[Deck] Angel Stompy

In my experience, Landstill and Combo tend to be the bad matchups. I am lucky in that I don't run into too much combo here in the Charlotte, NC area but both can be problems. The combo I have played against and struggled with at some point is Belcher and Solidarity. Belcher is one of those deals where you either have the answer or you don't. Null Rod and Disenchant work extremely well as would be imagined. As for Solidarity, unless I am missing something this is the decks worste matchup. True Beleiver and Orim's Chant do nothing. You can protect true beleiver with MoR all you want but evacuation just kills you out of the sideboard. Orim's Chant simply delays the inevitable by one turn.

As for Landstill, I have played it a few times and have gone about 50/50 against the deck. I qualify this by saying I have played very few matches against the deck to even suggest that the matchup is 50/50 as I suspect it is far worse.

As for good matchups ... the deck has many. Anything Red based tends to be fairly easy. I also have a pretty easy time against teh R/G based Survival decks. ATS is a bit more problematic but nothing a good player shouldn't be able to handle. I have also had good experiences against Rock variants of numerous fashion. Control, excepting for Landstill, is also something I have come to see as a good matchup. Scepter-Chant can be a bit problematic if you run into it often, God knows I have over the past couple months, but non-scepter control tends to simply be a game of play a threat early and beat down ... a la Jamie Wakefield.

So the bad matchups are,and the cards possible to side in against these decks are:
-Solidarity->Gaea's blessing;true believer
-Belcher->Null rods,any artifact removal
-Landstill->Decree of justice;armageddon

Maybe run some graveyard hate-cards,and I think that should do the trick as a decent sideboard,no?

@Scrummdogg:I tested the SotP,and they really help against decks like rgsa and ats,I especially liked no more recurring spore frogs and baloths,and the bushido also helps a lot in early combat :).

I think I'm going to check this Sideboard out:

1 disenchant
3 Aura of Silence
4 True believer
4 decree of justice
3 tormod's crypt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elvenwish

ATS is a bit more problematic but nothing a good player shouldn't be able to handle.

---

Well, you ever played against a good ATS player ? I guess not.

Survival of the Fittest
1G Enchantment
Pay G, Discard a creaturecard from your hand: You win the game.

Against a good player, the SotF text is that. Angel Stompy cant win consitently against a good ATS player.
I played against a Angel Stompy player who played this.

1 Turn: Mother of Runes
2 Turn: Morph
3 Turn: Disenchant on SotF, Tithe
4 Turn: Disenchant on SotF, Solitary Priest
5 Turn: Exalted tapped, attacking

I won the game with 6 life, which is still quiet much life. He stands no chance, because i had a single SotF activation pre first Disenchant.

Another senario is.

1 Turn: Tithe
2 Turn: Samurai of the Pale Curtain
3 Turn: Disenchant on Survival
4 Turn: double Solitary Priest
5 Turn: nothing only attacking
6 Turn: he angry scooped his cards together

I am not the best ATS player, but luckily i made the best moves possible (like an experienced player would play) and even after double Disenchant or SotPC + Disenchant the SotF player can easyly procede to win.
That is why i would recommend to pack heavy Surival hate cards into your sideboard, especialy graveyard hate cards + removel is quiet a good combination to fight ATS.

Greetz Timme :D

I like Aura of Silence in the sideboard even though it is slower than Seal of Cleansing (but AoS has a much more powerful effect on the game when it hits). If you need more speed, go with Seal (or even Abolish), if you can spare the turn, run the Aura and watch what it does to players with artifacts and enchantments. Tormod's Crypts definitely belong in the board as they are the best compromise of tempo, cc, color consideration, and overall effect we are likely to get. In a side note, cards for a sideboard MUST be have multi-purpose roles, be flexible enough to deal with multiple decks unless (and ONLY unless) A) you can reliably expect mass repetitions of one or two decks & can focus your efforts to hose or B) there is a common matchup you CANNOT win without certain narrow sideboard options. <rant off> However, if there is a common deck you cannot beat Game 1 & it requires massive sideboard help...perhaps the deck needs to be further optimized.

Sideboard options:
Null Rod vs Abeyance - if you face serious activated artifact abuse in your area, Rod is probably better. Abeyance obviously has better overall use & cantrips, but is a one shot.

