Thank you! I'm waiting the report, it will be very interesting to know how did you get to the top 4, especially for the sideboarding strategies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
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Thank you! I'm waiting the report, it will be very interesting to know how did you get to the top 4, especially for the sideboarding strategies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
As promised, a short report from the GP. I didn’t take a lot of notes so some info will be missing here and there. I played in three events including the main event.
I played the following list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Etched Champion
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Walking Ballista
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Spellskite
First side event:
R1: turbo depths
Win the die roll
G1: I have wastelands, chalice, revoker plus extra pressure so easy win
G2: I have a quick spyglass and see stage, urborg, dephts, sylvan, crop rotation, hexmage and petal. I put it on hexmage because I have wasteland, but he manages to get extra pieces so he makes a 20/20 in his turn. I copy marit lage with metamorph but he has sejiri steppe in hand to get past my copy.
G3: I get chalice down with some beaters, but take a lot of damage from tomb. He makes a 20/20 but my board pressure is too much.
1-0
R2: turbo dephts
Lose the die roll
G1: urborg + depths + hexmage = very dead
G2: he puts needle on wasteland, I put revoker on hexmage, of which he has three. I have metamorph in hand but miss the play to copy his needle for stage and he goes eot crop rotation into stage to make a 20/20. Could potentially have won this if I was paying more attention.
1-1
R3: Sneaky show
Win the die roll
G1: show and tell into grisel on turn 2 and I am dead
G2: he manages to get a sneak attack down, flashes in emrakul to wipe my board and hit me to 1. Luckily I still have a factory with land and I proceed to hit him for 2 every turn until I rip a revoker two turns after to seal the deal.
G3: he plays show and tell with island and tomb to get omniscience down. I put a lodestone intoplay so he can’t cast anything. In my turn I waste his tomb and swing for 8, he pyroclasms my board except for lodestone. I hit for 5 and he goes ponder into lotus petal into through the breach with nothing.
2-1
Main event:
R1: grixis delver
No idea who won the roll
I don’t have a lot of notes from this match, but he mulled in games 2 and 3. I remember these 3 games being fairly close
1-0
R2: deathblade
Win the die roll
G1: I have chalice on 1, a revoker runs into a blue ambush viper but after that the robot pressure is too much for him.
G2: He mulls to 6, goes DRS into stoneforge to get batterskull. I don’t have metamorph or champion so I die to the germ.
G3: He mulls to 6 again, I land a karn turn 2 which effectively ends the game.
2-0
R3: grixis delver
No idea who won the roll
G1: chalice on 1 with two overseer and a creature quickly ends the game.
G2: I get some early beats, then ravager takes him from 12 to 0
3-0
R4: grixis delver (I think)
No idea who won the roll
Again I have very few notes of this match, it also wasn’t clear to me if he was pure grixis delver or a more controllish build. I saw pyromancer, wasteland and gurmag angler but also baleful strix. He also had izzet staticaster postboard. I do remember making a mistake in game 2 which cost me the game, but I won games 1 and 3
4-0
R5: lands
Win the die roll
G1: he accidentally shows a mox diamond, so I know the deck involves a certain 20/20. He mulls game 1, I have chalice on 1 and proceed to beat face.
G2: I start with leyline in play, start my first two turns with chalice on 1 and spyglass on stage. He grips both the chalice and spyglass and almost gets back in the game by crop rotating for chasm and playing drop of honey. Luckily I had been sandbagging a wasteland for the chasm to swing for lethal. I also still had karakas and bridge as backup in my hand.
5-0
R6: czech pile
No idea who won the roll
I win games 1 and 3. In game 2 a karn gets hymned together with overseer. He admitted that he would have scooped if the karn hit play because he has no way of getting rid of it and it nets too much cards. G3 I won by playing spyglass on scalding tarn, effectively preventing him from ever getting to three mana for his K-commands.
6-0
R7: storm
Win the die roll
G1: I have chalice on 1 with a very fast clock. I only saw island and swamp so I wasn’t sure what I was playing against. I assumed it was control to I took out thorns but left in the golems.
