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Long time since I played loam, I would like to use it again.
Has anyone tested GSZ? REALLY tested, not sth like 'it's awesome/ it sucks' I mean. I think it could go really well in this deck, as you can play a big monster on turn 3, or fetch a big monster afterwards. Furthermore, you can run it with chalice MD and have 8 turn one plays.
I have tested it. It was mediocre, because you can only really run 1, max 2. I added a Dryad Arbor, and used only Ooze/Terravore MD, and Loaming Shaman SB. I basically did add it only for the Loaming Shaman, and it was good every time i needed it, because even turn 3/4, it's nice to reset the dredge player, when Ooze is just not enough the previous turn.
But unfortunately, sometimes getting to turn 3/4 is rough, and without Mox Diamond, it's a problem, but there is always that.
Either way, I don't think many people like it, and it's not really worth it, because you have to warm your MD a bit around it.
I still don't like Chalice, because I think Lightning Bolt is so great.
Came back after a long hiatus and picked this deck back up for our local legacy and made 3rd with it. I didn't have any Noxious Revivals, but I am curious what they're used for? Are they there just to save your Loams from gettign Extracted? Thanks.
Save your Loams; bring back Ooze, Pulse, Assault in counter heavy matchups, etc.
-Matt
It is really good when people are trying to extract your loams but not when they are trying to extirpate them. It really just plays as a random utility cars and a pseudo-mirage tutor in the mid-late game.
I think another honorable mention goes to Chalice these days in that it stops most of the graveyard hate people are packing now i.e. Extraction and Extirpate.
True, but then your bolts get fucked. Now, this is not to say I won't try it again, but cutting things is hard :(
-Matt
This is a report from SCG Des Moine with a 150 player showing. Not all of it may be accurate completely accurate, but the results are. I played tony's list only with ancient grudge instead of krosan grip. I ended up placing 19th, just short of tiebreakers to the top 16.
Edit: Sorry for all the grammatical and misplaced sentence structure. Didn't feel like taking too much time on this report.
Round One: burn
Game 1: Guy suspends rift bolt and I know it is a race. I bolt him to the face turn one because my hand is all tempo. I proceed to win the race with Tarmogoyf.
-1 seismic, -1 crusher +2 orb
Game 2: I have seismic in my hand and an orb. He plays sulfuric vortex on his third turn (naturally playing first), and I knew I needed to land seismic to win the race, so orb didn't do anything. He got there just before I did with a fireblast.
Game 3: (forgot to include this game) I played a turn 1 dark confidant and an orb. He didn't burn the confidant and died to it.
1-0
Round two: MUD.
This game was me making a stupid mistake of killing a wurm coil engine that comes down turn 2 with seismic assault while not killing welder because I wanted to draw into my out and let my crusher live instead of blocking the wurm coil. Either way I would have been dead with out an out to a token, but I feel I should have killed the welder after the fact.
-2 tarmogoyf
Game 2 he plays turn 2 hasted metalworker for 8 mana into monolith into lodestone golem and forgemaster and I don't have ancient grudge until my dredge with loam..
1-1
Round three: maverick
Game 1 was a long game of me drawing answers and lands, but no threats. 35 minutes later, I had 4 land in my library and 3 creatures drawn, total.
-4 goyf
+2 perish +2 ancient grudge
Game 2 was another long game involving engineered explosives destroy jitte, then maelstrom pulse mopping up two knights and beating in with multiple very large crushers.
Game 3 didn't happen. Opponent complains about drawing.
1-1-1
Round 4: BWR zombies w/tombstalker
Game 1: I beat his early tombstalker with double lightning bolt and eat him with a 5/6 tarmogoyf.
-1 mox -2 tranquil thicket -1 crusher -1 goyf
+1 nihil spellbomb +2 noxious revival +2 surgical extraction
Game 2: He mulls to five and draw perfectly into tombstalker and, crawler, and carrion feeder and I draw no removal. He also casts tragic slip on bob.
Game 3: He casts crawler, and 2 bloodghasts. He taps out turn 4 for something I don't remember. I bolt his crawler, play a ooze and eat the crawler. I let him beat me down with bloodghasts, so his tragic slips are dead. I dredge into creatures and play a few more to seal the deal.
2-1-1
Round 5: Esper Stoneblade
Game 1: We both mull. I cast turn 1 bob, turn 2 bob, tarmogoyf, ooze, and crusher. I stupidly remove lingering souls and brainstorm before attacking so goyf is small, creatures and card advantage get there.
-1 mox diamond, -2 tranquil thicket, -2 goyf, -1 seismic assault
+2 pyroblast, +2 noxious revival, +1 anicent grudge, +1 surgical extraction
Game 2: I don't recall how most of this game goes, but I believe jitte did me in. He tries to extract loam but I cycle a land.
Game 3: Opponent mulls to five with one land. I have no threats, but wasteland him out. I eventually kill him with creatures.
Note: I don't know if this opponent actually honestly thought this or not, what happened seemed fishy at the end: He tried to force a draw by telling the judge next to us that it was 1-1 when it was 2-1 me. I generally don't keep notes besides a Me-You life total pad. I do reveal all three note pages, but they are the same as all the rest from the previous matches. After about thirty seconds of insisting it was 1-1, he remembers the match he lost and apologizes. Has something like this ever happened to you guys?
