I'd add that those considering a singleton Meekstone to Tutor for can combine it with Harrier for fun times. (I'm aware of the poor synergy with Finks, Grunt, and Swords, but it's also nice to not die to opposing fat, swarms of big fish, etc.)
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I'd add that those considering a singleton Meekstone to Tutor for can combine it with Harrier for fun times. (I'm aware of the poor synergy with Finks, Grunt, and Swords, but it's also nice to not die to opposing fat, swarms of big fish, etc.)
The T8 decklists can now be found at deckcheck:Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
http://www.deckcheck.net/event.php?e...ercadiade+2010
I did not know that another d&t made t8 too that day.
Just to say it once more: that's a pretty impressive result, indeed.
The other D&T list is interesting:
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Flickerwisp
2 Jötun Grunt
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
3 Stonecloaker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Karakas
12 Plains
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Ray of Distortion
1 Runed Halo
1 Sacred Ground
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethyst
*Ethersworn Canonist. Some people have cutted it from the main, but I absolutely agree that it is still worth playing as a 2 or 3 of. It's obviously pretty good VS stormcombo, but also has it's uses VS cantrips and aggro decks that want to play multiple spells a turn like Zoo and Goblins. Like Finn once said: It slows your opponent down to your own tempo. Wich makes it much easier for you to control the game. It does have some antisynergy with the taxing aspect of the deck becouse if your opponent can only play one spell a turn he doesn't really mind your taxes, and the other way around: if you tax his manabase, he'll probably be casting one spell a turn anyway. Regardless of the Canonist.
*Stonecloaker. Cool :) Im not really sure how good it still is w/o damage on the stack, but I still like the card.
*Only 3 Karakas. That's a bit weird, I'm not sure why you'd want that.
*Emrakul SB. Dunno what that's for. Maybe VS Show and Tell or Hypergenesis? But how is an untutorable 1-of going to be changing that MU?
Anyway, I'm currently testing the standard list (see Finns and pcccp's lists) with 4 Mana Tithe's in the open slots (the slots were Finn plays Harrier and Condemn and pcccp played Harrier, the third O-Ring and Bodyguard). Tithe obviously has synergy with the other taxing effects, but also with Flickerwisp (becouse there's another reason to flicker one of your own lands). Besides that, it gives you an unexpected out to a great deal of problems you didn't really have an answer to previously (mainly VS control and combo). I guess you could take it out postboard (especially when on the draw) for hate + tutor and just hope your opponent will keep playing around it.
Hi guys!
I'm a D&T player, it's the only deck I'm playing at the moment.
I'm having great results with the deck! Incredibly fun to play, and basically, it has a lot of good matchups.
I won a small random-meta tournament a month ago at my local shop, and since then, never stopped to play it. (Here's my list http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36879)
Apart from that, I joined this thread in order to compare my wiews about the deck with yours, and to receive some tips regard bad matchups. (In particularly Zoo and Landstill :frown: )
What's your gameplan against Zoo?? I've never win more than 3 games out of 10 against it...
I'd really like to know your strategy and SB options when facing a Zoo deck.
Thanks to all, and "Flick" them! :tongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffy
hi spiffy! welcome to the source, i hope you'll have some nice talk here to improve your D&T skills. See ya at our local shop.
have fun.
its funny, more and more people from italy are joining this thread, me as well i am actually from italy, but i life near the border to austria where i am studying
@ spiffy:
i as well want to welcome you at the source , hopefully you will enjoy it here
just for curiosity, where exactly are you from?
I took a Death'n Taxes like deck featuring a green splash to our local tournament yesterday. 54 people attended, which led us to six rounds of magic. I played the following list:
1 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
3 Karakas
4 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mangara of Corondor
4 Mother of Runes
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Serra Avenger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Aether Vial
3 Living Wish
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
1 Harmonic Sliver
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
1 Tivadar of Thorn
1 True Believer
3 Krosan Grip
3 Defense Grid
1 Karakas
Round 1 against Blue Lands
I keep a mediocore hand in the first game, not knowing what deck he's playing. He has a fast Manabond followed by a Life from the Loam and an Intuition to get Academy Ruins, Mindslaver and some Utility Land. I scoop by the time he has 11 Mana, since he would hit the last land to get his Mindslaver Lock online the next turn and I'm there to play magic, not to stall around.
I boarded Krosan Grip for Mother of Runes, since he doesn't have any spot removal anyway. I get a very aggressive hand and I'm able to do quite some damage. I have to fight through 3 Maze of Ith and 1 or 2 Factories. I'm able to bring him down to 3 Life, but at the end of my turn he plays Intuition for Tabernacle and he can stabilize.