G2: I keep a hand with a reasonable clock but without any real disruption. He fetches for island and swamp like G1 and cantrips a bit, then gets volcanic on turn 4 and goes cabal ritual, cabal ritual, dark petition, etc.
G3: thorns go back in the deck and I go turn 1 thorn, turn 2 chalice on 1 and revoker on LED, turn 3 chalice on 0 with another revoker in hand. Nuff said.
7-0
R8: grixis delver
Lose the die roll
G1: I get chalice on 1 to resolve and he scoops as soon as I play a clock.
G2: the combination of quick delver beats, wastelands, TNN and ancient grudge create a pretty much unwinnable game.
G3: don’t remember what exactly happened, but this game was very close and I had the feeling I could lose at any moment.
8-0
Day 2, given that I was not selected for a feature match on day 1 I figured I would be on feature in the first round of day 2. I wasn’t wrong.
R9: grixis delver (feature match):
Lose the die roll.
I get the first deck check of the day, everything was fine.
You can see everything on the video, but the main thing was that my game 1 thorn did absolutely nothing because he just played creatures. Game 2 I probably should either have mulled the hand or played the ratchet bomb first instead of the overseer. Normally I have a pretty good chance then to draw another land for the vault skirge and get going from there. Sadly I don’t see any lands anymore before I die. Mistakes were made…
8-1
R10: grixis delver
Lose the die roll
I win G1 and G3 because of him mulliganing to 6 and me having lifelink beats.
9-1
R11: moon stompy (Gary Campbell)
Lose the die roll
G1: for the first time in day 2 I have a sol land + chalice with some other good stuff so I keep. Then gary starts the game with tomb, chalice on 1. Luckily I have overseer + 2 ballista to keep shooting and swinging despite a bridge.
G2: turn 2 karn seals the deal.
10-1
R12: tin fins
Lose the die roll
I get my second deck check of the day. My deck is still fine, but my opponent gets a warning because of marked cards. Apparently some sleeves were from a different pack, which caused their sides to stand out in the main deck as lines. He changes the sleeves and asks the judge to check and the judge gives us the all-clear.
G1: he mulls to 5 and I have double overseer plus skirge. Just before they can get completely out of hand he gets emrakul into play via shallow grave to clear most of my board and knock me to 1. I keep a 3/3 overseer and a revoker in play to beat him to death in a few turns.
When we’re done sideboarding I notice the same kind of lines in his deck, so we call a judge to check. Turns out all of his sideboard cards were from the other pack of sleeves so they stand out against the main deck. The judges apologised as they felt this was also partly their fault (they checked maindeck and sideboard separately) for not checking this during the first deck check, but due to the rules they cannot downgrade it and he gets a game loss.
11-1
R13: elves
Lose the die roll
G1: he plays forest, DRS so I know it’s probably elves. I land chalice on 1 to stop him from doing broken stuff. He later goes eot fetch for dryad arbor, zenith for ranger, tap arbor and forest, bounce forest to untap arbor, replay forest and tap forest and arbor to play order into hoof. I go to 3 and I chump the hoof for a few turns while killing his other remaining creatures. If I topdeck a non-tomb land (I’m at 2 life) I can play etched champion or lodestone golen to kill his hoof or eternally chump it. I topdeck ancient tomb.
G2: I get an active jitte on turn 2, which is later destroyed by reclamation sage but the damage is done. I play walking ballista to mop up the rest and win from there.
G3: chalice on 1 faces of against DRS like in game one, but now revoker and a few others join the party and his plays are hindered too much by the chalice.
12-1
R14: czech pile (feature match)
Lose the die roll
G1 is not on the feature, which is a real shame as it featured a metamorph copying a leovold. Considering my deck is not bothered too much by leovold this ends up winning me the game.
G2: too many kolaghan’s command form my deck to handle and I took a lot of damage from tomb. Especially the vault skirges with the tomb really hurt, but I needed to advance my board. The spyglass on delta could have worked out pretty good with the lifegain from fair if he hadn’t topdecked another fetch right then.