On a sub-note: Orim's Chant (or the budget conscious Gilded Light) are fine options as well. Both have applicability against combo & are fine against aggro that targets as well (Sligh, SD Zoo, G/R Beats). Useful as an option depending upon what you expect to see. True Believer falls into this category as well, with the added benefit of being protectable by Mom or SoFI & being able swing. It can be mass bounced, but that takes time & mana (and the correct cards) options your opponent should either not have or be under serious pressure to find before you rip his face off...we ARE aggro-control, remember.

Tormods Crypt - everything else is either sub-par or out of color. Given the prevalence of SotF & Landstill, it should be an automatic 3 of. Has the added benefit of cleaning up everything Samurai missed.

Armageddon - this strategy has been valid for years & the added utility of facing land based decks & decks which lust for mana makes it invaluable. In conjunction with Crypt & Samurai, the effect becomes even more brutal. Should be at least a 3 of.

Disenchant/Seal of Cleansing/Aura of Silence/Abolish - heck, even Soltari Visionary in a meta full of SotF (a move that was very successful when SotF was everywhere as the tempo swing is brutal, even IF the can continually recur the SotF). These items helps against SotF, Landstill (the 2 major concerns in terms of what you should expect to see) and much combo (the other concern in terms of problematic matchup). Should be a 3-4 of at the moment.

Gaea's Blessing - if you expect Stormbased blue, side 1. Otherwise don't bother.

Decree of Justice is a good overall card and good against board sweeping control. Definitely worth trying...although we come to number-crunching again....

@Timme:
Welcome to The Source and to the thread. Congrats on the two victories and on your opponent NEVER seeing an STP, Wave, SoFI or any other tempo Game 2. I am not advocating ATS as an easy match, but I look forward to good players running both decks against each other (including after sideboarding...) as the games should be even, interactive, and fun.

Ok,I think this is decent as a Sideboard:
3 tormod's crypt
3 Armageddon
3 Decree of Justice
3 True Believer
3 Aura of Silence

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elvenwish

Happy: I agree totally with your comments concerning Aether Vial. My point exactly. I do have one question though, why Shining Shoal? I understand that it is free damage redirection no matter the source dealing the damage. But how much damage do you really expect to be redirecting? Late game, yes, you can redirect quite a bit but early, when playing the spell for free you will redirect no more than two damage unless you dicard Exalted, something I am not sure I would be comfortable doing. What is your reasoning behind this? What do you not like about Parallax Wave? Is it your meta or am I missing something?

---

Shinning Shoal was just a suggestion. Because I am at college in AZ most of my magic playing takes place on MTGO, where I sometimes run into a ww deck running Shinning shoal. Shinning Shoal screwes with an opponent's math so much that at times it can simply win games. one of the reasons I was suggesting Shoal over Wave was that it decreases the number of targets for various removal spells. But like I said, I have no legacy testing to make an assertion either way. Just an idea.

Edit:
Aura of Silence is way too slow to help in the Survival matchup, I would Probably want to run Erase in its place because of the speed, and the "RFG". Abolish is also really good, but having 7-8 none plains mana sources can pose a problem.

Aura is a good answer in the survival match. Especially in the Macguyver match(I know this deck isn't that widely played yet but I have a feeling it will be big) but I digress. Aura equals more disenchant effects which equal more dead survivals which equals awesome. Plus if the Aura is dropped say second turn off of a mox and the survival player has falied to get that nasty little enchantment down he'll have to wait a couple more turns while you hopefully bash face.

As for Erase taking it's place in the board crypt already takes care of removing the SotF from the game as well as other meddlesome things (gensis, frogs, insert random witness target here).

I happen to have a soft spot for this sideboard:

4 Abeyance
3 Armageddon
2 Decree of Justice
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 True Believer

The Belcher and Solidarity matchups for this deck can, unfortunately, get ugly, which is why I have 7 cards boarded for it. The maindeck Disenchants have been enough for me to blast Survival, and Tormod's Crypt helps, too.

Rule of Law>True Believer. True Believer just makes them find a Cunning Wish while going off, which isn't hard. Rule of Law means they have to find it before going off, which can be quite difficult.

