[Deck] Zoo

What about testing a version less explosive with more control stuff?
I'm testing a list that suites quite well against others aggro or aggro/control and hasn't auto-loss with ANT.

I tried to keep Gaddock maindeck to lock ANT and Natural Order in primis, and then to use the stoneforge mystic to have an advantage against aggro/aggro control and Naya Charm to have an unaspected stuff for all, it's never awful except for ANT.

The list is

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Hath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Plateu
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild nacatl
3 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
1 Figure of Destiny
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Helix
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Naya Charm
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard

3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Choke
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ranger of Eos
1 Aven Mindcensor


The aggro component in my opinion is the best, 9 high drops for the race, 3 mancers to set the game and only 1 figure for the late game.
4 tarmo for sure, then 3 gaddock for ANT to force your mulligan in 1st game, 3 qasali and 2 mystic.
Knight is no good for my metagame.
Mystic can take collar to strenght mancers abilities or the classic jitte, and naya charm often chooses tap all opponent creatures to strike the final attack.

Sideboarding 2 Ranger and 1 more jitte against aggro (taking gaddock place) gives you a lot of stuff to change the game in your favor in every moment of the game, you can choose FoD, mancers if you have the collar, cats or whatever you need.
Aven is a jolly for ANT, survival and natural order and the rest of the side is almost comprehensible...

EDIT:

my playtests at the moment:

ANT: 4-6 pre-side, 5-5 post-side
Pro-Bant: 7-3 pre-side, 7-3 post-side
Goblin: 8-2 pre-side, 7-3 post-side
Merfolk: 7-3 pre-side, 8-2 post-side
Canadian: 5-5 pre-side, 6-4 post-side
Survival: 4-6 pre-side, 7-3 post-side
Zoo: 7-3 pre-side, 7-3 post-side

Not so much, but enough to realize that it's not so bad.

Well, I think in your deck are 4 Grim Lavamancer better than 3. I like the Combo with Basilisk Collar and Lavamancer. Furthermore I think Figure is better than Kird Ape and Loam Lion, maybe you cut the Loam Lion for 2 Figures and 2 Naya Charm for 2 KnightotReliquary. Beside I think 4 Pridemage are necessary for this deck cause than you have more hate against some Countertopbuilds, Dreadnoughts and Stompybuilds.

Pridemage makes the deck so all arround and flexible without losing any speed or consistence.

To people with jitte in their board wich matchups do you bring it in for?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rizso

To people with jitte in their board wich matchups do you bring it in for?

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Mirror, Rock, Merfolk, Burn and other fast Aggrodecks, Canadian Thresh. I really like Jitte against Thresh, if Jitte resolves, Jitte will win always against Thresh, it is sooooo good. Against Rock I exspect Jitte from the Rock player and my Jitte is the 5 removal for the oppenents jitte with pridemage. Merfolk the same furthermore Jitte is win against merfolk too.

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Originally Posted by DCTopTeam

How about running a singleton of Natural Order and Progen? Anyone tried this? Well, if it sounds stupid then forget it. Anyways, havent played this deck for a while since I T4'ed a year-end tournament last December. Its been almost 3 months now, LOL. Im planning to attend another big tournament this weekend with practically the same list except that im changing 3 Firespouts in the SB to 3 Teegs due to my STUPID loss to ANT and dropping 1 Chain and 1 Bolt in favor of 2 Fireblasts. Heres the list below. Id like you guys to comment if its still the optimal build for Zoo. Predicted meta is Goblins, ProBant and Merfolk.

2 Arid Mesa
3 Windswepth Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest

Spells
4 Path to Exile
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Chain Lightning
4 Kird Ape
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Lightning Helix
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Sylvan Library
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Fireblast

SB/
3 Firespout (WILL CHANGE TO 3 Teegs!!!!!!!!!)
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Krosan Grip

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First place (63 players) with not exactly this build. Will write details later today. :tongue:

I went 5-0-1 today (26 people) with my build http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post438768

4-0-1 in the Swiss
1-0 in Top8 then split store credit

Top4 decks were Zoo (me), Bant Survival (Iona & Loyal Retainers), Aluren and Homebrewed Rock build.

