The new Legacy metagame

30 more MTGO 5-0 lists were published:
1, 2, 3

Grixis Tempo X6 (2X Bone Picker in one of them)
ANT X2
Mono-Red Sneak Attack X2
R/G Lands X2
Sneak & Show X2
Aggro Loam
Belcher
Canadian Thresh
Czech Pile
Dark Depths
Eldrazi
Gobbos
Infect
Nic Fit
OmniTell
Pox
Team America
TES
U/R Delver
U/R Standstill
U/W Control

Also, it would be cool to know other top placing decks at yesterday's MKM tournament besides the top 8. Fill in archetypes if you know any.

9 Weiss, Johannes
10 Heerens, Daniel- Jund
11 Wibmer, Sebastian
12 Tobiasch, Marc- UB Reanimator
13 Meinung, Carl
14 Hastreiter, Simon
15 Landon, Eric
16 Mar, Tomas- Czech Pile
17 Arnal, Guillem Salvador
18 Rehmann, Daniel
19 Huschenbeth, Arne
20 Paluch, Markus
21 Bausch, Joshua
22 Tuitjer, Karsten
23 Hasenfratz, Felix
24 Maier, Daniel
25 De Brugiere, Remy
26 Benni, Gachstetter
27 Pelikan, Martin- BG HexDepths
28 Leopold, Jan- Leovold UBG
29 Storm, Bengt-Morten
30 Zens, Dennis
31 Heinrich, Jorg
32 Seegelken, Timo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scott

16 Mar, Tomas

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Czech Pile

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scott

30 more MTGO 5-0 lists were published:
1, 2, 3

Grixis Tempo X6 (2X Bone Picker in one of them)
ANT X2
Mono-Red Sneak Attack X2
R/G Lands X2
Sneak & Show X2
Aggro Loam
Belcher
Canadian Thresh
Czech Pile
Dark Depths
Eldrazi
Gobbos
Infect
Nic Fit
OmniTell
Pox
Team America
TES
U/R Delver
U/R Standstill
U/W Control

Also, it would be cool to know other top placing decks at yesterday's MKM tournament besides the top 8. Fill in archetypes if you know any.

9 Weiss, Johannes
10 Heerens, Daniel
11 Wibmer, Sebastian
12 Tobiasch, Marc
13 Meinung, Carl
14 Hastreiter, Simon
15 Landon, Eric
16 Mar, Tomas
17 Arnal, Guillem Salvador
18 Rehmann, Daniel
19 Huschenbeth, Arne
20 Paluch, Markus
21 Bausch, Joshua
22 Tuitjer, Karsten
23 Hasenfratz, Felix
24 Maier, Daniel
25 De Brugiere, Remy
26 Benni, Gachstetter
27 Pelikan, Martin
28 Leopold, Jan
29 Storm, Bengt-Morten
30 Zens, Dennis
31 Heinrich, Jorg
32 Seegelken, Timo

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Bone Picker is definitely interesting. If you cast him for B he's similar to a Delver really. I love the idea of using him Young Pyro and Cabal Therapy in the same shell.

I want to live in a world that this is a top tier deck

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-wtbxaXUAAYaJ6.jpg

Snic-fit is legit

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jandax

Snic-fit is legit

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

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I've been seeing a few more random people pick it up lately. Was watching what looked like some inexperienced pilots stream it to 4-1 record on twitch last week, despite a fair amount of play mistakes.

10 Heerens, Daniel - Jund
12 Tobiasch, Marc - UB Reanimator
27 Pelikan, Martin - BG HexDepths
28 Leopold, Jan - Leovold UBG

I got the decklists of ALL Legacy players in the MKM Frankfurt Legacy Main Event. Will post all Top32 lists to my website later this week.

Jam those decklists into a scanner!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I got the decklists of ALL Legacy players in the MKM Frankfurt Legacy Main Event. Will post all Top32 lists to my website later this week.

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Do you have the pairings? If you do, can I have both sets of data?

I had talked to the scorekeeper about getting them in digital form. We have a system in place that will then provide all matchup%s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I had talked to the scorekeeper about getting them in digital form. We have a system in place that will then provide all matchup%s.

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That's awesome. Is this going to happen for all the MKM events?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by square_two

I've been seeing a few more random people pick it up lately. Was watching what looked like some inexperienced pilots stream it to 4-1 record on twitch last week, despite a fair amount of play mistakes.

