Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff Kruchkow
1) It may be less CC but it costs an off color to the deck. You can say its not worth it to play it because it has more downsides and less potential upsides that Cabal Rit or Rite of Flame.
2) How does duress stop an active counterbalance? And last i checked, TES ran duress and Chant but i would rather only worry about active counterbalance than counterbalance, Force, stifle....
3) Hes saying that you list is worse vs. blue because you can only get 4 counters from them since you only have duress. See the Chant vs Duress arguments a few pages earlier.
4) Diminishing Returns is a last ditch thing. If you have to go for it, you probally aren't in a position to use AdN. Also, your chances of getting one of 2x Mystical or 2x AdN is the same as getting 4x AdN, only one hurts a hell of a lot less during AdN.
Overall, the debate isn't necessarily that Tinder Wall is bad, obviously it isn't since it is played in Belcher but what is being said is that it is just inferior to other mana accel options.
1) It's a 5c mana base and it can be cast pre-combo, it's easier to cast Tinder Wall than it is to cast Orim's Chant.
2) Who said anything about active Counterbalance? Every Duress, Red Elemental and Pyroblast is in here to stop Counterbalance from resolving, because that's our most effective method of dealing with Counterbalance.
3) Ad Nauseam just made Orim's Chant less necessary, which lets you focus on disruption that hits Counterbalance, I totally don't buy Orim's Chant > Duress vs Islands for a second.
4) No, Diminishing Returns isn't your last option, it's your only option. My point wasn't casting either Diminishing Returns or Ad Nauseam, my point was casting Diminishing Returns, drawing Ad Nauseam off of Diminishing Returns and then resolving Ad Nauseam 4TW ... Mystical Tutor can't do that. The more Ad Nauseams you have, the more your Brainstorm/Ponder and Diminishing Returns are worth.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
1) It's a 5c mana base and it can be cast pre-combo, it's easier to cast Tinder Wall than it is to cast Orim's Chant.
Then have it gets swords. You ignoring the fact it sucks versus real opponents, its aggravating. Real people will swords it, there's a difference between MWS and a competitive tournament scene. Why run the risk of swords when you can just play better efficient cards? How is it easier to cast? They're both off color. Although, the difference is Chant will win you the game if it resolves, Tinderwall will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
2) Who said anything about active Counterbalance? Every Duress, Red Elemental and Pyroblast is in here to stop Counterbalance from resolving, because that's our most effective method of dealing with Counterbalance.
Which is why I play them too. But you should also be playing Orim's Chant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
3) Ad Nauseam just made Orim's Chant less necessary, which lets you focus on disruption that hits Counterbalance, I totally don't buy Orim's Chant > Duress vs Islands for a second.
How? Nauseum doesn't protect the win or the cards leading up to it. Totally different functions, I don't see how you came to this generalization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
4) No, Diminishing Returns isn't your last option, it's your only option. My point wasn't casting either Diminishing Returns or Ad Nauseam, my point was casting Diminishing Returns, drawing Ad Nauseam off of Diminishing Returns and then resolving Ad Nauseam 4TW ... Mystical Tutor can't do that. The more Ad Nauseams you have, the more your Brainstorm/Ponder and Diminishing Returns are worth.
What if you don't have enough acceleration? Or you can't cast it because it costs G. Mystical does get Nauseum, there's a reason we play cantrips. Plus you'll have the blue mana from LED to cast these cards.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Then have it gets swords. You ignoring the fact it sucks versus real opponents, its aggravating. Real people will swords it, there's a difference between MWS and a competitive tournament scene. Why run the risk of swords when you can just play better efficient cards? How is it easier to cast? They're both off color. Although, the difference is Chant will win you the game if it resolves, Tinderwall will not.
Which is why I play them too. But you should also be playing Orim's Chant.
How? Nauseum doesn't protect the win or the cards leading up to it. Totally different functions, I don't see how you came to this generalization.
What if you don't have enough acceleration? Or you can't cast it because it costs G. Mystical does get Nauseum, there's a reason we play cantrips. Plus you'll have the blue mana from LED to cast these cards.