G3: to react to the comments: I wasn’t playing around daze. My plan with karn usually involves playing some threats or lockpieces to get counters out of their hand first and then follow up with karn to restock. When I noticed he missed his land drop and I didn’t draw any good alternative to cast I decided to give it a go anyways. Tapping the wasteland was a mistake which luckily didn’t cost me the game.
13-1
R15: ID
13-1-1
QF: grixis delver (feature match)
I’m on the play
G1: all in all I think I played this one correctly. Perhaps jitte was also an option in game 1, but that would’ve required me to sac my thorn. Another route was to sac thorn to ballista as well to take out the deathrite to quicken my clock, but in every scenario I would’ve died to bolt before I could kill him.
G2: I can see definitely why you would keep the first hand, but if the chalice gets countered you have a very slow hand all of a sudden with factories as the only beaters. So I decided I wanted a hand that does not completely depend on chalice resolving. Turns out he did not have the force anyway.
G3: I did not want to give him extra mana, so no wasteland activation. The commentators were really going on about not playing the factory, but at that point it’s a bit unnecessary and I would only be giving him more mana to work with because of the city dying. Similarly I didn’t want to play metamorph because he was dying anyway and if he counters it he could eat the creature with deathrite to gain life. I do admit I should have been a bit more aggressive with champion to end the game quicker.
14-1-1
SF: moon stompy (feature match)
I’m on the play
G1 was fine, G2 is one massive tilt and G3 was a bit of bad luck (my outs for the last draw I took were ballista and ratchet bomb). I do think it might have been better to make a token with karn immediately instead of upticking, but there’s no way I could have guessed he was going to play spyglass. Also the cards karn revealed were the worst possible options in that situation. Revoker on hazoret was because of ensnaring bridge. In testing this is what killed me most of the times because they can empty their hand for bridge. If you have a sphere effect often they are stuck with a card or two and you can sneak in damage under a bridge.
14-2-1
Second side event
R1: dredge
Lose the die roll
G1: I mull to 4, dredge does what dredge does best
G2: I have a ravager to get rid of bridges and a thorn to prevent flashbacs after a wasteland. Vault skirge with 2 overseer races 3 ichorids and 2 narcomoeba.
G3: I start with leyline and she didn’t board in enchantment removal.
1-0
R2: land tax
Lose the die roll
G1: plays land tax forces my chalice and gain a ton of value via land tax plus scroll rack. I die to RIP + helm.
G2: I get some creatures including ravager and 2 ballista in play. He has two tapped lands and an uncracked fetch at 18 life. I quickly calculate I can do 17 damage in total so I have to rely on him cracking the fetch. I swing with everything, he decides to crack the fetch and swords my ravage so I sac everything except ballista to ravage and ravage to himself. He dies to ballista combat damage plus ballista activations. Turns out he had energy field in hand so if he hadn’t fetched I would’ve been locked out of the game.
G3: he mulls and I have chalice. Robots do the rest.
2-0
R3: ID for best price support for the both of us
Turns out this was the mirror. We played a game for fun, which I won thanks to revoker on his steel overseer, vault skirge and ravage which race a lodestone golem.
2-0-1
Awesome report and congrats on the amazing finish. Any changes you'd make to the deck after running it through a long event?
Not really, I played in a 50-people tournament last sunday with the same list. I'm going to test some versions with traxos and karn maindeck and maybe one more golem, but for now I'm still really happy with this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Did not lose a match untill the finals where I lost against a good friend of mine who was on UW miracles (and is one of the best players of Belgium in my opinion).
Played six rounds of swiss
R1: grixis delver (2-1)
R2: BUG delver (2-0)
R3: moon stompy (2-0)
R4: UW control (2-0)
R5: ID
R6: ID
QF: UB delver (2-0)
SF: czech pile (2-0)
F: UW miracles (0-2)
Three of the matches are on camera: the first round game 3, SF and F.
The top 8 decklists should appear on MTGtop8 within the next few weeks.
There were 3 or 4 other steel stompy players, at least one was playing traxos. They also did relatively well but did not make it to top 8. The top 8 was UW miracles, steel stompy, czech pile, grixis delver, UB delver, BR reanimator, elves and goblins.