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Lol. Not that its much of an excuse but drinking was definitely occurring. Also, yeah. I'm still fairly new to the deck. Been running it on MTGO for a month but it's been really sweet especially given all these fair blue decks. I'm an Elves player at heart but this is a nice change of pace to try. We'll be back streaming on Wednesday hopefully playing a lot tighter but who knows. :) Thanks for watching!

I took part in an 8 Swiss round 137 player tournament in the U.K. hosted by "Axion" on Sunday. It was awesome and prize payout was good, (I got a revised volc for 10th place at 6-2), I'm going to ask the TO for deck lists or ask around on Facebook groups, I only know the decks that I played, and that isn't so useful..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jain_Mor

I took part in an 8 Swiss round 137 player tournament in the U.K. hosted by "Axion" on Sunday. It was awesome and prize payout was good, (I got a revised volc for 10th place at 6-2), I'm going to ask the TO for deck lists or ask around on Facebook groups, I only know the decks that I played, and that isn't so useful..

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Pendrill Vale have them, and I assume Tom will be doing a full breakdown. Top 8, NOT in order (as I don't know it)

Grixis Delver
Bug Delver
DnT
UWR Stoneblade
Eldrazi (won)
4c control
br reanimator
rug delver (quarter)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alastair

Pendrill Vale have them, and I assume Tom will be doing a full breakdown. Top 8, NOT in order (as I don't know it)

Grixis Delver
Bug Delver
DnT
UWR Stoneblade
Eldrazi (won)
4c control
br reanimator
rug delver (quarter)

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Yep, I have all the lists at the moment, passing them onto Tom a little later today. I'll get him to post the article in this thread when it's done.

1st - Eldrazi
2nd - 4c Control
3rd - Grixis Delver
4th - RUG Delver
5th - UWr Stoneblade
6th - BUG Delver
7th - DnT
8th - BR Reanimator

I think RUG beat UWR in the quarters? But I could be wrong, if so switch those two around.

Cool

I know 9th-16th in swiss was:

9th D&T
10th Junk
11th Infect
12th Burn (Disqualified for manipulating opponent's deck)
13th Grixis Delver
14th Bant Blade w/ Leovold
15th Show n Tell
16th Show n Tell

With show n tell beating junk in the "finals" of top 16 single elimination bracket for what it's worth, cool tournament format imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jain_Mor

Cool

I know 9th-16th was:

9th D&T
10th Junk
11th Infect
12th Burn (Disqualified for manipulating opponent's deck)
13th Grixis Delver
14th Bant Blade w/ Leovold
15th Show n Tell
16th Show n Tell

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Yeah, I 'flooded out' to that burn guy in round two :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Yeah, I 'flooded out' to that burn guy in round two :(

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well that's a pile of shite :/

crazy about that deck manipulator. how'd you guys catch him? was he doing the same technique as the SCG cheater?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

crazy about that deck manipulator. how'd you guys catch him? was he doing the same technique as the SCG cheater?

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I'm not sure, I didn't catch him myself. I'm really bad at watching people how they're shuffling, a bit too trusting as I don't play at comp rel events very often.

I think he wasn't caught until after the Swiss. There were playoffs for 9th-16th and 17th-24th place to win prizes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

crazy about that deck manipulator. how'd you guys catch him? was he doing the same technique as the SCG cheater?

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I was playing top 16 elimination at the time, all I know is a group of judges were discussing deck manipulation while standing at the end of the table. I beat my opponent (humble brags) and then played the show n tell guy the judges were standing around previously. He told me he beat his burn opponent 2-0 and at the end of the match judges disqualified the burn player for cheating which essentially meant nothing, he wasn't going to get prizes anyway because he just got knocked out by show n tell guy, and he can still play in the modern tournament the next day for some reason.

I don't know how the judge process works for that, but for the cheating I believe he was peaking while riffling through decks and pulling cards with the thumb to bottom of deck to manipulate opponent draws (i guess if you take non-land cards to bottom of deck a whole bunch then cut, suddenly there's a high concentration of non-land cards in the middle of the deck and therefore high density of lands at top and bottom)

Well you must be souless to play Burn, so cheating is kind of ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nestalim

Well you must be souless to play Burn, so cheating is kind of ok.

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Can't argue with that.

