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This is probably enough to make me try the 12 post mana. I love Trinisphere and I'm running 3/1. Spine of Ish Sah is really good, especially with Show and Tell decks being popular. I'm playing around with a similar list now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barsoom
This list looks pretty impressive!
Here is where I am right now.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Wasteland
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Karn Liberated
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
3 Trinisphere
---
2 All is Dust
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Duplicant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Silent Arbiter
2 Spellskite
2 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Trinisphere
Wouldn't the 12-post manabase be better in a MUD Stompy shell? Kuldotha Forgemaster is better when you have artifact lands to sacrifice, and the 12-post manabase precludes us from playing artifact lands.
Yes, Forgemaster is occasionally awkward, but the tutoring ability makes it still worth running 2 or 3. There's definitely an argument to just cut the card altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
I usually don't have a problem getting 2 other artifacts to sac. The problem is more often that you have to sacrifice an artifact you'd rather not, like a chalice or trinisphere, but that comes down to understanding the game situation. Either the lock pieces in play are enough, or you're going to lose unless you sac them to tutor something else.
Yesss... You should all run 12post manabase.. Accelerate me! Do my bidding!
I have been testing a 12-post list and it looks promising.
It doesn't solve the terrible topdecks but I think I fixed that.
Also, I went back to Mox Diamond with the 12-post list. I will explain once I've streamlined my list. Might also need help with the sideboard.
12 post manabase in MUD... yes, just scoop to a deck that is a bye for MUD, and also scoop to Wasteland.
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Clearly the deck is awful, that's why it can place top 4 in Legacy Champs.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
Wasteland hurts MUD regardless when they can kill your Tomb or City. With 12 post included, you get more stability later in the game by being able to produce lots of mana after they've wasted a Tomb or City or two.
According to my testing of the 12post + Sol Land build:
- Sol land is there to enable the early game. When you can't stick a City of Traitors or can't activate Ancient Tomb because you're at 5 and things can go wrong, you depend on 12post.
- the reason why I wanted Mox Diamond is because you won't always have a Sol land to enable a turn one sphere effect.
- with 12post, you can play the deck ala vintage: stick a lot of resistors and still resolve your 6 mana threat even if they cost 10.
- with 12post, you negate the life loss from Tomb (see Glimmervoid)
Personally, I am gearing towards running 4 Chalice, 4 Trinisphere, 4 Lodestone Golem, 3-4 Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst, 2-3 Tangle Wire and 3-4 Revokers. Then for threats, run Steel Hellkite instead of Wurmcoil since he can sweep whatever goes through the lock. Forgemaster to grab the Hellkite or Colossus.
Making things cost a lot not only protects you from free permission, it also protects you from Abrupt Decay.
Removing Greaves on the main ensures no late game dead draws. Drawing more sphere effects further stops your opponent from doing anything. Added sphere effects means you get to Time Walk your opponent, which is generally a haste in this scenario. Also with a ton of sphere effects, your opponent's removal will less likely to be casted.
I think 12post isn't a bad idea. How is it retarded? You know what's retarded, resolving a Trinisphere with a City of Traitors and Grim Monolith on the field on turn one, and looking at that Wasteland in your hand hoping that you can topdeck a Metalworker.
One card that I've tested in MUD for the Topdecking problem is Ancient Stirrings, and I have a friend that runs Faithless Looting in conjunction with Goblin Welder and Great Furnace to consistently get and use red. I go back and forth on it and am not playing it currently because Tree of Tales or Grove of the Burnwillows kind of underwhelm the mana base as opposed to Modern Tron (where I got the idea), but I've always found there to be potential for Ancient Stirrings.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with Tabernacle in the deck and how has it performed for them. I imagine that with all of MUD's mana ramp and with the strategy of making their spells cost more/Wastelanding their mana sources, that it could be quite effective.
He is right tough. Cloudpost is horrible. U know why it works in cloudpost.dec? Because that is build for it. This isnt. You cant just get it in here because we have a high mana curve and are colorless. I have tried and it felt sub par.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
And of course it is sub par. Whats the best land in legacy? Wasteland. What would make wastelandvkick even more ass? A colorless deck. Wich is mud.
Im convinced of the quasi staxx build for mud. 4 revokers 4 golem 4 chalice. Wasteland complements this. As does rishadan port. U want mana? Well were the mana deck already. Sol lands, metalworker, monolith, dynamo.. we have enough mana. No need to run subpar lands with more focus on mana.
Every forgemaster build can make a good showing. Thats what forgemaster builds then to do. If u have a good evening u can make amazing plays. But when your more experienced in mud u choose stability. This means no forgemaster and no useless inclusions.
Tabernacle is HORRIBLE. Against wich deck would it help? Maybe elves. OtherwIse it will just hurt me, since i play a curve of about 2, 4, 5, 6, 7. Wich means i dont want to miss drops because i plan to drop something aggressive every following turn.
I played at the local store to a 3-1 finish with 12post MUD just to try it.
It's was a four round X-0 gets a commander 2013 for $5.
I will post more details when I get a proper computer to elaborate on it. (I'm posting this via a smartphone).
So, I've decided against 12post lands for GP DC. I will post my list Sunday with results. Depending on how I do, I'll write a review.