1)
If you don't need to play "Tinder Wall, go" then you don't play "Tinder Wall, go." It's an either/or decision to play "Tinder Wall, go" or sacrifice Tinder Wall based on your hand, it's not like your forced to run Tinder Wall into Swords to Plowshares in the same sense your forced to run Xantid Swarm into Swords to Plowshares. If you need the +RR mana then Tinder Wall can produce that mana at risk, Cabal Ritual and Simian Spirit Guide don't offer that option.
Tinder Wall is easier to cast because you can resolve it before the combo turn and untap your land. You have to cast Orim's Chant on your combo turn, which makes off color disruption more prohibitive than off color acceleration.
2)
How does it make sense to play 4 Orim's Chant and 2 Duress when you could play 4 Duress and 2 Orim's Chant with Mystical Tutor? Stopping Counterbalance is more of an imperative than stopping 2xSpellsnare.
3)
Ad Nauseam protects the kill conditions from Stifle and Spellsnare by not being Stifle(able) or Spellsnare(able) itself and drawing into Duress before it resolves the kill condition. There's a reason why Stifle is targeting fetchlands in AnT ...
4)
What I'm saying is extra Ad Nauseam = greater likely hood of winning post Diminishing Returns and greater likely hood of stacking Ad Nauseam post Brainstorm/Ponder for LED.
Mystical Tutor is just a blank post Diminishing Returns, that's why you can't say Mystical Tutor = Ad Nauseam 3,4, Mystical Tutor + Brainstorm/Ponder into Ad Nauseam is just not ever happening. I don't like Mystical Tutor, it's playable in TES, but it doesn't really fit the play style of TES, because the turns and cards it costs you are too much on the draw.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
1)
If you don't need to play "Tinder Wall, go" then you don't play "Tinder Wall, go." It's an either/or decision to play "Tinder Wall, go" or sacrifice Tinder Wall based on your hand, it's not like your forced to run Tinder Wall into Swords to Plowshares in the same sense your forced to run Xantid Swarm into Swords to Plowshares. If you need the +RR mana then Tinder Wall can produce that mana at risk, Cabal Ritual and Simian Spirit Guide don't offer that option.
If you don't run it out on the table you're paying a G to generate a R. Seems awful. Cabal Ritual can't offer the option of red mana, you're correct. Black mana is this deck is by far more important than red, which is why most of us play Cabal Ritual. Not to mention, Cabal Ritual has the strong possibility of creating an additional BBB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
Tinder Wall is easier to cast because you can resolve it before the combo turn and untap your land. You have to cast Orim's Chant on your combo turn, which makes off color disruption more prohibitive than off color acceleration.
I'll concede the fact you have to cast Orim's on your turn compared to Tinderwall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
How does it make sense to play 4 Orim's Chant and 2 Duress when you could play 4 Duress and 2 Orim's Chant with Mystical Tutor? Stopping Counterbalance is more of an imperative than stopping 2xSpellsnare.
Tempo based decks are more popular than ever. People are over exaggerating the presence of counterbalance. Between Merfolk, Team America, and Tempo Thresh it's more than UGW Counterbalance Thresh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
Ad Nauseam protects the kill conditions from Stifle and Spellsnare by not being Stifle(able) or Spellsnare(able) itself and drawing into Duress before it resolves the kill condition. There's a reason why Stifle is targeting fetchlands in AnT ...
It could be that not giving mana to decks is a general gameplan... You're idea on Nauseum being protection is warped. Chant makes sure your spells resolve where Ad Nauseum runs headfirst into counterspells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BreathWeapon
What I'm saying is extra Ad Nauseam = greater likely hood of winning post Diminishing Returns and greater likely hood of stacking Ad Nauseam post Brainstorm/Ponder for LED.
Mystical Tutor is just a blank post Diminishing Returns, that's why you can't say Mystical Tutor = Ad Nauseam 3,4, Mystical Tutor + Brainstorm/Ponder into Ad Nauseam is just not ever happening. I don't like Mystical Tutor, it's playable in TES, but it doesn't really fit the play style of TES, because the turns and cards it costs you are too much on the draw.
Well, I don't care for Mystical either, but it's better than flipping an additional ten on another Ad Nauseum. You seem to use Diminishing Returns too much when you should just be Igg looping for the win.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I had a question about this hand: Rite, Rite, Petal, Brainstorm, Mystical Tutor, Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual. Is this keepable? And also, are hands only keepable if they have Infernal Tutor/Burning Wish/Mystical Tutor?
