since I am crazy about abusing Chalice of the Void, while it can perfectly fit in Loam deck.

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Loam will certainly need to adjust to this card. For one, any build not playing red should be. Burning Wish is your best solution. Chalice set at 1 is also pretty hot but I love playing Exploration way too much.

Yea the ability to look through to opponents library for one mana is pretty overlooked. It was one of the best features of Extraction.

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Loam will certainly need to adjust to this card. For one, any build not playing red should be. Burning Wish is your best solution. Chalice set at 1 is also pretty hot but I love playing Exploration way too much.

Yea the ability to look through to opponents library for one mana is pretty overlooked. It was one of the best features of Extraction.

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...Except that Extraction was near unplayable. Looking through the opposing deck is cool and all that, but what is still in question is weather the card deserves a slot or not.

So the card is cremate + extract on crack. Two marginal abilities put together in a single card with a bonus. So is this card really good?

Using duress on high tide or something else, then extirpate. That's good against solidarity.

You know, looking through a deck dosen't actually do anything. It dosen't change the board position and probably won't do anything to affect your opponents game plan. If its a bad match-up, you're still likely to loose, and if it's a good one, seeing the deck dosen't change that. All this does is let you know how to sideboard, which you should be able to do without this. Spending a card to do this seems like a huge waste, and it's certainly not a good enough reason to main deck Extirpate.

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Originally Posted by Xero

You know, looking through a deck dosen't actually do anything. It dosen't change the board position and probably won't do anything to affect your opponents game plan. If its a bad match-up, you're still likely to loose, and if it's a good one, seeing the deck dosen't change that. All this does is let you know how to sideboard, which you should be able to do without this. Spending a card to do this seems like a huge waste, and it's certainly not a good enough reason to main deck Extirpate.

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I completely disagree with you. By Extirpating my goblin opponent I can see if theyre playing maindeck Disenchants or not, hitting Survival lets me know whats in their hugely random archetype. Hitting a silly Elgin deck lets me know whats in there. Simply hitting a fetchland against someone who blew up a Polluted Delta will let me know if theyre playing Thresh, Solidarity, Salvagers, Tog, or Iggy. Something I like knowing turn one. Seeing my opponents hand tells me what to name with that other fucking ridiculous black card known as Cabal Therapy.

Envision..

Opponent plays delta, blows it up for island and plays Brainstorms. Now I tear away the land or Brainstorm, look at my opponents hand, and look at their deck. Now I dont whiff my therapy, ensuring double duty off it. I also shuffled my opponents Brainstorm cards away on resolution. Something very nice since a smart player will hide their High Tides, ect from anyone playing swamps.

All at the cost of one black mana. What does Extirpate need to be for maindeck material free? It might be worth mentioning, whether or not a card effects the board position doesnt always determine its playability. You do realize Brainstorm doesnt effect the game state? Yet unlike the aforementioned you can get a short term benifit out of the card by taking a key card out of a graveyard. Not just the long term effect of the extraction.

God help me, but I think I actually agree with Complete Jank for a change. The information you can get off of Extirpate is excellent.

I still don't think this is Maindeck material. However, it will give you the chance to figure out what was sideboarded in against you after you board it in, which can be crucial in figuring out how to make the correct plays.

This card is the love child of Extract and Cremate, so unless those two had some really nice recessive genes, this is not going to be maindeck-worthy.

I want to see more price predictions. Those are a lot harder to weasel your way out of when, six months from now, you've come to be completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by MattH

This card is the love child of Extract and Cremate, so unless those two had some really nice recessive genes, this is not going to be maindeck-worthy.

I want to see more price predictions. Those are a lot harder to weasel your way out of when, six months from now, you've come to be completely wrong.

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Well the arguement to be made is neither of those cards alone were good enough. Both of them together get alittle better, especially when your not extracting just one card. Change it to an interrupt, put it in disruptions best color and you have a bomb. Knowledge is power, and this card gives more knowledge about your opponents tactic than any other card at its cost.

It'll come out of the gates at 20 bucks and probably go down to 10-15.

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Knowledge is power, and this card gives more knowledge about your opponents tactic than any other card at its cost.

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No one plays Telepathy, Spy Network, or Urza's Bauble. Peek very rarely sees any play at all. Knowledge is worth neither card advantage nor tempo in Magic.

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Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges

No one plays Telepathy, Spy Network, or Urza's Bauble. Peek very rarely sees any play at all. Knowledge is worth neither card advantage nor tempo in Magic.

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RTFC Elgin, you see your opponents entire deck not just their hand. Of course no one plays those cards, they dont offer any long term card advantage. They dont place any immediate effect on the game statis.

Knowledge is complete card advantage because you have the advantage of knowing your opponents tactics. Knowing what cards your opponent sideboarded against you lets you avoid traps and lets you play accordingly.

Peek also cant completely hose LftL based strategy or an Iggy deck.

Dont make pointless arguements, Split Second knows alot more about tempo than you.