Hi first post here. Was going to ask the same thing, if it wouldn't be cool to run traxos in these type of steel stompy decklists.i I mean everyone talks about nu-Karn but Traxos is a 7/7 4 mana trampler, which exceed what the big beefs in the format are (Angler, goes thru TNN)
Hi,
Actually I'm not very sure about traxos. For sure it is a fast clock but with a field full of strix I don't know ... I mean it's not like all the other threat we have, they are all quite cheap so it's not a big deal to lose them compared to traxos.
On the other hand, even if it is blocked and deathtouched that will still be 6 dmg and you still have the option to have a balista to previously kill the strix.
It needs testing ! :p
My main problem with it is that it's a terrible topdeck later in the game. It enters the battlefield tapped and there is no real guarantee to untap it next turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by owerbart
That's why I think you have to run him together with karn. Then karn can provide the necessary cards to keep untapping him.
I get you. Congrats on your great finishes Johanovich :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
I'm trying to optimize a traxos build, currently trying either with a MUD base or with a Steel Stompy Base. I'll post the decklist when i have something cooked up.
Traxos is a great card but needs a dedicated build. I had some success with a 4x voltaic construct 4x traxos 4x grim monolith (and 4x karns md) build but it’s less explosive and too much dependant on getting 4 mana that’s not always easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by owerbart
I’m trying a skirge-less build with the 4th revoker +1 land +2 welding jar and 2x hangarback walkers instead of 2 thorns.
I found thorns a little too easy to play around. I kept 2 because it’s great vs miracles and combo decks leaving the other 2 in my sb.
Skirge is a cool card (somewhat unexpected) but it’s not a good topdeck and its impact on the game depends too much if you have an overseer or an equipment (I use sword of fire and ice but jitte is a valid option).
Still trying to figure how sb properly but deck is cool and I’m having a lot of fun with it lately
Here are some sideboarding strategies for some of the decks I’ve faced so far (they are somewhat flexible, so I don’t adhere strictly to this myself especially when it comes to siding stuff out). I'll add some more in the near future:
Vs grixis delver, UB delver and BUG delver (the more grindy delver decks with DRS)
-4 thorn
-3 revoker
-2 lodestone
+3 ensnaring bridge
+2 karn
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spellskite
Another option would be to only side in 2 bridge and cut metamorph if you want to keep lodestone in.
Vs burn and really aggro delver decks such as RUG delver and UR delver
-1 metamorph
-3 revoker
+2 spellskite
+2 ratchet bomb
Vs elves
-4 thorn
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spellskite
Vs death and taxes
-4 thorn
-1 metamorph
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spellskite
+1 spyglass
Vs sneaky show
-1 jitte
-2 etched champion
-4 vault skirge
+3 bridge
+2 spellskite
+2 spyglass
Vs storm
-2 etched champion
-1 metamorph
-1 jitte
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spellskite
Vs Czech pile, BUG control, grixis control
-3 revoker
-4 thorn
+2 spellskite
+2 karn
+2 ratchet bomb
+1 spyglass
Vs blade control
-3 revoker
-4 thorn
+2 spellskite
+2 karn
+1 ratchet bomb
+2 spyglass
Vs eldrazi (haven’t faced this yet, but this seems like a decent strategy)
-4 chalice
-4 thorn
+3 bridge
+2 spellskite
+2 karn
+1 ratchet bomb
Edit: forgot spellskites in delver matchups
Why do you prefer Karn, Scion of Urza instead of Spellskite against grindy Delver decks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
Thanks a lot for this information, Johanovich! I'd be interested to know how you would sideboard against Miracles, Mono-Red Prison, and Maverick too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
Haven't played against maverick yet. So not sure what the best sideboarding would be. I'd imagine spellskite and ratchet bomb coming in, maybe spyglass depending on their build. Thorns and metamorph probably go out.Quote:
Originally Posted by gngpostalsrvc
Vs Miracles and other UW control
-4 thorn
-1 metamorph
-3 revoker
+2 spellskite
+2 karn
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spyglass
Vs moon stompy
-4 chalice
-1 metamorph
-1 revoker
+2 karn
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spellskite
Usually postboard against decks with a lot of creature removal, I prefer to have spyglass over revokers as they provide info and are a bit more difficult to get off the table. A 2/1 isn't a very impressive body but you have to have it maindeck to not die to certain stuff. I boarded out all revokers in favor of spyglass against moon stompy in birmingham, but I've reconsidered in the meantime and I think I prefer the option of shutting down their manarocks as well as their planeswalkers. Their removal is abrade and fiery confluence anyway, and both revokers and spyglass die to those.