Rd1 2-1 vs RGBw Aggro Loam w/ Burning wishes, Devastating dreams, Tombstalker & Knight of Reliquary main.
G1 I get him really low between chain lightnings are Lavamancer & Goyf.. but he is at 3 and I have no cards in hand as I play my goyf and he devastating dreams for like 5 so I take him to 1 w/ Lavamancer, everything dies.
We play draw-go for a few turns while he finds lands and starts loaming again while I draw Chain lightning & Lightning bolt... waiting to get a land.
Thankfully he already blew up all my basics with Devastating Dreams so I have no way to draw those (which is good since I need a fetch and burn in hand). I draw Arid mesa and chain him.
G2 He gets a broken Mox diamond, land, Chalice for 1 turn 1 and I can only muster up a Gaddock teeg t2 while he has a Crusher.
I see the writing on the wall after he plays Life from loam and pack em up for G3.
G3 I get a T1 Nacatl followed up with a t2 Goyf while he makes a Chalice for 1. I savagely rip Krosan grip and get his Chalice before combats so goyf is now a 3/4 and I start smashing him.
He gets a T4 Knight of Reliquary w/ 2 fetches in yard. I savagely rip a Lightning bolt and swing in.. He blocks goyf and I bolt his Knight post combat and play my 2nd Goyf.
He draws and plays Loam, I swing for a lot and he devastating dreams on his turn but cant kill my goyf and concedes.

Rd2 ANT 2-0
G1 he keeps a hand w/ a lot of disruption but I just play t1 Kird ape, t2 Gaddock teeg and get him with double goyf a few turns later as he is unable to go off.
G2 more of the same but with 4 Mindbreak traps and 4 Teegs main this time. Blow out as he keeps an Island and ponder w/ enough gas to go off if he can only get Black source. 2 Brainstorms and 2 Ponders later he cant get another mana source and I win.

Way to beat 2 of the worst matchups I have... Sick life.

Rd3 vs Mono black w/ Nev Disks, Bojuka bogs, etc. (The one list that top8'd SCG 5K Indy) 2-0
G1 I win the dye roll and go t1 Lavamancer as he goes Swamp, ritual, hymn nabbing 1 of my lands and a spell... while feeding my mancer. I play nothing since I can't draw land and he hymns me again, now I am down to just a goyf in hand and no land to play it.
I savagely rip a mountain and produce my goyf and together him and Lavamancer get him as he draws no creatures the entire game but only 4 Hymn to tourachs!
G2 I bring in Jitte and K-grip and I just get there by savagely ripping 2 Qasali pridemages for both his Phyrexian arenas before he gets to draw any cards from them. Eventually a KoR and Nacatl get him.

Rd4 vs Mono blue Merfolk (Yay!) 2-0
G1 & G2, Zoo does what zoo does to little blue fish.

Rd5 vs Aluren who is also 4-0 so we ID into Top8.


(Top8) Rd 6 vs Mono blue Merfolk (from rd4) 2-0
I get paired vs the Merfolk player I beat in the swiss, so its a no brainer I ask to play it out.
I get him in 2 quick games as he is unable to beat a t1 Nacatl and a t2 Lavamancer (which I sandbagged since I wanted him to FoW the nacatl if anything as I had Goyf in hand as well) Sick life.

Rd7 I get paired vs The Rock and seeing as its a bad matchup I am OK w/ the draw. Everyone is fine with that.

Only diff to the list I made is SB: -1 Jitte +1 Mindbreak trap. Main: -2 Lightning Helix +1 PtE +1 Chain Lightning

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCTopTeam

First place (63 players) with not exactly this build. Will write details later today. :tongue:

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Congrats DCTopTeam for the strong finish! So your list, kind of different build :smile:

Hope you can post your match ups!

I will be playing zoo at this moment. I think that the discussion about Dark Confidant is still important. I believe that Steppe Lynx has not been fully exploded preciselly because of the lack of black in today´s zoo lists. So, what about a 11 fetchland-4 color build that uses this 2/1 body as draw engine?


I am currently testing this 61 cards list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quasali Priedmage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx

2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix

4 Path to Exile

1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa´s Jitte

20 Lands:

3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacomb
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
2 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Savanna
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

SB:
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
1 Umezawa´s Jitte
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Canonist
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod´s Crypt

I know it may look iffy because of the pure aggro nature of zoo, but if you think about it it is not that unorthodox. When compared to Kird Ape, the Lynx is almost allways better in the early game (you know, with a high fetchland count).