If this hand is keepable, what is the correct way to play it. I imprinted Brainstorm, and then Mystical Tutored for Infernal Tutor. Then after another turn, I got lucky and drew a Mine and won with the IGG loop. Should I have searched up Ad Nauseam? Also, I was playing against boros, so IGG seemed preferable to Ad Nauseam at the time.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
easyrider
I had a question about this hand: Rite, Rite, Petal, Brainstorm, Mystical Tutor, Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual. Is this keepable?
If this hand is keepable, what is the correct way to play it. I imprinted Brainstorm, and then Mystical Tutored for Infernal Tutor. Then after another turn, I got lucky and drew a Mine and won with the IGG loop. Should I have searched up Ad Nauseam? Also, I was playing against boros, so IGG seemed preferable to Ad Nauseam at the time.
I'd mull it: you have no way of recovering if you don't find a land in the top 3 cards with brainstorm.
It's also a bad move to Mystical for IT, it's safer to just wait and see what you draw naturally: what if you draw an IT? what if you draw AN? What if you draw a land? As general rule I mystical if I just miss 1 card to combo off (or if I have to shuffle the deck after a brainstorm/ponder).
I'll suggest you to read this thread. It was a discussion I started to talk about mulliganing strategy, especially with TES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
easyrider
And also, are hands only keepable if they have Infernal Tutor/Burning Wish/Mystical Tutor?
Here's my general rule:
- All acceleration and 0 lands: Mull unless you can combo with every business card I draw (Wish, IT, Mystical, AN, Cantrips)
- All acceleration and 1-2 Lands: Keep, cause every cantrip I draw is likely to find me the business spell that wins the game.
- All acceleration and cantrips, 0 lands: keep if the cantrip is a ponder and need just a tutor/AN to win.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I have a big problem playing this deck...what do you suggest to do agains pox / discard deck?? I mean... dark ritual + hymn to tourach + duress is terrible or even dark ritual + sinkhole + duress is awful. So if he / she starts the game are we out?? If we start the game, is duress our best option to beat them?? What do you thing about 4 duress + 2 orim's chant main deck in a metagame with this kind of decks??
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoldenCid
I have a big problem playing this deck...what do you suggest to do agains pox / discard deck?? I mean... dark ritual + hymn to tourach + duress is terrible or even dark ritual + sinkhole + duress is awful. So if he / she starts the game are we out?? If we start the game, is duress our best option to beat them?? What do you thing about 4 duress + 2 orim's chant main deck in a metagame with this kind of decks??
A few (somewhat obvious) suggestions:
- play out your artifact mana as soon as you can
- use Brainstorm to hide important cards
- use Chant during their upkeep to prevent them from using their discard
- use Duress to take their discard
They're at an advantage if they go first, and Duress+Hymn/Sinkhole can be a pain, but you can still win out of nowhere with Ad Nauseam. As for the Duress/Chant split: I would probably only cut Chants if there isn't any blue in your metagame. Chant can still be useful against discard if used proactively.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Another victory, for The EPIC Storm..
At my local shop last night, (The Fun Factory in Traverse City, Michigan) there was a 15 person Legacy tournament that I took first place in playing T.E.S. Since it is my local shop and I know almost all of the players that play Legacy and usually what decks they are playing, I made a small change to the main deck. I decided to add 2 more main deck Duresses and 2 more Cabal Rituals because as I was looking around I saw that no one was going to be playing any sort of counter magic that I could see, and I figured that I would be safe adding the Duresses and the Cabal Rituals for a little extra mana ramp, it also gave me 4 more forgiving Chrome Mox imprints for black. But it became quite obvious when I played against the BWU Psychatog deck that Orim's Chant is very helpful in the deck, and to be honest there were a few instances where I wish I would have had Orim's Chant even with the lack of counter magic in the meta.
Also, I would like to add that Bryant's most recent changes to the deck to help make ADN better, have been very successful, every time I managed to cast ADN, and it resolved, it was always amazing and always won me the game.
Below I have included the list that I played last night and how each match up went. I apologize that the matchup reports aren't the most detailed, the next time I do this I'll actually have to take notes versus doing it all from memory.
// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [AN] City of Brass
1 [CHK] Forbidden Orchard
1 [VS] Undiscovered Paradise
// Spells
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [US] Duress
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
2 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [b] Dark Ritual
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
2 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [LRW] Ponder
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 [FS] Pact of Negation
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
The Tournament was 4 rounds, then split into a Top 4, and then a Top 2.
1st Round: BWU Psychatog (Lost 2-1)
Game 1: (He wins the dice roll) I went for an early Burning Wish to get Empty the Warrens, and my wish was countered by a Force of Will. I then sat for 3 turns, Brainstormed once, and managed to get enough mana to Duress and then ADN. I Duressed him taking a Counterspell leaving him with no counter magic, and then went for ADN, he proceeded to put a Sensei’s Divining Top on top of his library and get another Force of Will and counter my ADN. He then dropped a Moloku, the Clouded Mirror and beat me to the face before I could try to combo out again.
(I board in 2 Shattering Sprees, and 1 Chain of Vapor for 2 Ponders and 1 Infernal Tutor)
Game 2: I go for a first turn Duress, and rip the Force of Will out of his hand, and he is left with no other counters. I pass the turn, and he draws a card, plays a land and says go. I then proceed to go for an early Empty the Warrens via Burning Wish and successfully do it. I get 10 goblins and beat him down within two turns.
Game 3: Nearly the same thing happened in this game, that happened in game 1. I get beaten down by a Moloku and counter magic.
2nd Round: UG Foodchain Combo (Won 2-0)
Game 1: (I win the dice roll) I first turn play a Lion's Eye Diamond, City of Brass, then Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, then cast ADN. I reveal plenty of goodies to cast, play a Burning Wish, and then cast Tendrils.
(I don't board in anything, because I'm not even sure how his deck works.)
Game 2: He goes first, he plays a Forest and passes the turn. I play a Gemstone Mine, and pass the turn. At the end of his turn, I cast a Brainstorm, giving me another Rite of Flame and another Lion's Eye Diamond. I keep the Rite of Flame and draw the Lion's Eye Diamond during my next turn. I play an Undiscovered Paradise, play both of the Lion's Eye Diamonds from my hand, then cast Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame into Burning Wish, breaking 1 Lion's Eye Diamond in response, and cast Empty the Warrens. I get 12 Goblins and he picks his cards up and concedes.
3rd Round: GR Berserk Stompy (Won 2-0)
Game 1: (He wins the dice roll) He plays a Taiga, casts a Llanowar Elf and passes the turn. I play a City of Brass and cast a Ponder, the Ponder yields me 2 Infernal Tutor's and a Brainstorm, all of which are no help. So, I shuffle my deck, draw a Lotus Petal and pass the turn. He plays a Forest, then plays a Silhana Ledgewalker and attacks me for 1 point with the Elf and passes the turn. I go into my turn and play a Lion's Eye Diamond, 2 Lotus Petals, and cast a Rite of Flame. I then cast a Burning Wish, sacrificing my Lion's Eye Diamond and a Petal all for Red, and Empty the Warrens. I get 12 Goblins and pass the turn. He looks at me and goes "So those are all 1/1's right?" And I say "Yes, they are". He proceeds to play another Taiga and attack me with his Ledgewalker, I take the point, and he plays another one and passes the turn. I go into my turn, and swing for 12. He blocks with his 1 Elf taking 11 points. I pass the turn, and he draws his card which apparently was of no help because he scooped up his cards and we went to game 2.
Game 2: He decides that he doesn't want to play first, and play second instead. I draw an amazingly good hand of (Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Forbidden Orchard, ADN, Lion's Eye Diamond, Burning Wish, Cabal Ritual. I play my Orchard, cast Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, play my Lion's Eye Diamond and cast ADN sacrificing my Lion's Eye Diamond for RRR in response. I reveal plenty of good stuff, and Tendrils him with my main deck one. After he scooped up his cards he goes "Wow, that was just tons of fun."