3 more mid-sized post-Top tournaments, in addition to the two big tournaments we've been discussing:

80 players:

1. Infect
2. Sneak & Show
3-4. Aluren
3-4. R/B Reanimator
5-8. Dark Bant
5-8. Team America
5-8. Elves
5-8. Infect

58 players:

1. Death & Taxes
2. Eldrazi
3-4. Maverick
3-4. OmniTell
5-8. R/W Death & Taxes
5-8. Punishing Maverick
5-8. Sneak & Show
5-8. ANT

53 players:

1. BUG Leovold
2. Grixis Tempo
3-4. Eldrazi & Taxes
3-4. Grixis Tempo
5-8. ANT
5-8. Death & Taxes
5-8. Burning OmniTell
5-8. TES

This is looking pretty Wild West-y to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanni

I also believe Elves is going to become a DTB again; every deck is going to need a plan for beating Elves.

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This.
Even before Top copping a ban, Elves was decent against most opponents.

For mine, BUG will likely be the one to beat, due to their flexibility to deal with most threats and white-ant their opposition with counter, discard and waste.
Doesn't seem to matter which deck I sleeve up, BUG is usually difficult...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scott

3 more mid-sized post-Top tournaments, in addition to the two big tournaments we've been discussing:

80 players:

1. Infect
2. Sneak & Show
3-4. Aluren
3-4. R/B Reanimator
5-8. Dark Bant
5-8. Team America
5-8. Elves
5-8. Infect

58 players:

1. Death & Taxes
2. Eldrazi
3-4. Maverick
3-4. OmniTell
5-8. R/W Death & Taxes
5-8. Punishing Maverick
5-8. Sneak & Show
5-8. ANT

53 players:

1. BUG Leovold
2. Grixis Tempo
3-4. Eldrazi & Taxes
3-4. Grixis Tempo
5-8. ANT
5-8. Death & Taxes
5-8. Burning OmniTell
5-8. TES

This is looking pretty Wild West-y to me.

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That was the whole point right? Open up the format so people could play whatever they want (except of course miracles/top). Now if they would just open up access to the format by eliminating the RL, or even just taking 10 little cards off the RL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zooligan

That was the whole point right? Open up the format so people could play whatever they want (except of course miracles/top). Now if they would just open up access to the format by eliminating the RL, or even just taking 10 little cards off the RL.

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The format is only wide open right now because people don't know which direction is up and which is down. It's going to take some time, but the meta will settle down and we will have some established DTB's. Even before Miracles, this has always been the case in Legacy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanni

The format is only wide open right now because people don't know which direction is up and which is down. It's going to take sime time, but the meta will settle down and we will have some established DTB's. Even before Miracles, this has always been the case in Legacy.

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The DTB's always seem to have a few niches. Here is my projection:

The grindy one: Czech/4c Control

The tempo deck: Grixis Delver

The spell-based combo: Sneak/Show, Storm, BR Reanimator

The creature based combo: Elves

And much to Dice's delight, I think Lands will make a comeback, but I am not sure given the strength of the spell based combo decks. I could see D&T being up there as well, but with Elves being so poor and a bunch of Kolaghan's Commands being played, I am not sure.

Julian has provided us with the deck lists for 9th-23rd place finishers at the 437-player MKM Frankfurt tournament:

In addition to the top 8 already known, 9-23 had

Grixis Tempo X3
Bant Deathblade X2
Czech Pile X2
OmniSneak X2
4c Delver
Aluren
Jund
Red Eldrazi
Team America
U/B Reanimator

- - - - - - - - - -

I haven't seen it made official, but Arcanis had an 8-round tournament this weekend and the results were apparently:

1. U/R Delver
2. Grixis Tempo
3-4. Esper Delver
3-4. Infect
5-8. Food Chain
5-8. Infect
5-8. Infect
5-8. U/R Delver


- - - - - - - - - -

Obviously, MTGO results should be consumed with pebbles of salt because of things like publication choice and pairing system, but 30 more 5-0 results were published and they are:

ANT X3
Czech Pile X3
Dragon Stompy X3
Grixis Tempo X3
U/R Delver X3
B/R Reanimator X2
Mono-Red Sneak Attack X2
Sneak & Show X2
Team America X2
Aggro Loam
Big Eldrazi
Dark Depths
Infect
Junk
R/G Lands
W/R Death & Taxes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scott

- - - - - - - - - -

I haven't seen it made official, but Arcanis had an 8-round tournament this weekend and the results were apparently:

1. U/R Delver
2. Grixis Tempo
3-4. Esper Delver
3-4. Infect
5-8. Food Chain
5-8. Infect
5-8. Infect
5-8. U/R Delver

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Actually the 8th was Burn

I was playing UR :cool:

With now exactly 2 weeks gone since the ban, these data can be pulled off mtgtop8, some things to notice:


-Deathrite did not become 60% of the meta, but only went up a few % to 35% right now.
-Maverick and Zoo did not really come back (yet)
-Eldrazi is falling even farther off the radar, becoming just another beatable random deck people play occasionally
-Control is not *completely* dead (and I'm assuming it should grow a bit more once people know what to control against)
-Show & Tell winter for now, apparently :tongue:


181 decks

Aggro
34 %
Grixis Delver 20 11 %
Death & Taxes 7 4 %
UR Delver 5 3 %
Infect 5 3 %
Dragon Stompy 4 2 %
Maverick 4 2 %
Eldrazi Aggro 4 2 %
Burn 3 2 %
Bant 2 1 %
Goblins 2 1 %
Zoo 1 1 %
Merfolk 1 1 %
Patriot Aggro 1 1 %
Pikula 1 1 %
Canadian Threshold 1 1 %
Other - Aggro 1 1 %

Control
22 %
BUG Midrange 9 5 %
Stoneblade 9 5 %
Lands 6 3 %
Loam 4 2 %
Grixis Control 3 2 %
BUG Control 3 2 %
Nic Fit 2 1 %
UWx Control 1 1 %
Threshold (Other) 1 1 %
Landstill 1 1 %
Pox 1 1 %

Combo
44 %
Show and Tell 23 13 %
Storm 19 10 %
Elves 9 5 %
Dark Depths 7 4 %
Reanimator 7 4 %
Mono Red Sneak Attack 3 2 %
Aluren 3 2 %
Food Griffin 3 2 %
Dredge 1 1 %
Cloudpost Ramp 1 1 %
Belcher 1 1 %
Other - Combo 2 1 %

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dog_koko

Actually the 8th was Burn

I was playing UR :cool:

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Congrats! And thanks for the correction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fjaulnir

With now exactly 2 weeks gone since the ban, these data can be pulled off mtgtop8, some things to notice:

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I've been putting data together too. Unfortunately, as far as I know, mtgtop8 counts total appearances, so includes very small tournaments, doesn't differentiate between placings in tournaments of different size, and doesn't give extra points for top 8 wins. So, for every placing in 6 rounders and up after the ban, I used The Council's system (1 point for each round; 1 point for each win in the top 8; also counting top 16 decks if info. available). And I used The Source's system of a DTB being a deck with at least 4.6% of total points.

That includes MKM Frankfurt, Axion GPT, Arcanis, Valhalla's Gate, Spellhold GPT, Circuito, Olympus Roè Volciano, Duel for Duals, and Magic Master Series.
A few decks will get a few more points because I don't have the info on Axion's top 8 matches.

So, it's a short period of time and things are in flux, but your post-Top paper meta so far:
774 total points
35.6 points to be a DTB
DTBs: Grixis Tempo, Sneak & Show, Infect, Death & Taxes, Bant Deathblade, OmniTell, B/R Reanimator, more that are oh-so-close (including Elves and Czech Pile, with unorthodox rounding), and a large herd not far behind

Grixis Tempo: 88
Sneak & Show: 68
Infect: 57
Death & Taxes: 46
Bant Deathblade: 45
OmniTell: 39
B/R Reanimator: 36
Czech Pile: 35
Elves: 35
ANT: 34
Team America: 32
Eldrazi: 26
Food Chain: 19
Maverick: 19
Aluren: 18
Burn: 16
Esperblade: 15
U/R Delver: 11
4c Delver: 10
Aggro Loam: 10
Jund: 10
U/B Reanimator: 10
BUG Leovold: 9
Esper Delver: 9
UWR Control: 9
Junk: 8
Canadian Thresh: 8
UWr Stoneblade: 8
Dark Depths: 7
Eldrazi & Taxes: 7
TES: 7
Big Eldrazi: 6
Nic Fit: 6
Shardless BUG: 6
UWR Delver: 6

I don't want to live in a world where SnT is the second most played legacy deck.

Thanks for all the work Scott, appreciate it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scott

Congrats! And thanks for the correction.



I've been putting data together too. Unfortunately, as far as I know, mtgtop8 counts total appearances, so includes very small tournaments, doesn't differentiate between placings in tournaments of different size, and doesn't give extra points for top 8 wins. So, for every placing in 6 rounders and up after the ban, I used The Council's system (1 point for each round; 1 point for each win in the top 8; also counting top 16 decks if info. available). And I used The Source's system of a DTB being a deck with at least 4.6% of total points.