Some other matchups:
Vs the mirror
-4 chalice
-4 thorn
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spyglass
+2 spellskite
+2 karn
Vs sneaky show
-1 jitte
-2 etched champion
-4 vault skirge
+3 bridge
+2 spellskite
+2 spyglass
Vs infect
-1 metamorph
-1 vault skirge
-3 revoker
+2 spellskite
+2 spyglass
+1 ratchet bomb
Vs turbo depths
-4 thorn
-2 etched champion
-1 jitte
+2 spellskite
+2 sorcerous spyglass
+3 bridge
Vs dredge
-3 revoker
-1 metamorph
-2 etched champion
-2 vault skirge
+4 leyline
+2 spellskite
+2 ratchet bomb
Looks like I forgot to add a few lines to the strategy. Spellskite definitely should be in there as well. I'll edit my post to correct this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
I've read it, thank you very much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
What about to side out Karakas against grindy Delver decks? It's a pretty useless land against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
Yeah that would be a good alternative if you play 21 lands like my usual list. I personally wouldn't go down below 20 lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
Same goes for some of the other matchups where karakas is kinda useless.
This deck work with mox diamond?
I dont have mox opal
What will be the consequences of the ban of Deathrite Shaman and Gitaxian Probe for this deck?
Not as currently configured. You don't have enough actual lands to support it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickDoom
Deathrite? Mana denial is better. Probe? Combo is a little slower, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
All in all, a win for this deck.
less K Command is a big Win
More Miracles is a bit of a loss
We Need Sideboard changes, because this deck was Build (at least by me) to beat drs
I've been iffy about having Thorns in the mainboard, but after the bannings I have a feeling it'll be a lot easier to justify.
Agreed. I think the card I'll probably be flexing on is Revoker. DRS was my #1 revoker target on a lot of occasions.Quote:
Originally Posted by aromaticity
FNM Report
Greetings,
So a quick background, I played Legacy affinity for years but recently took about 5 years off from Legacy due to legacy community where I was playing and amount of time I could play magic. But a month ago I got really excited about getting back into Legacy here in Chicago. So I built up an affinity list and wasnt happy with it. I've always wanted to play STAX in vintage and once I saw Steel Stompy I really wanted to play that too. So given that, I have not acquired all the cards yet but here's my list to date:
4x Ravager
3x Etched Champion
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
3x Walking Balista
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Cranial Plating
3x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Ancient Tomb
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
3x Wasteland
Sideboard:
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
2x Spellskite
4x Tormod's Crypt
2x Ensaring Bridge
3x Winter Orb
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Round 1: RUG 2-0
My opening 7 was pretty week to a lot of decks, not lock pieces, just creatures and mana. I ended up double wastelanding him and equipinging a Jitte onto a Champ. He never got to 2 mana and struggled to keep up with me.
Game 2 i sol land into Chalice, he FOWs. I got Thorn on turn 2 and then play 2 skirge's. They beat down for a while until he flips a delver. I drop ravager and sac a few lands to make one of them a 4/4. I ride that to victory.
Round 2: RUG 1-2
He opens with Delver into Delver and then turn 4 mongoose. Oh, also had daze and FOW to stop anything relevant I tried to do...
Game 2 I stick 2 golems off some fast mana and he has 2 delvers again. I slam a spellskite and than eats up a few bolts. Then I finally find a champ and ride that in for the win. I debated a ton during this game of trading my 5/3 for a 3/2 flier. Eventually I just slammed in because it would've been lethal if he didnt block. But I feel the tax of golem on him was pretty harsh.Thoughts here?