Against control the Confidant is superb and when intertwined with S. Library you have a montrous advantage. Running a single Jitte has been nice because with this engine it does not look random anymore.

Combo is still a bad match up for us but we can still try to race their Ad Nauseam range (overall, with the help of a little cat that may punch them by four on turn two and then a bolt that got them down to 13).

About the mana base. I am trying with only two black sources (1 Scrubland and 1 Bayou) and, since the Kird Apes are out, only a single Taiga. I would love to play another Taiga (and also Savvana) but I can´t find a space for it. The Fetch Lands are a must not only because of the Lynx but also because of KoTR. Any advice here would be greately appreciated.

Of course, it is difficult to play against tempo thresh or even eva green because of the mana denial plan that characterize those constructions. However, it is not impossible to race them (specially eva green, whichs suicidal strategy acts against it when facing aggro).

Thanks for reading and for your help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dazed

I will be playing zoo at this moment. I think that the discussion about Dark Confidant is still important. I believe that Steppe Lynx has not been fully exploded preciselly because of the lack of black in today´s zoo lists. So, what about a 11 fetchland-4 color build that uses this 2/1 body as draw engine?

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I'm a fan of including good cards (such as Dark Confidant) at the expense of relatively weaker ones (which is the case with whatever it replaces). The big question if whether the manabase can sustain it and whether the superior power is worth the tradeoff in stability--and the answer would depend on how the change affects various matchups.

I suspect that this isn't the case in most matchups, or Dark Zoo would be more widely played by now, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility right away. I'm very curious how the testing plays out--please let us know how it goes!

I have played tribal zoo for at least two years, and I have stopped playing it cause it's impossible to win a match with canadian. Wasteland and stifle are the only enemies of this deck.
If canadian wasn't in the metagame, I would play a different list

4 nacatl
4 steppe lynx
2 grim lavamancer
3 qasali pridemage
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
2 gaddock teeg
2 knight of reliquary
4 lightning bolt
4 tribal flames
3 path to exile
3 vindicate
4 wooded foothills
3 windswept heath
4 arid mesa
1 taiga
2 plateau
1 savannah
1 bayou
1 badland
1 scrubland
1 volcanic island
1 forest
1 plains

60 cards, 21 lands (11 fetch)

Vindicate and tribal flames are the most important cards for this type of zoo. You can't leave them out.
My best results with this deck are 6-2 in the Annecy legacy in 2008 (35° on 290 players), and I won and top8ed several 40-60 players tournaments, with those lists on deckcheck.

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22184
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22345
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22892

I abandoned this deck because of many canadian and stacks in the metagame, but I don't know if now it's the moment for its resurrection...

is there any advantage the would will people to run loam lion over extra kird ape? if you ask me, it's so stupid. the are more sorces of red in the deck than white. i don't see anything else that would persuade me otherwise.
also, on that deck that won the 63 person tournament: are you seriuosly only running 3 lightning bolt? HAHA, wow. i know some people are stupid but that's ridiculous to only run 3 bolt when you're running the INARGUABLY INFERIOR chain lightning in the deck. grats on the great finish but the list just seems wrong to me.

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Originally Posted by MTL10

is there any advantage the would will people to run loam lion over extra kird ape? if you ask me, it's so stupid. the are more sorces of red in the deck than white. i don't see anything else that would persuade me otherwise.

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Loam Lion cannot get countered or killed by Blue Elemental Blast or Hydroblast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nelis

Loam Lion cannot get countered or killed by Blue Elemental Blast or Hydroblast.

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Right, but going further, they will still have that BEB in hand waiting. What's worse, them destroying Kird Ape or countering a Burn spell?

In searching for sideboard cards in my binder, I found some Flametongue Kavu. Wouldn't these be effective against Bant decks? They kill the occasional Tarmogoyf, Pridemage, and most importantly Rhox War Monk. I think I'm gonna give them a try.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by troopatroop

Right, but going further, they will still have that BEB in hand waiting. What's worse, them destroying Kird Ape or countering a Burn spell?

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It's worse to even give them that option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KrzyMoose

It's worse to even give them that option.