4th Round: GWR Zoo (Won 2-0)
Game 1: (I win the dice roll) I play a Gemstone Mine and pass the turn, he then proceeds to fetch for a Taiga and cast a Wild Nicatal and then passes the turn. I end of his turn cast a Mystical Tutor, to go and get ADN. I play another Gemstone mine, then a Lotus Petal, then I cast a Dark Ritual, sacrificing Lotus Petal for Black, and cast ADN. I reveal enough spells and mana ramp to cast an Infernal Tutor, responding with a Lion's Eye Diamond to get a Burning Wish and Tendrils him.
(He shows me flat out that he is boarding in 3 Ethersworn Canonist and two Chalice of the Voids. So I boarded in 2 Shattering Sprees for 2 Ponders again)
Game 2: I decided that my hand just wasn't going to cut it, with no mana ramp other then a Cabal Ritual, a bunch of tutors, an ADN, and no land. I mulligan to 6. He decides that he is going to play first, he fetches for a Savannah, and plays a Jungle Lion and passes the turn. I play a Forbidden Orchard and pass the turn. He then plays another Savannah and drops a Runed Halo naming Tendrils. He attacks me with the Jungle Lion and passes the turn. At the end of his turn, I cast a Mystical Tutor for ADN. I draw my ADN and play a Gemstone Mine, I then played a Lion's Eye Diamond from my hand and a Chrome Mox imprinting an Infernal Tutor. I play a Dark Ritual, and tap my Mox and my remaining land and cast ADN. I again reveal plenty of good stuff to Empty the Warrens for 18 Goblins, and pass the turn. He plays a Tarmogoyf of good size after my ADN and passes the turn. I decide to attack for 18 and he blocks 2. taking 16. I pass the turn, and he plays a Wild Nicatal and passes the turn. I attack for 16, he blocks 2 of them for no reason and of course the game is done.
Top 4: (GW Astral Slide, T.E.S(Me), Eyeless Ichorid, and 2-Land Belcher)
I got paired against Astral Slide, which is obviously a favorable match up.
Round 1: GW Astral Slide (Won 2-0)
Game 1: (He wins the dice roll) He is on the play. He fetches for a Savannah and passes the turn. I draw my card and play a Gemstone Mine and pass the turn, he then at the end of my turn, cycles a Tranquil Thicket. Goes into his turn, plays a Forest and plays a Wall of Blossoms. I go into my turn, play a City of Brass and a Chrome Mox imprinting an Infernal Tutor and then play a Dark Ritual followed by a Lion's Eye Diamond. I tap both of my lands for a quick ADN, again ramping up enough spells to Burning Wish into a Tendrils and win.
(I board in 2 Shattering Sprees for 2 Ponders again)
Game 2: He decides that he wants to be on the play, and plays a Savannah again and passes the turn. I draw, play a City of Brass and pass the turn. He, at the end of my turn, cycles a Tranquil Thicket and goes into his turn. He plays a Plains and passes the turn. I, at the end of his turn, Brainstorm into a Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame and Cabal Ritual. So, I keep the Rite of Flame and draw the next during my turn. I play another City of Brass and pass the turn. He goes into his turn, casts a Solitary Confinement and passes. I go into my turn, draw the Cabal Ritual I cast Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Cabal Ritual into ADN and reveal another good ADN draw down to 10 life points. I manage to have enough mana after the ADN to cast an Empty the Warrens with 10 storm, giving me 20 Goblins. With the mana remaining I cast an Infernal Tutor, in response sacrificing a Lion's Eye Diamond to get a Burning Wish getting Hull Breach. I pass the turn with Hull Breach in my hand, and pass the turn. He goes into his turn and scoops his cards up.
Round 2: Eyless Ichorid (Won 2-0)
The person playing the deck decides that he wants to split the prize money down the middle and give me the 2-0 Victory.... I was okay with that.
All in all, it was a fun night and I really enjoyed playing the deck. :cool:
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Nothing better than teaching people that decks should interact not later than turn 2 on the play. Congrats on the finish.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Thanks, I applied to the Storm boards by the way. :smile:
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
If you were to add Chants back in (which I think you should), what cards would you replace it with? I think you were lucky that you didn't play against any deck with countermagic besides Psychatog. Any good combo deck would have won this one.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBean
Round 2: Eyless Ichorid (Won 2-0)
The person playing the deck decides that he wants to split the prize money down the middle and give me the 2-0 Victory.... I was okay with that.