Game 3 I had no chance, I mulled to 5 and turn 2 ancient grudge on my vault of whispers didnt help at all. So I got run over by a flipped delver and tarmo.
Round 3: Miracles 2-0
My opponent is pretty solid player and incredibly nice guy. He was the first person to greet me into the Legacy community via FB when I was digging around for places to play. We've played over 20 games together over past few weeks so he thinks he can crush me. But I read @Johanovich posts and learned how to play the deck better vs Miracles. =)
Anyways, game 1 he terminus on turn 3 getting rid of my 2 skirge's and an overseer. My hand was stacked so I slammed champ and a plating to ride that to victory.
Game 2 was a ton of life loss to Ancient Tomb but after 2 terminus I find a plating on a skirge and ride that to victory. Jamming 2 threats and waiting for them to deal with them seems like the best line of play. But definitely a high skill match.
Round 4: Burn 2-1
Playing for prizes here. We only pay out for X-1
Game one I go waste, petal, petal, chalice of the void. She stares at me and says, "What deck are you on... oh and I can't beat that." Scoops
Game 2, I'm pretty sure I misplayed here. I raced an Eidolon and a Goblin Guide with 2 skirge, a champ and a Sofi. He had a timely Smash to Smithereens on my Sofi too. I never killed the Eidolon because I felt she had to keep taking life from it to. Fireblast to the face ended the game.
Game 3 was insane. I literally ended the game on turn 20 with a chalice on 1, 2 and 3. I had 2 golems, spellskite, 2 champs, 4 overseers and 3 skirge's in my hand. She had her 3 bridge down and a seal of fire. I finally rip a balista and ride that to victory over the next 2 turns with 8 overseer activations and a ton of mana. Well fought battle for 5th place.
I ended up picking of 20 packs in store credit for my efforts.
Cards I acquired / changed.
I took out Tezz for 2 ratchet bomb
I have 4 leyline of the void in the mail
I will pickup the 4th wasteland and thorn some time this week in Chicago. The store's I've been to didnt have the tempest ones in stock.
I added in 2 rachet bombs as well. They seem soooooo good in a meta full of RUG.
Picking up City of Traitors will have to wait a few months, hopefully build up enough store credit to get one or two and then snag the last 2 on a splurge.
It's definitely playable with mox diamond. I have been running diamond over opal for the last month or so because opal felt very lack luster (no T1 mana, very fragile to disruption, redundant copies are almost as bad as diamond), and I've also found it to be a less fragile source of mana (removal turns off metalcraft quite easily in this deck since there aren't enough 0-drops like modern affinity). The correct configuration is likely some sort of split of mox diamond/opal/petal but I haven't tested that out just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickDoom
I'm testing out a rather spicy list atm that includes 3 karn, 2 traxos, 2 jitte, 2 smugglers copters, 3 mox diamonds, and 3 thorn and man it's a hoot. Smuggler's copter is actually quite good in this deck, and I think it really should be tested more as a filter option (cycles extra opals/diamonds and is an aggressive flyer)
What changes are you thinking of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
I don't think you want to remove too many revokers. If stoneblade and goblins are gonna make a comeback then you want to be able to revoke vial, jitte, stoneforge, jace, trashmaster and some other stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Spoonerman
Personally I don't like the looter scooter. I've tried it for a while before switching to champion. I thought the idea of shutting something down with revoker and then using that revoker to crew was great, but I ended up not really liking the card because it costs more with thorns and often got stuck in my hand because everything else just felt better to cast. I'm ok with paying extra for a jitte because that card is just bonkers as soon as it gets active, but the same cannot be said for copter in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mambosong
What are people's thoughts on some combination of Tangle Wire, Winter Orb and/or Sphere of Resistance in the 75 for Men of Steel, post-ban?
Tangle Wire has been unplayable in Legacy outside of decks like Stax that use the ~2 turns it buys you to set up a hardlock for years. Nothing has changed there.Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginaryunit
Sphere of Resistance is a significantly worse as two mana disruption than Chalice and Thorn. Only a consideration if the post-ban format turns out to be sooooo heavy in fast combo decks that you absolutely want more then 8 of these effects. And even in that case I'd probably play some other form of combo hate as relying only on artifact hate leaves you open to counter-hate like Hurkyl's Recall.
