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Commander 2013 :
Widespread Panic (Rare)
2R
Enchantment
Whenever a spell or ability causes its controller to shuffle his or her library, that player puts a card from his or her hand on top of his or her library.
Could this be a good hate piece for dragon stompy ("Perfect" mana cost)?
The first thing that comes to mind : it is very strong against fetchlands. The "problem" is that moon effects are already strong against fetchlands (if landed on the very first turns).
Any thoughts ?
Played two more local tournaments with the deck:
Tournament 1:
Played this one with a different list as I wanted to try out Hound of Griselbrand and Jitte in place of Koth/Bonfire.
R1: Goblins 0-2
R2: Imperial Painter 1-2
R3: Bye 2-0
R4: Elves 2-1
R5: Sneak&Show 2-1
The Hound definitely has potential. Especially against decks with creatures, that are not trying to swarm you, I think it can be a really nice alternative. Even against Goblins he was a very nice speed bump for a couple of turns, but without a Jitte it couldn't stop the horde. I never once got the dream of pitchfork-wielding hound in play :(. Against Imperial Painter it should have been 2-0 for me, but I misplayed my Ratchet Bomb and threw a game he should have never had a chance in, before being manascrewed in the third.
Tournament 2:
Went back to my basic list but added a Murderous Redcap as another tutor target besides Settler/Scrapper.
R1: ANT 2-0
R2: Miracles 2-0
R3: ANT 2-0
R4: Imperial Painter 0-2
Both my ANT opponents were kind of angry at me after the games. I think in all four games combined they played perhaps 1.5 spells/game on average. The match-up seems to be quite favorable, especially if you know what you are playing against and can mulligan accordingly. I'm not sure about the Redcap. In theory it provides the ability to put damage on a planeswalker or a flipped Delver etc without the additional investment of 2 mana needed to fling a token with a tutored up SGC, but I don't know if these situations come up often enough for it to be worth the slot.
As for the new card from Commander 2013: I think it can be nice, but I probably would not play it over the disruption effects of Moon/Trini/Chalice. Maybe in the board if you for some reason want additional hate cards. Also it is probably better suited for a list with werewolves or Raider/Pit Dragon than the Moggcatcher builds to make it always one sided.
So, I was gonna post this report from SCG Milwaukee last week, but things got really busy. Sorry about that.
Here's what I ran:
11x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Moggcatcher
3x Siege-Gang Commander
3x Flametongue Kavu
2x Rakka Mar
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Blood Moon
3x Trinisphere
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Koth of the Hammer
SIDEBOARD:
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Anarchy
3x Confusion in the Ranks
3x Pyrokinesis
1x Koth of the Hamemr
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
Now, I know I played poorly. The day before I made top 8 in the Standard portion, so I was both still tired from that and not too worried if I lost, which probably made me keep more mediocre hands than I should have. Oh, well. At least I had fun.:smile:
Round 1 - Ben on Dark Maverick
G1 - I managed to land a Trinisphere and had nothing to back it up.
G2 - I land a Blood Moon, then proceed to win via Moggcatcher.
G3 - I remember this being a back and forth game with me eventually hardcasting Siege-Gang and riding it to victory.
W 1-0 (2-1)
Round 2 - Jacob on Sneak and Show
G1 - I, not knowing what he's on, land the Turn 0 Blood Moon. He proceeds to go Island, Island, Volcanic Island, Show and Tell into Emrakul.
G2 - I manage to apply a little bit of pressure with a Phyrexian Revoker followed by a Moggcatcher. He Pyroclasms and then Sneak Attacks Griselbrand and then Emrakul. This guy actually got first at the Open, so I'm not too worried about this one.
L 1-1 (2-3)
Round 3 - Feline on High Tide
G1 - I have the T1 Chalice, but she has Force of Will. I get no more Chalices or Trinispheres and lose T4.
G2 - Again, I have the T1 Chalice that gets Forced. I can't find anything else that's relevant and lose T4 again.
L 1-2 (2-5)
Round 4 - Gene on Punishing Jund
G1 - Blood Moon!
G2 - Magus of the Moon!