0-1
Round 2 Mirror Match
Seriously 54 People attended and we have to play the mirror. That's something. Well it's a fast story. Game 1 i have the Jitte, Game 2 he has the Jitte. Game 3 we both get our gameplan working. We deny each other the green mana (He was using Mangara on my basic forest) and have both a green hand, which we both can't play a card from. I draw 4 Mother of Runes from the top and he can only handle 2 of them. My Mother's give my critters the ability to fight through his defense and I'm hitting him down to 4 life, when he gets a Sword of Light and Shadow stuck to his Serra Avenger. The following turns my life drops down from 22 to 2 and his life goes like this 4 -> 7 -> 2 -> 5 -> 2 -> 5 -> 2 -> 5. It's his turn and he knows that i have critical on the board, since i could hit another critter in my last turn. He draws the Savannah from the top and plays Living Wish on Faerie Macabre, which makes me unable to do critical damage, since i only have 2 Mother of Runes and i have to give 2 critters protection from 2 colours. My only hope is to draw my green mana from the top. And i don't do that.
0-2
Round 3 against Bant
He played a weird build featuring Academy Ruins/Shackles/EE and Tarmogoyf and Rhox War Monk as critters.
First game i simply have too much critters for him to handle. Again I'm boarding Grips. In the second Game I'm able to hit a Defense Grid on turn 4, since he has no counters in hand. If that Defense Grid would have been a Choke (the card I intended to play, but couldn't find someone, who would lend me that card) I would've won the game. Two turns later he gets recurring EE online and I'm out of the game. Game 3 was the same as Game 2. A shame that i couldn't find any Wastelands/Gaddock Teeg both games, since they would've fucked up those recurring EE.
0-3
Round 4 against Sneak Attack (Dragon Stompy Shell)
I win the dice roll and i start with Land -> Aether Vial. Go. He kept a hand with first turn Chalice on 1. Too bad the Vial already hit the game. I get some Ports online and my Manadenial-Plan keeps him from playing anything.
Game 2 he goes for first turn Magus of the Moon. Too bad i got a Vial and a Jitte in hand. A Gaddock Teeg keeps him from playing Sneak Attack and i win again.
1-3
Round 5 against UB Dreadnought/Hexmage Combo
I keep a hand with 2x Aether Vial in the first game. The first Vial gets forced, but the second one gets through. The Vial allows me to hit critters and my Ports keep tapping his blue mana sources.
I board Grip's for Mother of Runes once again. In the second game i keep a hand with 4 lands, Vial, Krosan Grip and Living Wish. I know that he plays a strong manadenial plan, so I'm quite satisfied with that hand. He goes for first turn Thoughtseize after a Mulligan down to 5. By the time he see's my hand he can't believe that i kept that one. He takes my Vial. I draw a land, and make a landdrop. He draws and plays another Thoughtseize taking my Grip away. I play a land and Living Wish for Kitchen Finks. The next turn i play the Kitchen Finks and they go all the way.
2-3
Round 6 against Ur Dreadstill
I got the first turn Vial again and I'm able to hit a Serra Avenger and a Gaddock Teeg. I topdeck a Karakas and play Living Wish for Mangara. My opponent scoops.
Once again Mother's out, Grips in. That might be not the best choice there, since he has Firespout off the board, but i didn't want to take out other cards.
I keep a very aggressive hand with double Goyf, Teeg and double Wasteland and some coloured Mana. I keep drawing good cards and his manabase gets screwed all day long. I love how the deck can go aggro with a good Manadenial-Plan. It worked out once again.
3-3
In the end I'm quite satisfied with the result. It was my first time playing creatures in a tournament environment, since I'm normally playing combo. After playing the deck i would made some minor changes.
Main: -2 Canonist, -1 Plains ; +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Knight of the Reliquary +1 Arid Mesa
Board: -1 True Believer, -1 Tivadar of Thorn - 3 Defense Grid ; +3 Choke, +1 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Tabernacle
Though luck playing the mirror. All 3 matches felt like a coinflip. Every time the Manadenial-Plan worked out i won the game. The deck might not have that much "tricks" as normal Death'nTaxes-Builds but it can go more aggressive due to that. I don't know if this report is posted in the right thread, but i couldn't think of any other archetype thread to post in.
Hey Kiblast!Quote:
Originally Posted by kiblast
You know..we are not here to push forward turtles! :cool:
Spiffy, this is from the opening post. I keep the thread mostly up-to-date.
Zoo
-average matchup
-You are definitely control
-Your goals are to neutralize his ability to attack you while you get a creature to connect with a weapon. This commonly involves some combination of Mother of Runes, Sword of Fire//Ice, Sword of Light//Shadow, and perhaps Umezawa's Jitte with some other creature to attack with. If you can get a sword equipped with a decent life total, you have a really good shot at victory. If you do not, it is going to take some good fortune and tight gameplay to pull it off. Sword of Light//Shadow on a Serra Avenger is the best scenario, but all the weapons come in handy from time to time. The matchup is hard to nail down. A single Jotun Grunt is a great boon. But two Grunts early on usually results in a dead card. Mangara is occasionally a fantastic game breaker, but is equally as often just an expensive lightning rod. Flickerwisp sometimes 2-1's with Oblivion Ring or Mystic and then seals the deal with unblockable damage, but occasionally just untaps something and dies to a Lavamancer. Wastelands and Ports can deny him a critical color (I always like green best here), but if Zoo gets mana flooded, all you did was delay yourself. This is why I recommend sticking to the equipment focus. It is more consistent. Kitchen Finks is a card that can buy you some time and perhaps card advantage. It is specifically for this matchup. You will also want extra removal if you have it in your board. Finally, Burrenton Forge-Tender is a perfect creature to give a Jitte to.