Winter Orb is the most likely of the three to play a role, depending on the number and form of the control decks we will see. But if you want to use Winter Orb in those match-ups, you will probably have to think about changing the mana base as Winter Orb and manlands do not mix.
All three also suffer from being non-creature spells. The deck relies on the synergies between its creatures. During deck construction as well as during boarding, you can't just cut creatures for spells. No matter how many Winter Orbs, Chalice of the Voids and Thorn of Amethyst you have, if your only clock is one Vault Skirge or one Arcbound Ravager, the opponent will draw his answers before you kill him.
So this coming weekend I'm attending a team event with 2 buddies. It's a mix of standard, modern and legacy and I'm piloting Steel Stompy.
Here's my current list:
4x Ravager
2x Etched Champion
2x Lodestone Golem
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
3x Walking Balista
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Cranial Plating
3x Lotus Petal
3x Mox Opal
1x SoFI
4x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Darksteel Citadel
2x Inventor's Fair
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Wasteland
Sideboard:
2x Spellskite
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Karn, Scion of Urza
Since I don't have a karakas or City of Traiitors, I've decided on this mana compilation.
My question is, would wastes, crystal vein, seat of synod or an additional citadel be best to replace them (for the time being).
Also, any input on the list is welcome as well.
I think I'd play Blinkmoth Nexus or Crystal Vein before Seat of the Synod, or maybe even the 4th Petal. T1 chalice is a lot better than t2. Tho if you want artifact lands, Vault of Whispers would make more sense as we have black cards but not blue.
This deck isn't quite like Bomberman or Eldrazi stompy, where you're planning on consistently casting 3+ CMC cards. Because of that and because of how many two drops we run, I think City of Traitors 'fits' better in this deck than in other stompy shells. I can have a hand of 2x City of Traitors as my only land, and although not ideal, it's perfectly serviceable and will lead to a very explosive opener.
Given that, I think Crystal Vein seems like a pretty serviceable budget replacement. I also like the suggestion of maxing out on Lotus Petal.
I'm currently running Johanovich's GP list with Hangarback Walkers over the Champions and Metamorph and +1 land -1 petal (though I think I'm going switch back to 3 petal) and it's absolutely stellar. I definitely liked the Champions and Metamorph as options, especially since Metamorph has a lot of unexpected utility as a tutor target, but I'm going for a more consistent/focused MB I guess. Walker serves a similar purpose to Champion in that it's an amazing card vs fair decks, but it also provides a bit of extra utility here and there - resistance to board wipes, combo potential with Ravager, extra fliers vs stuff like Marit Lage. I also think being a potential two drop is a pretty big bonus given what I mentioned above about City of Traitors.
I've read a big part of the thread, but i couldn't find anything about Gaea's Cradle, Master of Etherium and the new card Sai, Master Thopterist.
What's your opinion on these cards? On first sight they look strong... Guys, your advice is much appreciated!
Thanks @aslidsiksoraksi and @aromaticity. Both comments make total sense to me. I was able to find 4 Crystal Veins in town so I'll run those this weekend. I'm super pumped and excited to see how our team, and specifically I, fair.
Gaea's Cradle does not help to cast T1 Chalice, Thorn or even a two drop creature. This deck is not elves. You don't have any one mana creatures to flood the board with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Headshot
Master of Etherium and Sai, Master Thopterist both require a blue splash. Yes the deck can support splash colors, but they come at the cost of consistency. Master of Etherium can be good, but only in match-ups where you don't have to worry about sweepers from the opponent. This deck does not play like Affinity. You are not a rush-em-Aggro-style of deck. The list does not have as many random free artifacts (Artifact Lands, Springleaf Drum etc.) as Affinity so your Masters will never be as big or as good as in Affinity, unless you have already popped a Hangarback Walker for 5+ but in that case you have 5+ Thopters, just kill your opponent.
