[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

Leaving only deluge to deal with TNN feels very risky, even with 2 Deluge and 3 Lilianas I still get games where a turn 3 TNN just goes the distance. The roles Liliana fills for me is:

1. Deals with problematic creatures that decay cant kill (TNN mainly).

2. Provides other angels of attack/pressure vs control decks.

3. Makes the deck the beast it is against blade decks.

4. Pressures combo.

5. Kills creatures and forces decks playing creatures to overextend into deluge.

I like clique but I don't see that it can fill all these roles, (or perform just some of them but better) and it's also problematic to cast on time vs wasteland decks as it requires double blue. Playing cliques and deluge and NoSB also feels a bit subpar but that can be addressed by maybe playing other cards in those slots but I don't know.

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Originally Posted by LarsLeif

I think that the best card against burn (that is also viable vs other decks) is Jitte, even though it is slow it sort of forces your Burn opponent to kill all your creatures, if they didn't bring in smash to smithereens or something.

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Yeah, Jitte seems reasonable. I'll test it as a 2 off in my board, thanks!

Regarding the Liliana debate:
I personally don't like playing her, but I just don't think theres a better alternative here. I'm playing 2 atm which is okay for me, imo 3 is 1 too much, but i also see that there are good reasons for playing more than 2. Ive tried 3 deluges as I really love this card, but the lifeloss is just too much to justify 3, especially vs tempo.
I'd rather have some cheap removal spell that still gives you some utility when cascaded into an empty board (dimir charm w a more usefull 3rd ability maybe:) )

Also:
http://mtgpulse.com/event/19562#275838

Dont really like bobs but w/e looks interesting

anybody got some advice for the Reanimator MU? Got no one here playing it and online i played only a few times against it and did miserable, simply cause i was lacking any plan... which are the critical things i should know about the MU? ok, DRS is nice otp, thats obvious. Do u board in meddling magE? and if so what do u name? i am always having trouble cause there are so many different reanimate spells around.

I usually board MM, naming stuff is always depending on the situation but Exhume is a pretty nice name as the lifeloss from reanimate is relevant and reanimate targets a specific creature which means that DRS can exile in response. I keep in Liliana and Jace usually as they can deal with resolved fatties, and I usually also board the plow for that same reason. Cpriest, LotV and the discard spells are of course slam-dunks as well.

ok thanks for the feedback! :)

that was exactly what i did for example last time. DRS was Laying, Meddling Mage played naming exhume and he went off with double entomb into double reanimate :laugh:

next time i meet reanimator I´ll be recording as well like in this match yesterday evening and we can analyze further what went wrong ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaPCeatmi3Y

PS: Sorry for the german comment, if u feel annoyed, just mute it ^^

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Originally Posted by LarsLeif

I usually board MM, naming stuff is always depending on the situation but Exhume is a pretty nice name as the lifeloss from reanimate is relevant and reanimate targets a specific creature which means that DRS can exile in response. I keep in Liliana and Jace usually as they can deal with resolved fatties, and I usually also board the plow for that same reason. Cpriest, LotV and the discard spells are of course slam-dunks as well.

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Mind posting your list that splashes white?

I posted it a page back or so, I think you'll find it.

Great, thanks! Looking to finally break into this deck.

did tons of games today with the list i had posted the page before, including the changes.... and to be honest it just felt awesome to play, i really underestimated the main deluge, but it can win out of such epic situations. And here comes liliana into consideration. Lili forces your enemy to extend a little bit to protect their value creatures, which makes deluging just way more fun, even if lili on her own doesnt perform that great. And usually ur goyfs still are big enough to survive the deluge

While having three is probably too much, a couple of Lilies is good even without Toxic Deluge. She is fairly versatile, thus decent in most matchups. Also, you often get to edict and then have her killed by an opposing creature, which saves you some lives.

On a slightly different matter, despite the popular opinion, I have been pleased with having Strixes and Deluges in my 75. You may not play Strix prior to casting Deluge and even if you do, you get a card, which could be Toxic Deluge that you needed in that matchup since you kept it in. Also, owl can keep some opposing creatures from attacking or be a beater. I have won some games while beating with Strixes thanks to their evasion. Lastly, having more blue cards for FoW is also good.

Yeah, I mean strix is a nice card and that it replaces itself is definitely valuable if you have to pull the trigger on deluge. My main concern for strix (other than deluge/NoSB-dissonance) is mostly the manabase issue and that they are a bit weak in the metagame right now. There was definetely a time where 4 strix in the 75 was the right number (Maverick and Zoo still well represented, delver everywhere etc), but sadly that isn't the reality anymore I feel. If we look at the DTB-section here on thesource:

D&T: Here strix is very mediocre, their main threats are Thailia, Mirran Crusader and Mangara, and strix can't deal with them, and they also have SoFaI and Mom.

Elves: Strix does very little here.

Omnitell: Strix pitches to force/does nothing.

ANT: Strix does nothing.

Miracles: Strix is poor.

Blade Control: Strix trades with clique and snappy, which is sort of actually trading 1-for-1 at best as snappy and clique effectively also draws cards. It does not block TNN which is their main beatstick.

RUG and TA: Here strix is fine, but they play wasteland which makes the UB-cost a bit risky.


Adding cards to the deck that are only good in a very limited amount of matchups I feel is not worth it sadly. I can still of course see playing strix if you really want to or if you expect very many delver decks but looking at my list I see no cards that I would like to replace with strix right now.

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Originally Posted by LarsLeif

My main concern for strix (other than deluge/NoSB-dissonance) is mostly the manabase issue and that they are a bit weak in the metagame right now.

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This is my manabase at the moment to be able to cast Strix (running 3) reliably, it's working well.