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What are you saying here? You're going to have other red cards for them to stop, and sometimes it would be better if they went 1for1 for your Kird Ape/Loam Lion instead of an important burn spell. It's not always worse, not even close. I'd be happy to see their SB cards deal with my Kird Apes tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by troopatroop

What are you saying here? You're going to have other red cards for them to stop, and sometimes it would be better if they went 1for1 for your Kird Ape/Loam Lion instead of an important burn spell. It's not always worse, not even close. I'd be happy to see their SB cards deal with my Kird Apes tbh.

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I was going to write a response, but I think this article by PV illustrates the idea better than I could:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/f..._in_Magic.html

It should be open to everyone.

The relevant part is this:

"By the same token, do not give your opponent more choices! Of course, this does not apply to completely stupid individuals. Some guys just look like they’ve been Mindslavered every turn, and to those you don’t mind giving a lot of choices because you know they will make the wrong ones, but you shouldn’t need any help beating those. If you are paired against a good player, do not give him choices!

I remember reading in more than one place that Loam Lion was better than Kird Ape - that, all things considered, the fact that it died to Deathmark was not relevant, because if your opponent wanted to spend that Deathmark on your Lion he wouldn’t have one to kill your Goyf, Nacatl, Baneslayer, Reliquary, etc. This is simply not correct. Your opponent does not have to Deathmark this guy just because he can! With Kird Ape, your opponent cannot cast Deathmark, but with this guy he has the option to either do it or not, and this can only be good for him! If he is going to die to any of the previously mentioned cards, he is simply not going to hit this guy, and he will be just like a Kird Ape. If he is dying to this guy, though, then he is much worse! What if your opponent’s hand is four Deathmarks? What if he just needs some time to kill you and so doesn’t care about the big guys? What if he is on two life and this is your only guy? It is hoping too much that your opponent will misplay and hit this guy when he shouldn’t - it is much better to hope that, from time to time, he is going to actively want to kill your guy, but then won’t be able to because his spell can‘t target it. "

*edit* Yeh, it's about Extended Zoo, but the point is still applicable.

*edit 2* Also, I think Steppe Lynx is better, depending on your meta, than either Ape or Lion. If there's a lot of the mirror, Ape/Lion might be better. But, I think that in almost all other matchups, Lynx is better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by troopatroop

Right, but going further, they will still have that BEB in hand waiting. What's worse, them destroying Kird Ape or countering a Burn spell?

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Most damage is done by creatures because they can attack multiple times. So if they can't destroy my Loam Lion they're welkom to counter my burn spell but my Loam Lion would have done its damage. Besides Loam Lion would have enabled me to put pressure on them and to deal with my Lion they're likely to tap out. So I have a window of opportunity to use my burn spells anyway.

As for the Loam Lion vs Kird Ape debate... I think the question is really more direct than you have made it so far.

Kird Ape dies to BEB and HBlast.
Loam Lion dies to Deathmark.

Do you want you value the ability to remove opponents choices?
Do you expect a higher density of Blasts or Marks?

Personally I don't think there is a right answer honestly because there are so many variable that adjust from game to game. Personally I prefer Lion simply because your opponents will never use blasts on Ape (from personal experience) but opponents will occasionally be an idiot and Mark the Lion instead... I would rather lose my Lion than my Teeg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nodahero

Personally I don't think there is a right answer honestly because there are so many variable that adjust from game to game.

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That's why I run a mix of both.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCTopTeam

First place (63 players) with not exactly this build. Will write details later today. :tongue:

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Ok as promised, here is my decklist that top-ed a 63 player Legacy tournament last 27 March 2010. A number of pages back, I managed to place 4th in a 60 player tourney last December losing to ANT in the Semis because I didn’t have an SB for it. Well, lessons learned for me. 2nd to 8th place is as follows: UGR Fae (this deck won that December tournament), Canadian Threshold, UG Merfolk, Mono Red Burn, Green Stax Aggro, Dark Depths Combo and Slivers.