Roop

EDIT:Angel Stompy sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evil Roopey

Rule of Law>True Believer. True Believer just makes them find a Cunning Wish while going off, which isn't hard. Rule of Law means they have to find it before going off, which can be quite difficult.

Roop

EDIT:Angel Stompy sucks.

---

Which is why True Believer should be maindeck (it swings and has application against more decks in the field) and Rule of Law (and Abeyance) should be sideboard. And yes, the decks sooooooo badly that it won Bob's Dual Land Draft with a suboptimal version.....terrible, visibly awful.... Quite frankly, had we been paying attention and made sure the sideboard was correct, the Angel Stompy deck from up north that went 4-3 would have been 6-1. It played (and lost to) 2 Solidarity decks without Rule of Law or Abeyance in the sideboard. That would have been 2 Angel Stompy decks in the Top 8. Wretched deck, unable to compete in a diverse field.....yeah right :cool:

Winning a tournament says nothing about anything. I've seen MoSH win a tournament! Does that make the deck good? When was the last time AStompy put any numbers at all? When the deck consisntantly does well like it used to I will take back my comment.

Let's not go down this road again. It's really just opinion right now. If Angel Stompy keeps winning on the East coast as well as the West, it will prove that it's a very strong deck. If it doesn't, then it might have been a bit of a fluke. Either way, time will tell.

[color=#000000:post_uid2]has anyone tested umezawa's jitte? it offers alot of options plus its alot faster to cast... just a suggestion.. dont know what card to replace though.. i tried replacing one sword of fire and ice for it.. but i dont really get to test it that much.. i just like the options it provides..:p

ohh just to back the jitte i suggested... if the creature equiped with the jitte manages to stay in the game for sum time....or the jitte itself gets to stay in play... it really really does give a head ache to your opponent.. u can even use the counters b4 it gets destroyed.. thats if it manages to store counters..but ofcorz creature based decks hate this more than control or combo decks... but i wouldnt know.. i only got to test it against aggro decks.. :)

[color=red:post_uid2][i:post_uid2]Welcome to the board but please be aware of the following things: Do not double post and please review the
rules about posting in the Legacy Metagame Forum. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Peter_Rotten[/i:post_uid2][/color:post_uid2][/color:post_uid2]

Welcome to The Source. Just a couple of quick points, you should probably be careful about double posting (Peter Rotten gets angry), poor grammar & capitalization (Peter Rotten is now frothing at the mouth) and check spelling even if English isn't your first language (full blown conniptions by the English teacher-mod by now....). This especially applies in the LMF since they want high level discussion on these decks. :cool: On to your idea, which is a cool one. I really hadn't seriously considered the Jitte, even after I had to re-evaluate how good it can be based on getting my faced smashed repeatedly in Type 2. There are two different comparisons that have to be made since the card can only realistically replace 3 cards: Mask of Memory (which it probably shouldn't do since it cannot draw cards, the necessary element that MoM provides), Sword of Fire & Ice (see below), and Parallax Wave (see below).

Advantages of Jitte vs SoFI: does not have to deal combat damage to a player to become active, provides -X/-X to critters instead of 2 set damage (and the amount can be more than 2), can gain life, can pump the equipped critter higher than +2/+2 although the bonus is not permanent.

Advantages of SoFI vs Jitte: provides a permanent bonus of +2/+2, grants protection from blue and red (although counters on Jitte provide de facto pro-red by negating burn) - both of those abilities requiring no further investment beyond equipping said critter, draws a card when it deals damage, the 2 points of damage it generates on damaging a player in combat can also hit that player.

Hmmmm....this merits testing because both cards have good effects, and the Jitte comes out 1 mana cheaper. Depending upon what you expect to face, that might also make a difference.

Advantages of Jitte vs Parallax Wave: a more permanent source of removal (via -X/-X & counters), a more permanent permanent (does not fade out), same cost to cast & equip but that can be spread out over multiple turns, gains life or pumps critter, makes your position more threatening (can be an aggro element against any deck, incluing creatureless builds like Solidarity).