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Rishadan port
3 Vesuva
4 Wasteland
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Metalworker
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Steel Hellkite
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Tangle Wire
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Trinisphere
Sideboard:
2 Witchbane Orb
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Spellskite
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spine of Ish Sah
Round 1 vs ANT
Match 1: He wins the dice roll, His turn one was a Fetch, Underground Sea. Then Probe and Duress to take my Chalice. Since I have no turn one play, I go with turn one Cloudpost. He won next turn.
I sided in Witchbane Orb and additional Thorn of Amethyst for Metalworkers and some Tangle Wire.
Match 2: I didn't really get sphere effect outside of Lodestone Golem but I managed to stick it on turn one (sol land to double Monolith to Lodestone Golem). I think I also got lucky because he mulled to five. My turn two was my topdecked Chalice at 0 and a tapped Cloudpost and my turn three was Glimmerpost to a Forgemaster for a Blightsteel Colossus.
Match 3: He just Pondered on turn one. I casted a Chalice for 1. Then my turn two was a Thorn and a tapped Cloudpost. Then turn three Vesuva to Trinisphere then a turn four Golem.
Round 2 vs Food Chain Griffin
Match 1: I win the roll. I go turn one with a tapped Cloudpost. He goes for a turn one Ponder. I go for a turn two 3sphere (Glimmerpost) and turn three Tangle Wire. Then a couple turns later, I go for the Forgemaster to Blightsteel Win.
I thought he was playing Canadian Thresh because I only saw two fetches, a Tropical Island and a Ponder. I sided out Revoker for Ratchet Bomb and Metalworker for Thorns. I can't remember if I sided in Wurmcoils and Spellskite.
Match 2: He goes turn one DRS. I go for Chalice at one. He goes and casts Food Chain. I casted Thorn and a Cloudpost. He combos off next turn.
I recall switching something but I can't remember which one. I think it was additional Spine and returned my Metalworker back.
Match 3: I go for a turn one Thorn. He doesn't do anything. We both derp for a bit but I am slowly spamming the board with Tangle Wire and Resistors though with no threats. He managed to Natural Order for Progenitus. On my turn I topdecked a Steel Hellkite and next turn nuked his Progenitus. I manage to survive a Progenitus hit because of the life I gained from Glimmerposts and managed to nuke his Probro via Hellkite because of Cloudpost.
Round 3 vs Team Italia:
Match one: I lost the die roll. He doesn't do anything for a couple of turns because of Trinisphere. Forgemaster to Blightsteel got there.
At first I thought he was playing Death and Taxes because all I saw were Karakas, Fetchlands, basic Plains and discarded Thalia.
I boarded in Ratchet Bombs and Spellskite for Thorns, Metalworkers and I think Metamorph.
Match 2: he goes for a turn one Thoughtsieze. He discarded my chalice. I manage to slow him down by a turn 2 3sphere and a waste on his Scrubland. I resolved a Ratchet Bomb and kept it at one. I also got Chalice at one going. He managed to resolve a Liliana which quickly got stopped by Revoker. Then Ratchet Bomb got rid of her to be sure. I then had enough mana to hardcast Blightsteel. He showed me his hand with two Swords and two Lightning Bolt and a Path to Exile. His next draw would have been Disenchant.
Round 4 vs. Goblins
Match 1: My turn one was Revoker on his turn one Vial. I then spammed the board with Tangle Wire (with the help of Metamorph). Then I had a lot tapped because of Tangle Wire but managed to resolve a Forgemaster because of multiple Cloudpost. Blightsteel finished the game without having an untapped blocker.
I sided out 3sphere, thorns and something i cant remember for Wurmcoils, Skites and ratchet bombs.
Match 2: I spam the board with Tangle Wires but I couldn't draw a threat. His Vial eventually got him going.
Match 3: I kept an aggressive hand and aggressively used my Ancient Tombs. I forgot that Goblins have haste and Steel Hellkite was a turn late.
With my resistor build, someone suggested Viseling as a "win condition". Sounds tempting but it does die to Bolt and can't kill fast enough.
So far, I am liking the deck. It is a turn slower than my Welder Build but it's more effective in creating locks and it does crap on itself. Without relying on a lot of mana artifacts to accelerate, I can dedicate those spots for additional resistors. This means that even though I am topdecking crap, my opponent is also not doing anything. All I need is that one Cloudpost to resolve a Forgemaster through a wall of Tangle Wires.
Metamorph + lodestone = very dangerous i think.. also the spheres are very nice.
Decks are just very greedy these days with their 2-3 colors, so obstruction is a valid game plan.
Didnt you miss cavern of souls?
I don't understand: do you mean in a good or in a bad way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Personally I play metamorph mainly for copying lodestone...
No because 3sphere and Thorns usually deal with FoW and other permission.
Although my main issue right now are faster combo decks such as Elves, TES and Sneak Show. Turn one Tendrils win, turn two Nat Order and a turn two Show and Tell are too fast for the deck .
I like my current build against Blue midrange and tempo.
All of those things you listed aren't the normal turns those decks go off on though.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Really, with the exception of Sneaky Show, Chalice & Trinisphere should be fine for dealing with Storm and Elves, or at least should buy you enough time to find another hate piece / beater.