W 2-2 (4-5)
Round 5 - Curt on RWU Delver
G1 - A little bit of back and forth here until he gets a Grim Lavamancer out with a Insectile Abberation equipped with a Jitte. This combo is very rough on my list.
G2 - Some Moon effect shuts him down.
G3 - He gets an early Delver, but I manage to kill it and then land Moggcatcher. Proceed to SGC SGC SGC. Win.
W 3-2 (6-6)
Round 6 - Dan on RWU Delver
G1 - Can't remember what killed me here. I just lost pretty hard.
G2 - Chalice into Blood Moon? GG
G3 - Trinisphere? Force of Will. Blood Moon? Spell Pierce. Magus of the Moon? Path to Exile. Blood Moon? Force of Will. I then lose to Delver with Jitte.
L 3-3 (7-8)
Well, I didn't do the best, but at least I had a good time. To be honest, I'm not sure if my head was completely into the games as I was still getting over a rough Top 8 loss the day before. I did do better than last the last SCG Open Legacy event I was at (where I went 0-3 with Mono Green Chalice Aggro), so that's something to build on. I might be looking to tweak the list some more. I saw a Rakka Mar once and she felt a little underwhelming, while Jaya felt good and I didn't see Koth. Maybe I'll look to swap Rakka out for something else in the future. The rest of the deck felt fine and I don't think I'd change any of that at all.
@zupponn
My list always includes 3 rakka-mar due to troubles vs planeswalkers.
I'd always prefer to resolve a moon or a trinisphere early.Quote:
Originally Posted by B4L4
Widespread Panic doesn't stop them from playing spells.
It doesn't play well into the game plan of locking them out or slowing them down in the early game long enough to win and doesn't help you win mid-late game. Almost any deck will beat out Dragon Stompy mid-late game in regards to card quality or advantage so the loss of their worst card might only sting slightly. Sometimes that 2nd or 3rd moon comes just in time to shut someone down after the first is countered or destroyed.
If they have a fetch before you land your moon, they'll grab a basic in response to moon (if they have any). If they have a fetch before you land this, they will fetch and not lose a card in response to Widespread Panic.
If you land a moon before they drop their fetch, that's likely preventing them from advancing whereas with Widespread Panic they will lose a card but likely improve their board state and/or reduce yours.
I try to keep an open mind to avoid falling into the "new untested stuff is crap" trap so by all means let us know if there's success with it.
I'm curious to know how Dragon Stompy will answer True-Name Nemesis. Ensnaring Bridge in Hellbent? What else?
SGC kills them faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
Couldn't you fly a Moltensteel Dragon over the Nemesis, or hit it with Powder Keg/Ratchet Bomb?
Beware, Power Keg would destroy Trinis and Magus of the Moon, and Ratchet Bomb would restroy also Blood Moons!It may have a solution, but we may 2x1 ourselves or even worse. It's simply not that easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Entromancer
Yeah, I know. I love her too. The problem was that I only saw her vs Sneak Show. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
I would almost be tempted to cut the Kavus, but they're just too much fun. The smirks I got from the people sitting next to me when I played him and my opponent had to read the card were just too good. :laugh:
Fly over with a 4/4 Haste Pro White dragon? Cast Magistrate's Veto and walk by with your men. Play Sword of Fire and Ice and just race it. Play Magnetic Mountain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
I'd like to know this too!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
I don't think TNN is going to be that big of a deal for us. We have so many ways to just race it or deal with equipment (which is what makes it scary).
I have never used Werewolves in Stompy. The only argument I can think of for werewolves is that it can use Cavern of Souls more effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
The dragon build with Seething Song is more prone to counterspells, and can be slowed down if you don't get Song. Wolves have a better curve and Cavern of Souls, but are much more dependent on your lock staying in place.
Would combining Rakdos Pit Dragon and Gathan Raiders with Hanweir Watchkeep and Instigator Gang be too much of a mess?
Maybe not. Though if you're trying to go hellbent without flipping raiders, maybe you're using song which is counterproductive with werewolves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Entromancer
I like our optimism vs. Nemesis.
Anyone else been brutalized by wasteland using caverns and 8 sol lands? Rough enough without the caverns.