Advantages of Parallax Wave vs Jitte: saving your guys from removal - whether individual or mass removal - almost guaranteed, providing a save after combat (damage on the stack tricks), ability to morph an Angel painlessly (although, to be fair, if you can cast wave, you can morph the Angel anyway...), does not die to dedicated artifact removal, can clear out opposing critters for an alpha strike.

Hmmmm....again some interesting contrasts, also worht testing. I am more excited about trying a build with MoM, SoFI, AND Jitte but without the P. Waves. I am hoping that several people will be testing these possibilities and that we all report back.

My one problem with adding jitte is the fact that it is legendary. This limits you to only playing one at a time while the sword can be slapped down and then another one can follow it for more fun. In my playing two swords on a shadowy guy is awesome. This discussion almost makes me want to ponder e.tutor again but still don't knwo if it's possible.

I have been testing it recently and I am running it in the mask of memory slot. Although I really like the mask's card draw powers, it does not have the versatility of the jitte. So far I am starting to prfer the jitte. The creature removal possibility has proven more useful for me in the format.

My problem about adding it into the P.Wave slot is that with 3 types of ecquiptment it not only gets harder to fight through artifact hate in addition to not being able to find food for your chrome moxes.

I really am torn on if the jitte warrants inclusion or not, while it can come down turn 2 attatched on a lion, the mask lets you find your SB cards much quicker in games 2+3, ,plus the jitte might be overkill on the amount of creature removal the deck would then pack.

I wouldn't say the Jitte merits inclusion. Tradewind shuts it down, and Survival and Landstill have easy answers to it.

Now, you could make the same argument against Mask, but if you're playing Survival or Landstill, are you really going to blow up that Mask? Or would you rather blow up an SoFnI or Mox?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GodzillA

//NAME: Legacy Angel Stompy
// Mana
11 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Chrome Mox
4 Tithe
// Beats
4 Mother of Runes
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Savannah Lions
4 Silver Knight
4 Soltari Priest
4 Exalted Angel
// Control & Draw
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Disenchant
3 Mask of Memory
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Parallax Wave

---

Leaving the heavily discussed sideboard out for a moment, I want to shift the focus on the maindeck. I'm assuming that the decklist posted on the first page of this thread is still accurate, so I'm working from there.

The main weakness of Angel Stompy seem to be the high mulligan rates and the occasional self implosion due to mana screw. Although the deck has 22 mana sources, I would be much happier if I could somehow bump this up to 24. This might seem like too much, but spare lands can be discarded to Mask of Memory, so that shouldn't be too bad.

Now the big question is, what two cards can be cutted for two additional mana sources?

My build has been running very smoothly on 23 mana sources,here's what I cut :
1 Savannah lions for an extra chrome mox.
1 ancient tomb for 1 plains extra,because I found it hard to get 2 white mana for a knight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zirilian

My build has been running very smoothly on 23 mana sources,here's what I cut :
1 Savannah lions for an extra chrome mox.
1 ancient tomb for 1 plains extra,because I found it hard to get 2 white mana for a knight.

---

Even though you are increasing the mana count by one, you are changing the white mana sources by two. Good call btw, I agree with -1 lions especially considering that it is a "suboptimal 1 drops." :cool:

Edit: Some quick testing on MWS reveals a decrease in the # of mulligans by 7% in a trial of fifty hands. Small fix, good results.

Personally, I've been doing -1 Parallax -1 Tomb +1 Plains +1 Mask, but my meta's a bit crappy.

Another point: In t2, a friend of mine replaced all of his Lions with Tundra Wolves, bringing up an interesting point. Lions loses to or trades with anything short of Birds and Wall of Roots. Wolves at least beats X/1s, which aren't rare in this format. Is this a possibility?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GRAH

Personally, I've been doing -1 Parallax -1 Tomb +1 Plains +1 Mask, but my meta's a bit crappy.

Another point: In t2, a friend of mine replaced all of his Lions with Tundra Wolves, bringing up an interesting point. Lions loses to or trades with anything short of Birds and Wall of Roots. Wolves at least beats X/1s, which aren't rare in this format. Is this a possibility?

---

With all the talk about ineffective one drops I don't think introducing Tundra Wolves will improve the situation.

Regarding your mana base changes, I think Zirilian has a beter solution. Greater consistency, and you don't weaken the deck nearly as much.