-board out 1 Mangara, 1 Flickerwisp, and some Harriers or Oblivion Rings. Board in the last Mystic, extra creature removal, the last Grunt, and Finks if you have them.
I played the GW list before and kitchen finks + flickerwisp was the combination to beat zoo and other burn spell powerd aggro decks.
That is very true.
@Finn: you don't recommend boarding in cataclysm against zoo?
Thx for your help Finn!
I know that the control route is the best way to go against a Zoo deck, but is not as easy as it seems. Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Helix, Punishing Fire (for "Rubin" version) Lavamancers, Chain Lightning..THEY HAVE TOO MANY REMOVAL SPELLS, to cast in response to the equip ability, and our MOM rarely survive an entire turn. The manadenaial-plan is the one I choose most of the time, as they need all of the 3 colors in the same way (agree green is the best to cut off) but, i know..zoo getting mana flooded= we lose, without a chance to do anything else. I'll test the Flickerwisp-Kitchen Finks stuff combined with 6 removal spells (Swords and Condemn), trying to make them waste their cards, and praying they get mana flooded at that point! The key to succeed is more psychological than deck strategy IMHO. You must be perfect in order to beat Zoo.
As for Landstill...almost a bye for them.
Is it just me or do you also feel like the deck has really benefited from the last metagame evolution, namely emrakul popping up everywhere? Between o.ring, mangara and (most importantly) karakas, I would feel very well equipped against it. Makes me want to sleeve up the deck again.
I've found O-Ring and Mangara to be good against Show and Tell decks especially with how common Emrakul is compared to Progenitus. However, the best metagame shift was the decrease in the amount of combo. Storm was a terrible matchup, but stuff like Painter is easier to deal with.
I took mono white D&T to a 46 man tournament and made 10. place.
1. round: combo elves (2-0)
2. round: dredge (0-2)
3. round: 15 lord merfolks (1-2)
(funny story: while traveling to the location we playtested D&T against the UB Merfolk list from saito and D&T went 12 - 1 preboard.)
4.round: 4c countertop (2-0)
5.round: enchantress (2-1)
6.round: aggro loam (2-0)
Some conclusions:
I tested a new card that i think has potential: Loyal Sentry.
Loyal Sentry
Creature - Human Soldier 1/1, W (1)
When Loyal Sentry blocks a creature, destroy that creature and Loyal Sentry.
The good thing about this creature is that it stops the attacker before it can deal damage. (good vs. Terravore or Dreadnought)
You can vial it in to have uncounterable removal but the really cool thing is that you can bounce or flicker him in response to his trigger. I will try out Stonecloaker + Loyal Sentry soon. With more people playing Survival with Loyal Retainers or Emrakul now Stonecloaker could be a good answer to that combo.
loyal sentry cought my eye as well, and a list for a more aggro, or aggro-control oriented meta, with him and stonecloakers could definitely be extremely strong
@ pcccp: i would be quite interested in your list, i was wondering how your main and sideboard ar looking like, specially since you also beat enchentress, and an UB list of merfolk, and that quite easy
besides i was getting interestet in following creature
War Priest of Thune
Creature Human Cleric - 1W
2/2
When War Priest of Thune enters the battlefield, you may destroy target enchantment.
what do you guys think about this creature, i think it has a lot of potential
IMHO Loyal Sentry and Warpriest of Thune serve almost no role in advancing the deck. What are you guys taking out? These proposed creatures only have one role, and in most cases they would appear to be useless.
that might be true but, we do actually have 2 to 3 mainboard slots which we can dedicate to the current meta, so these creatures would definitely serve their role, but just as you said, these creatures would serve only this specific purpose
just think of warpriest for example as non counterable enchantmentremoval at instant speed with vial, not that it would matter that it is not counterable against enchantress, one of our most feared matchups
i did not say he is a bomb or a must-play, but he deserves some attention
I would rather play Harrier than Loyal Sentry. Harrier also stops flying re-animation targets and Show and Tell targets unlike Loyal Sentry. This has proven very handy. As for War Priest. I was also thinking about it, but I decided that an Elvish Hexhunter or Kami of Ancient Law would be better. Although they have to be sacrificed, you can play them before counterbalance hits the field. I just wish they'd also hit artifacts.