I want to test stormbreath dragon but am partial to slogger since he shocks critters for profit if I even run a 5cc threat (haven't been running song).
I'm interested in stormbreath because one of my biggest problems with this deck has been having my threat wiped away and then I lose. This thing seems the most resilient out of our options right now.
In regards to werewolf vs. dragon. There's hellbent and non-hellbent for "dragon" builds. There's just the obvious differences with the threats that you run since most Dragon Stompy disruption suites are very similar. The differences in disruption interest me almost more than what threats are optimal in the meta. I've been saying for a long time now that we're 1 good lock piece and/or lock piece threat away from being really consistent.
Personally, I wouldn't not run a full set of revoker in the main these days what with Deathrite, hierarch, sneak attack, kotr, equipment, and planeswalkers (especially lili since once she's online we'll never get enough threats to race [another reason to like stormbreath]).
Good job on the moggcatcher build. Totally intrigued and will acquire this build too. Thank you so much for playing it and contributing to the thread.
Kind regards,
I wasn't using Seething Song in the Dragon/Werewolf potpourri. My curve topped out at 4, with Instigator Gang and Rakdos Pit Dragon. Is your interest in Stormbreath Dragon based on its protection from White?
I'm not sold on Revoker main especially in the Moggcatcher list. All of the things you listed, with the exception of Sneak Attack, can be easily answered with the goblin suite. Siege-Gang takes care of planeswalkers and mana dorks, while Tuktuk Scrapper is there to take out annoying equipment. With Moggcatcher's ability to tutor, all the answers are very easy to find. Now that I think about it, maybe a copy or two of Stingscourger wouldn't be a bad idea as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
It's been a long time since i posted, i'll be more of a regular now since i finally got the full playset of city of traitors.
The decklist is more or less the following:
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain
Creatures
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
4 Instigator Gang
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Rakka Mar
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte.
Still need to tailor the SB for the meta.
I'm interested into the moggcatcher build, even if give the headaches when i'm trying to find the cards for it .
It isn't because of the card rarity but for their scarcity.
Anyway i'll post a recap for the ftv20 tournament this sunday
Zupponn, that's good. I like stingscourger even without the moggcatcher.
Stormbreath interests me for many reasons but pro white is one of the main reasons since we hate having our threats answered (who doesn't?). This thing survives just about everything it needs to (aside from gristle/Emmy) in order to just be swinging in every turn putting a clock on them. Equipment makes it even better of course.
Between being pro white, flying, haste, and having 4 on its behind (not to mention 4 power), it ignores plow, doesn't trade with delver (lol at having to say that when talking about a 1 drop vs a 5 drop), can survive bolt, flies over knights, goyf, nemesis, and it's probably doing damage the turn it comes down.
The extra mana in cost is somewhat offset by the haste and in mtg you can't say enough about the surprise factor. Consider that the haste is also extremely important when dealing with planeswalkers (a huge concern for me). It can get an attack in before being bounced by Jace or edict by Lili.
Flying, haste, pro white is just a magical combination of abilities in my eyes (at 4/4!).
I've somewhat fallen out of love with pit-dragon. It's fun to get those huge attacks in but bolt/delver/plow are too common. Having them land a delver when on the draw is almost gg game 1. Stormbreath is probably doing less damage but I don't have to go all in on it just to lose it to a one mana spell (plow/bolt/delver). Let's be honest, you don't always have chalice on 1.
I used to like the all in nature of the hellbent list but when goyf or knight get bigger than raiders and your pit-dragon is so easily answered, top decking at that point is very demoralizing.
I'm only interested in playing a 5 drop in a list with songs which might beg the question to why not use hellbent cards but 8 cards (song/raiders) aren't enough for me to try and push that strategy. The only bonus here is that song also makes monstrous a rare possibility than an impossibility as well. I've been looking for a fast, resilient, beater for a while and have high hopes for this one.
I'm just glad they put it at 5 rather than 6.
Enough rambling. I'll follow up when I have actual testing/reports. It'll be a while.
What about Sudden Demise in sideboard ? I think it's better than bonfire of the damned because the bonfire costs a lot if not miracled.