This would has been an interesting comment...however considering that it was a non LED ichorid i think that it was a good pairing...
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
If you don't run it out on the table you're paying a G to generate a R. Seems awful. Cabal Ritual can't offer the option of red mana, you're correct. Black mana is this deck is by far more important than red, which is why most of us play Cabal Ritual. Not to mention, Cabal Ritual has the strong possibility of creating an additional BBB.
I'll concede the fact you have to cast Orim's on your turn compared to Tinderwall.
Tempo based decks are more popular than ever. People are over exaggerating the presence of counterbalance. Between Merfolk, Team America, and Tempo Thresh it's more than UGW Counterbalance Thresh.
It could be that not giving mana to decks is a general gameplan... You're idea on Nauseum being protection is warped. Chant makes sure your spells resolve where Ad Nauseum runs headfirst into counterspells.
Well, I don't care for Mystical either, but it's better than flipping an additional ten on another Ad Nauseum. You seem to use Diminishing Returns too much when you should just be Igg looping for the win.
1) Both G for RR and 1B for BBB are bad, but G, pass for RR + Untapped Land is faster and more consistent than 1B, threshold for BBBBB, IMO. My point wasn't that Tinder Wall produced Red mana and Cabal Ritual produces black man, my point was that it's easier/faster for Tinder Wall to produce additional mana than it is for Cabal Ritual to produce additional mana and you can use Tinder Wall during your upkeep to cast Ad Nauseam (Cabal Ritual doesn't really help because if you have 2 mana to cast Cabal Ritual then you've got 5 mana to cast Ad Nauseam regardless)
2) Ok
3) Could be metagames, Counterbalance > Tempo here.
4) No, Orim's Chant compensated for the inherent "inefficiencies" of the original storm engines, Ill Gotten Gains recurs counters and Diminishing Returns draws 7 cards etc. Ad Nauseam doesn't have an inherent "inefficiency" against the opponent's disruption, because there's no chance they'll be able to recur or draw into a counter or Stifle the Tendrils of Agony off the IGG chain.
Essentially Ad Nauseam is protection because it doesn't require a 2cc tutor to search for it, it doesn't recur/draw counters and you can draw into disruption to protect your kill from Stifle.
5) I'd argue revealing Ad Nauseam off of Diminishing Returns and Brainstorm/Ponder is more important than not taking 5/10 more damage off of Ad Nauseam->Ad Nauseam.
How exactly am I using Diminishing Returns when I should be using Ill Gotten Gains instead?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I do own my play-set of Orim's Chant already, and I'm not sure if you read my post or not, but it says why I took them out for that day. I also explained that after the tournament was done, I wish I would have never taken them out to begin with.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
So it's back to the list of -2 Duress and -2 Cabal Ritual for the 4 Chants? Well anyway, congrats on the finish.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Yep it sure is, and thanks :smile:
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I'd like to know if anybody has found GrapeShot usefull in the side and why
because I really don't find it necesary , its only purpose is killing mayb meddlimages and gaddock teeg, buut is not pyroclasm much more better for this goal?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pelikanudo
I'd like to know if anybody has found GrapeShot usefull in the side and why
because I really don't find it necesary , its only purpose is killing mayb meddlimages and gaddock teeg, buut is not pyroclasm much more better for this goal?
It also doubles as a more cost effective win condition if you're opponent is at 10 life or less. Grapeshot = hate bear killer or a win condition. Pyroclasm = hate bear killer. You decide.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arsenal
It also doubles as a more cost effective win condition if you're opponent is at 10 life or less. Grapeshot = hate bear killer or a win condition. Pyroclasm = hate bear killer. You decide.
well , the only situation in which our opponent is at 10 life when we start the combo is... neverˇ even we can win with tendrils in this situation with simply less storm..
I've played maany times and almost always I finish with Tendrils and in rare occasions Empty TW, but never grapeshot,
however once I found in table a mage naming tendrils and a canonist , well concretly to this situation burnin-> + next turn pyroclasm is the most efficient,
if there are 2 annoying boys in table like this (or mage + teeg or canonist + x, etc) it's more efficient to play pyroclasm ,hell , we even avoid to cast more crds from our hand in order to avoid making stormˇˇ