On a side note, Tundra Wolves have alot more merit in T2 due to not trading with elders, witnesses, Firewalkers (first turn), hearth Kami, etc. etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GRAH

Personally, I've been doing -1 Parallax -1 Tomb +1 Plains +1 Mask, but my meta's a bit crappy.

Another point: In t2, a friend of mine replaced all of his Lions with Tundra Wolves, bringing up an interesting point. Lions loses to or trades with anything short of Birds and Wall of Roots. Wolves at least beats X/1s, which aren't rare in this format. Is this a possibility?

---

look your missing the point on the lions, if they can get blocked you usually don't swing w/ em. they are meant to smash to the face not kill other creatures.

Me and Scrumdogg have recently took a version of this deck to syracuse for the dual draft. I was very impressed with my showing (despite facing two solidarity decks with nothing but true believers as answers to it). I belive this decklist proved itself to me there and I would not hesitate to run it again.

Mana:
12 plains
4 ancient tomb
3 chrome mox
3 tithe

Removal:
4 swords to plowshares
3 parallax wave
2 disenchant

Critters:
4 samurai of the pale curtain
4 soltari priests
4 mother of runes
3 true believer
4 exalted angel
2 soltari visionary
3 silver knight

Equipment:
3 mask of memory
2 sword of fire and ice

Sideboard:
3 armageddon
3 aura of silence
3 pariah
2 tormods crypt
2 tsabo's web
1 true believer
1 sword of light and shadow
(room has to be found for abeyance)



I'd like input if anyone wants to help me out. I'll answer any questions that I can.

With only 3 tithe and 3 Chrome mox,aren't you experiencing trouble with getting WW for 4 samurai of the pale curtain,soltari priests,true believer,exalted angel and silver knight?
Also,what is that 1 sword of light and shadow doing there?

Gilmore:Thanks for the compliment :)

I have had minimal mana issues maybe I'm just a luck sack but the mana seems perfect for me. The sword in the board is actually a very helpful tool it provides pro white against StP and in the survival match it can act like a psuedo genesis giving you valuable recursion.

I think you're a luck sack,because I sometimes have trouble getting that WW,even with the added white sources.

Also,I think tithe is too good a card not to run 4.

This deck is killer:) . Yeah there is a problem achieving double W unless you have 4xTithe 3xChrome Mox. Anything that isn't evasive or really useful in this format should not be played:blues: . With that said I have tried and tried, but the list Godzilla made already is almost perfected except maybe a Tomb out for Plains but that might affect how fast i morph exalted and how fast I can cast SoFI and MoM.

4 Tithe is a must in my opinion. It's card advantage and a mana fixer. I hear a lot of complaints that people are having trouble getting WW, so my suggestion would be not to drop a Tomb (because it will negatively affect your ability to get turn 2 morph or Sword), but to drop one of the Masks of Memory. In my experience, it has been the least effective in multiples, and I nearly always play them after I play out my Swords. My suggestion would be to go -1 Mask, +1 Plains and see how well that fixes mana consistency issues.

I'll try that change and see how it works for me :)
I think my MD list is almost optimal,but my Sb still needs help.

My meta is diverse,I suspect most of the decks to beat will be there,and also some extended and T1 ports,like tog and sligh.

So far,I think these are no-brainers:
3 Armageddon (control)
1 disenchant (survival)
3 True Believer (belcher and solidarity)

That leaves me 8 slots,suggestions would be greatly appreciated :).

Hi,

Just a quick note.

First of all, the deck looks great. I'm a type 1 player but am thinking of selling off the expensive cards and switching to legacy due to, among other things, the fact that the format has cool decks such as this.

I haven't tested the deck that much yet, but if Savannah Lions are the least good creature in the deck, then what about changing them to Icatian Javelineers?

As far as I can tell this format is also swarmed by welders (as well as birds, elves, goblins and so on) so is this a possibility?

Again, thanks to GodzillA for this great deck.

Icatian Javelineers are a neat card, but they suffer from a couple problems. The removal element is great, especially for weasel critters that you mention. However, many of them will come into play hasty, thereby negating the ability of the Javelineers to prevent them from functioning. Furthermore, the Javelineers must tap to activate, meaning they have trouble helping you reverse a bad board position (since they won't have haste) and the tapping puts a kink in your tempo. After they become the vanilla 1/1 again, they have neither size, nor evasion, nor special ability to justify their existence. That being said, test the hell out of the little suckers and prove me wrong...maybe they are the wave of the future :cool: Welcome to The Source and a better, more fun format.