That includes MKM Frankfurt, Axion GPT, Arcanis, Valhalla's Gate, Spellhold GPT, Circuito, Olympus Roè Volciano, Duel for Duals, and Magic Master Series.
A few decks will get a few more points because I don't have the info on Axion's top 8 matches.

So, it's a short period of time and things are in flux, but your post-Top paper meta so far:
774 total points
35.6 points to be a DTB
DTBs: Grixis Tempo, Sneak & Show, Infect, Death & Taxes, Bant Deathblade, OmniTell, B/R Reanimator, more that are oh-so-close (including Elves and Czech Pile, with unorthodox rounding), and a large herd not far behind

Grixis Tempo: 88
Sneak & Show: 68
Infect: 57
Death & Taxes: 46
Bant Deathblade: 45
OmniTell: 39
B/R Reanimator: 36
Czech Pile: 35
Elves: 35
ANT: 34
Team America: 32
Eldrazi: 26
Food Chain: 19
Maverick: 19
Aluren: 18
Burn: 16
Esperblade: 15
U/R Delver: 11
4c Delver: 10
Aggro Loam: 10
Jund: 10
U/B Reanimator: 10
BUG Leovold: 9
Esper Delver: 9
UWR Control: 9
Junk: 8
Canadian Thresh: 8
UWr Stoneblade: 8
Dark Depths: 7
Eldrazi & Taxes: 7
TES: 7
Big Eldrazi: 6
Nic Fit: 6
Shardless BUG: 6
UWR Delver: 6

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https://www.axionnow.co.uk/Articles/View/46

Axion's top 8 was:

1st Eldrazi
2nd Czech Pile
3rd Grixis Delver
4th RUG Delver
5th BR Reanimator
6th Death & Taxes
7th BUG Delver
8th Jeskai Stoneblade

Someone in tournament report mentioned 9th-16th also has a single elimination bracket for extra prizes:

9th Sneak & Show
10th Junk Midrange

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Thanks for all the work Scott, appreciate it!

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Any time!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeckBird

Axion's top 8 was:

...

Someone in tournament report mentioned 9th-16th also has a single elimination bracket for extra prizes:

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Thanks for the link; that confirms it, so I can add the points for top 8 wins.

I gave 9th-16th 8 points for placing in an 8-rounder, but no extra, because I'm pretty sure that's what TCD does.

Which meeeans

781 total points
35.9 cutoff
DTBs: Grixis Tempo, Sneak & Show, Infect, Death & Taxes, Bant Deathblade, OmniTell, B/R Reanimator, + Czech Pile moves in :tongue:

Grixis Tempo: 89
Sneak & Show: 68
Infect: 57
Death & Taxes: 46
Bant Deathblade: 45
OmniTell: 39
Czech Pile: 37
B/R Reanimator: 36
Elves: 35
ANT: 34
Team America: 32
Eldrazi: 29
Food Chain: 19
Maverick: 19
Aluren: 18
Burn: 16
Esperblade: 15
U/R Delver: 11
4c Delver: 10
Aggro Loam: 10
Jund: 10
U/B Reanimator: 10
BUG Leovold: 9
Canadian Thresh: 9
Esper Delver: 9
UWR Control: 9
Junk: 8
UWr Stoneblade: 8
Dark Depths: 7
Eldrazi & Taxes: 7
TES: 7
Big Eldrazi: 6
Nic Fit: 6
Shardless BUG: 6
UWR Delver: 6

Just a heads up. Next month Miracles will still be a DTB in the next update. It was legal for enough of the month to earn a victory lap but it will be moved out anyway. The rest of the update will be an odd mix of the dying Meta and the flux the ban created. The embers of the old.

The current data I would not bet on. I have watched Lands be a DTB for almost all of the month only to get pushed out just before posting. That said, I feel it is extremely likely that SnT is both in for next month and here to stay. I also suspect I will be playing Metalworker, Ensnaring Bridge, 3ball and Smokestack while it is.

i only play online, and the format is fucking god damn awful.

Anyone who disagree, who play online, are a fucking idiot and need to shut the fuck up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

i only play online, and the format is fucking god damn awful.

Anyone who disagree, who play online, are a fucking idiot and need to shut the fuck up.

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I don't play online. Please do explain, I'm honestly interested.