Sai has only been released today, so probably very little testing has been done with him so far. I think he will be stronger in a Tezzerator style deck then in here. First there's the splash/consistency issue again. Than he does not play well with the way the deck wants to curve out. You want to play T1 disruption, T2 Overseer, T3 2 artifact creatures in the best case scenario. In order to do so, you will need to often play you're artifact acceleration early before you have the time to play Sai. He doesn' fit well into the curve outlined. If you play him on T2, your Overseer won't be active till T4. If you play him on T3 after Overseer or Hangarback, you further reduce the pay off you gain from the ability. Also Sai himself is not an artifact creature, so it has negative synergy with Overseer and Ravager. There is a reason why the deck plays zero non-artifact spells.
All valid points!
Didn't realize this was already a thread.
Vintage Ravager Shops is dominating whereas in legacy, the deck completely failed to launch.
I think the deck should stick as close to Vintage Ravager Shops (and Dragon Stompy) as possible, stay low casting cost and play tons of disruption, if it wants to make a mark on the format...
Here is what I would go with...
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Foundry Inspector
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Metalworker
2 Walking Ballista
Other cards to consider...
Chief of the Foundry
Phyrexian Metamorph
Phyrexian Revoker
Umejawa's Jitte
Tangle Wire
Fleetwheel Cruiser
Karn, Scion of Urza
What do you mean by "completely failed to launch"? It's already a good legacy deck and it's been putting up decent results both pre- and post-ban:Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Probe-Banning
Just ignore him.... He also claims that the way to go is to stay with low casting costs while at the same time posting a list that has 8 3drops and 12 4drops resulting in an average converted mana cost of 1,93 while dropping down to 16 land + 6 mana artifacts...Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
Just for comparisons sake to show how absurd his post is: the more standard lists run 0-2 3drops (Etched Champion) and 4-6 4drops (Lodestone Golem and sometims Karn, Scion of Urza) resulting in an average converted mana cost of about 1,2 and still playing 21 lands + 6mana artifacts... He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
Hey Everyone,
Went 3-1 last night with a fairly unorthodox list as I wanted to test some cards that I haven't seen listed by anyone and so far they have felt amazing.
Here are the match-ups
2-0/2-1 (I can't remember): Black Eldrazi
2-0: Rug Delver
2-0: Lands
1-2: S&S
Here's the list
4x Steel overseer
4x Ravager
4x walking ballista
2x Revoker
1x Vault Skirge
2x Traxos
2x hangarback walker
2x Smuggler's Copter
3x Karn Scion of Urza
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Jitte
3x Mox Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Inventor's Fair
3x Darksteel citadel
Karn is the real deal as many of us have concluded to, I think it is essential to play darksteel citadel especially with more goyfs running around as it grows our token by 1 (which has a large significance)
I have stated my opinion here before, but I played with mox diamonds instead of opals because opals have consistently under-performed for me in the past. Mox diamond helps us a lot to bust out T1 Chalices and T2 Karns very consistently.
Smuggler's copter was an MVP that night, the extra card filtering is very relevant in a deck that otherwise has no card selection. To be able to turn lands into threats and vice-versa when needed gives some resilience against hate.
Jitte was very great against the RUG delver and eldrazi match ups
Traxos has been win more so far, usually by the time i resolve him I have already won the game. I want to test more with him, as I did get a concessional win from just resolving him when hell bent.
That's a fair opinion, I've been actually playing it turn 1 more often than I'd expected, only to follow it up with revoker-swing-loot, and then another 2 drop. I only play 2 which I think is the perfect number. The flying is super nice since it can carry a jitte over goyfs while getting some real damage in to race. But honestly, the card selection helps with the mid game grind a ton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
What's the plan if white decks start packing Stony Silence. It seems like DnT and Maverick may be on the rise. Obv they need to play around their vials and equipment. But miracles could also jam Stony. Do we just ignore it and beat with construct tokens from karn and golems?
Aside from the fact that anyone can play Null Rod; you do what any good aggro deck does and beat them to death. Also DnT isn't likely to play Null Rod, far more likely to come out of a Delver deck or even miracles than DnT/Maverick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Lamp