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland

1 Scrubland in the board, and a Life from the Loam MD.

I think Strix works incredibly well with Deluge. It forces your opponent to overextend into it. I've cut the NoSB for Engineered Plague too.

Sure, it'd not good in the MUs you mentioned, but it's outweighed by the MUs where it shines IMO.

I mean, sure it's easy to cast it, you just fetch 2 lands, the problem usually revolves around the lands you have to fetch being nonbasics which opens you up to wasteland.

"Sure, it'd not good in the MUs you mentioned, but it's outweighed by the MUs where it shines IMO. "

That is a meta-call and a subjective opinion in that case. Strix is bad against almost all the top decks, (and against TA we are already favoured anyway) and that fact remains even if you think that it is worth playing because of other matchups. I personally want the deck to be good against the top-decks specifically, because generally speaking those are the decks you face the most, especially during later stages of a tournament.

My point again is that it feels hard to justify playing strix right now in place of anything else. The list is super tight and pressing in strix is just very hard, not because the card is bad (it's not, just a bit off in the metagame) but because other cards are more important.

I love strix, he is so good in my meta with delver and other fair decks. That said he is horrible in the bad matchups. He makes your goyf bigger and blocks for walkers but at the end of the day my deck is already a good matchup against the decks he is good against.

I am thinking of adding the 2/3 hymn back main and 2 Lotv. 2 thoughtseize 1 duress board.

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Originally Posted by deucegg

looking for some md/sideboard cards that actually do well vs Burn but aren't too narrow. Im currently running 2 Chill in my board which are awesome, but only against Burn.. So I Was thinking about Scavenging Ooze (maybe 1 maindeck 1 sideboard?). Don't really know if he's worth it as he just dies to a Lightning Bolt unless you get to remove 2 creatures and use 2 green mana which makes him rather slow in this scenario, but he can gain you some crucial life later on giving you some extra time which is huge as well. Furthermore he helps against ANT, Dredge, Reanimator, RUG and other graveyard heavy decks, too.. I'm currently running 3 green sources (1 Forest/Bayou/Trop) +4 DRS. Are 3 enough if im playing 1 main 1 side?
and are there any other suggestions?
SB Stuff im bringing in vs burn atm:
MM, 2 duress, 1 stp, (Chill)

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Feed the clan. But I'm crazy.

No posts in almost a week? What is up guys? Talk to us, what are you playing, nice card choices, difficult plays?

I'm still on my usual list and it's been really great for me, so I recommend it as usual. Jace especially has been really good.

Same old, same old.

Kept the same MB and will probably keep it that way until some new good card comes around. Sideboard was often-changing, but the current version is more or less stagnant.

Deck:

Creatures - 14
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Baleful Strix
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent

Instants - 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time

Sorceries - 7
1 Hymn To Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Thoughtseize
3 Ancestral Vision

Planeswalkers - 4
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Enchantments - 1
1 Sylvan Library

Lands - 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Wasteland
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp

Side:

2 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Baleful Strix
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Force of Will

Road so far:

Tournament results:

29-01-2015 4th place, 9pts. (3-1)
08-02-2015 5th place, 9pts. (3-2)
12-02-2015 2nd place, 9pts. (2-1; Bye)
26-02-2015 1st place, 12 pts. (4-0)
12-03-2015 2nd place, 9pts. (3-1)

Matchup | Result (Win-Loss) | Win % | Times faced (l.u. 27-03-2015)

GBRw Midrange 1-0 100% (1)
Affinity 1-0 100% (1)
Death and Taxes 2-1 66.66% (3)
Dredge 1-0 100% (1)
GB Nic Fit 2-0 100% (2)
GBW Nic Fit 1-0 100% (1)
Goblin Stompy 0-1 0% (1)
Punishing Jund 3-0 100% (3)
Reanimator 1-0 100% (1)
Rw Imperial Painter 2-1 66.66% (3)
Tin Fins 0-2 0% (2)
Uw Martyr 1-0 100% (1)
Bye (1)

Deck's win %

85%

Missed this week's tournament as I had to prepare for a big bad Biochemistry quiz :(

Anyway, the results are quite pleasing so far (people with 9+ points always get prizes), the only seriously bad matchup is Goblin Stompy. Tin Fins is tough but I have almost had it the second time I faced it, so I might win another time.

Seems sweet, nice to see that you are winning a lot! :)

I'm wondering about something strix-related. Have you tried Tombstalker in that slot? I really liked Tombstalker in my/Lejays build (before it was replaced with Pulse). It sort of fills the same role as strix (2-mana blocker for delvers etc) while it at the same time can add a lot to the decks more aggressive nature, while it's also a mirror-breaker in the BUG Delver/Shardless matchup.

I think that it's definitely something that I recommend testing. Tasigur sort of reminds but the lower manacost and the not so relevant ability I think isn't as good as flying and more power.

Well, I do my best to not to lose.

I would say that Strix and Stalker operate on different axes.

In adition to being a good blocker and an okay attacker Baleful Strix is a blue cantrip that can be cast as early as the second turn and is also cascade-able. Tombstalker is mainly a beatstick with evasion that is cast later, is harder to remove, costs two black mana and interferes with other delve cards (from my experience even a singleton Dig Through Time is often a dead card in hand). Basically, owl helps to elaborate deck's Control nature while the demon provides a more aggro approach. I for one consider Shardless BUG to be a Control-Aggro deck prior to being Aggro-Control, so it seems more reasonable to strengthen its Control side as it is the primary route, but Tombstalker may be a good inclusion as well.

I personally am not that exited about trying Tombstalker out as it does not seem to improve any bad matchups and I prefer Baleful Strix. Moreover, Stalker is rather similar to Tasigur, which has been very under-performing for me. Still, I may try it out on Cockatrice.

And how things are going for you? :)