3-1-1
Round 6... or was it 7? can't recall: Esper Stonebloat.
Game 1: Stoneblade into batterskull into second stoneblade with jitte with force backup. I scoop after the first swing.
Same strategy for sideboarding above except +1 ancient grudge because it is an academy ruin version.
Game 2 and 3 could be switched. I can't recall.
Game 2: Opponent mulls. An extremely well timed explosives allows me prevent my death and kill him with seismic.
Game 3: I take 10 damage from a snapcaster mage while I toy with his mana base, preventing a jitte from coming down. Game gamestate finally comes with me at 2 life and him at 5 life with 2 souls and a jace and him tapped out to my very large crushers. I ignore jace and force blocks and win from there.
Round 6 or 7 (can't recall) : Vial Angel Stompy
Game 1: Opponent proceeds to play vial into mom, which was bolted. I then made a mistake and swung into jotun grunt with my ooze ( I did think about jotun grunt, but I didn't think he played more then 2 in his opening and it looked like he was setting up for a stoneforge mystic in the way he played his lands). He then plays his stoneforge mystic and a serra avenger (my favorite angel :)) and he equips with jitte and sword of feast and famine. I draw maelstrom pulse and died.
-2 goyf +2 grudge
Game 2: This was an extremely long game where I answered his jotun grunts with ooze and equipment with grudge and hit him down to four, but he stabilized with swords (on a crusher that were the size of skyscrapers) and flickerwhisps, thalia and avenger due to two moms on the table. Thalia slowed the game to a crawl. I eventually overtake the game with maelstrom pulse, engineered explosves (which I was saving since my opening hand), and a grim lavamancer.
Game 3: Didn't happen. Deck really can durdle sometimes.
4-1-2
Round 8: I played an invisible opponent that the judge thought wasn't invisbile, but was instead too short to be seen from above the table.
5-1-2
I preferred the ancient grudges and didn't regret having them all day. They were extremely relevant. I hate that the deck can durdle on removal and land and I think it could use a third seismic to finish the game faster in stalemates. I also feel like it needed a maze of ith, but that could be my opinion from dieing to collosus and batterskull with jitte.
I would never go down to 2 Seismics in a million years, I just love having three far to much.
-Matt
As much as I don't play seismic at all I have to agree that if you play 1 you play at least 3.
Anyways, I'm going to try playing 3 Chalice in the board over our REB's (or in my case, 2 discard and 1 Crucible of Worlds, since the Crucible is there for the control matchups anyways...).
I'll let y'all know how it goes. Basically, my line of thinking is Chalice comes in during the Stoneblade and RUG Delver/burn/Tempo matchups.
-Matt
Don't they keep in Spell Snare against you?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I've asked me Esperblade opponents, and most of them don't seem to be running all 4. And, if they are, they say countering Loam usually isn't worth it, so they cut down on them anyway.
If this is a legitimate boarding strategy, bringing in 2-drops isn't necessarily a bad deal.
-Matt
Seems like they should counter your Bobs, Goyfs, Oozes and possible Grudges unless you're light on land and they're tempoing you to death. Matt, I want your opponents.
Against RUG, Chalice is huge if it resolves, but that deck has too many ways to keep it off the board. I would just run more 1cc removal instead. Chain Lightning.
Still, there's already enough two drops for them to counter, whether or not they keep them all in or not. They might actually Ponder or something Turn 1, allowing you to gank them on your Turn 2, or they cast something irrelevant, and you gank them.
The part of it I don't like it shutting off YOUR effective removal. Ex. Bolt, Deathmark, Noxious Revival, etc.
-Matt
In my experience, Chalice is rarely as crushing against RUG as you want it to be. After the first couple of turns, a lot of their 1cc cards start precipitously losing value, and you simply don't care about them anymore. It's the first 2-3 turns of the game that are the roughest (the place where Stifles and fast beats are the best), and you have better ways to control that than Chalice - more removal, careful fetching, Mox Diamond, etc.
Most of the RUG decks have dropped their Stifles in favour of other crap. More burn, Spell Pierce, etc. I think Chalice may still be decent.
As well, Esperblade HAS dropped most of their Snares, it wasn't my imagination. Why run Snare when you can run Inquisition, seems to be the general consensus. Most are running 2, and even Delver isn't always playing them (opting for Pierces at times).
Point being? Chalice may actually be decent enough to run. The tricky part comes into play regarding how many of our 1-drops to cut if we are going to bring Chalice in. If Chalice never lands, you don't want to nut yourself by boarding efficient removal out, yet, if it does land and stay, you don't want a hand full of now-useless cards.
-Matt
So I hear some of y'alls may be going to SCG Phoenix. What are you planning on playing?
-Matt
My ride just had a change of plans, so barring me being able to set something up tonight, I'll be playing nothing. Assuming I do get up there, though, I'll be playing something similar to what I took to the local event, but with a different spell mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Feel like trying my mix and seeing what you think?
2 Deathmark
2 Terminate
1 Putrefy
3 Lightning Bolt
Plus, you get to see people's faces when you maindeck Deathmark them, and they say, "In the main? What the fuck?" But, then you get to give no fucks, since you're winning :)
-Matt