So Icatian Javilineers is in a very similar deck that Zilla based a lot of Angel Stompy on. It's called WWW and can be found somewhere around here:
Wayfarer White Weenie

WWW is slower but much more consistent, not having the crappy mana base in a monocolored deck.

I don't really know why everyones playing Angel Stompy over WWW. I've played A-STOMP and know how it plays, and to me its rather unimpressive. It's clunky with equipment, and unless you're going turn 2/3 angel I'd rather be playing WWW. Ever wonder what happends to Landstill when they get wastelanded over and over... They scoop. IMO, WWW is much better against ATS and Landstill, and should be seeing much more play than A-STOMP. I also agree with CavernNinja on the manabase. This deck's manabase is balls, but its necessary for the deck to win. I just think people should take another look at WWW and put this deck down.

Except turn 2/3 Angel really isn't that uncommon, and is usually GG against many decks. Seriously, how many decks in the environment can easily handle early Angel beats? Turn 2 Angel followed by turn 3 Sword is pretty much always a forfeit, and yes, I've managed that more than once.

However, I think that Landstill is and probably always will be a bad matchup. It's simply got too many answers.

You get 2nd turn angel once in a blue moon, and just because the deck is capable of turn 2 angel doesn't mean that its going to happen often. Who says that turn 2 angel wins the game anyways? STP? Bolt? Your angel and entire gameplan is a vulnerable 2/2 for the first turn. It's FAR from fulproof.

Why play Angel Stompy over WWW?

That question definetly needs to be answered, since WWW has a better match against Landstill and ATS.

Weird,I though blue moons were supposed to be rare...

I get 2nd turn angels about 30 % of the time,and just for the record:this deck doesn't need angel to win.

Quote:

---

Why play Angel Stompy over WWW?

---

I believe Angel Stompy is a better choice. Here are some of my reasons from tracking both threads from the start.

Creatures with envasion:
WWW 4 (Priest)
AS 8 (Priest + Angel)

Mana Acceleration:
WWW 2-3 at best (Mox)
AS 7-8 (Tombs + Mox)

Ability to creature control:
WWW 8 (StP + Javelineers <-- Extremely limited)
AS 7-8 (StP + Wave <-- Deals with multiple creatures)

It is commonly accepted that a great deal of meta is currently dominated by aggro-control decks. With the above satistics, it's not hard to see why AS is much more popular and doing well.

Also, quotes from the match up page to further reflect my points:

Quote:

---

Wayfarer White Weenie: A very good matchup. This is essentially a mirror match, except you're faster, have higher threat density, more removal, and bigger threats.

---

AND

Quote:

---

Landstill: A decent matchup, likely in your favor. This matchup is rather draw dependent, and depends somewhat on the Landstill build you're facing. It's not uncommon to outdraw them, thus overwhelming their counter defense with threats is not overly difficult.

---

Just some of my thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by troopatroop

Why play Angel Stompy over WWW?

---

WWW is too packed with tiny things, and its lack of speed really hurts any control matchup it could have. Angel Stompy, however, brings out medium-sized threats in the first two turns. Angel Stompy deals mroe damage faster, and can generally keep up with Survival in terms of power to speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CavernNinja

So Icatian Javilineers is in a very similar deck that Zilla based a lot of Angel Stompy on.

---

For clarification, Angel Stompy was actually created a couple months before WWW, before the Sep. 30 B/R changes. It was based heavily on JP Meyers' White Lightning, foregoing a lot of the control elements of that deck for a more aggro approach. The Masks of Memory are owed to WWW, however, as they were replacements for Skullclamp, which were in the pre-B/R build.

With regards to the reason to play this over WWW, GRAH covered it pretty well. This deck drops significant, potentially game-ending threats as early as turn 2. WWW uses a swarm approach, which against certain archetypes may be beneficial, but is not as solid approach in an aggro-heavy meta, which is what Angel Stompy was originally designed for.