First off, the decklist:

Lands
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah

Critters

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Loam Lion
2 Kird Ape
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Sylvan Library
4 Path to Exile
60

Sideboard
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
3 Krosan Grip
2 Swords to Plowshares
15

Explanation for decklist:

1. No Lightning Helix – Yes I have 0 Helix. Maybe people here can remember that I am not a fan of Helix because it’s a 2cc removal. It helped me in the sense that it gave immense pressure to opponents as I almost always had T1 Nacatl or Ape or Lion, T2 spot remove using a 1cc (Chain, Bolt or PTE) thus swing for 3 or 2 and still manage to drop another 1cc threat. I didn’t regret completely dropping it.

2. Sylvan Library upped to three (3) from my previous two (2) – Was my MVP all day! Enough said. Got the 3-Library concept from Alix.

3. Two (2) maindeck Teegs – I learned my lesson the hard way. I also had one on the side. This was crucial in the matchup against UGR Fae. Will elaborate later.

4. Loam Lion – Was also huge. I had a lot of 1cc threats that immensely pressured opponents early on.

5. Figure of Destiny – Got this from HLikeALion. It’s still worth playing if you ask me. Id probably cut it to two (2) though since it’s a little mana-intensive.

6. Bloodstained Mire – This was supposed to be Arid Mesa but I didn’t have the time to look for one because I was not expecting to play this deck weeks before the tournament.

1st Rd. BG Rock

Game 1: I spot-remove everything he lands while I beat him down with 2 Nacatls and 1 Ape. Had a S. Library in play. WIN

Game 2: He disrupts my hand and I can’t recover. Gatekeeper and Nyxathid finishes me off. LOSE

Game 3: I can’t remember how I beat him (sorry) I remembered I had a Loam Lion. He Deeds me twice but I still won. After the game I still have a Goyf, KoTR and a Nacatl in Hand. WIN

Match 2-1; Overall 1-0

2nd Rd. GWB Beats

Game 1: All he could do is Vial. He drops a Mother of Runes which I immediately take care off. He drops a Spectral Lynx, got me worried since I had a Goyf and dint want him to recover. I take care of the Lynx (Bolt) since he had no open mana to regen it and I win using FoD and 2 Loam Lions. WIN

Game 2: I had Sylvan Lib in play on this one. He starts slow again. He cast a Sword of L and S but I immediately Grip it. I win by Pridemage, Ape, Goyf. WIN

I dint actually see his deck because of the way I won. I don’t know what’s going on but He was running into some mana screws or something. Well, Zoo punishes bad draws right? Not taking anything away from him and his deck, but, my easiest match of the day.

Match 2-0; Overall 2-0

3rd Rd. UGR Merfolk

Game 1: Remove every creature he lands. While Loam Lion, Ape and Nacatl finishes him off. WIN

Game 2: 2nd Turn Chill for him. I see 2 Bolts, an Ape, and a Lavamancer in my hand. I draw red spells for two consecutive turns while he “curves” and beats me down. LOSE

Game 3: Goyf and Nacatl gives him the early damage. I had a Library in play. All he could muster is 3 Cursecatchers. He plays Jitte which I Grip before he equips it to his Catcher. WIN

Match 2-1; Overall 3-0

4th Rd. Slivers

Game 1: I beat him down with Gaddock and some other crits. He had no Crystalline and my removals were free to their thing. WIN

Game 2: I had a slow slow start. His troops fly and can’t be targeted. I had plenty of removals with no critters. LOSE

Game 3: Times up. Needed a turn to kill him… BAD BAD

Match 1-1; Overall 3-0-1

5th Rd. MBC

Game 1: He Extripates my Foothills! Next he Wastelands my Taiga and Extirpates my Taiga! I was shocked of what happened honestly. I was staring at my 1/1 Ape. He beats me down w/ Withered Wretch, Bob, Misha’s Factory and Hypno Spec. LOSE

Game 2: He does his discard thing. He doesn’t play anything significant next. I beat him down with 2 Loam Lion and Goyf. WIN

Game 3: He gambles with a bad but potentially explosive hand. He draws crap the next turns. I win by Nacatl, Goyf. Had Sylvan Library in play. WIN

Match 2-1; Overall 4-0-1

6th Rd. UG Merfolk

We ID

After Swiss I was ranked 5th. I knew that the next rounds leading to the Finals won’t be as easy now. Top 8 after Swiss:

Canadian Thresh
Mono Red Sligh
Mono Green Stompy
Dark Depths
Zoo (me)
UG Merfolk
UGR Fae
Slivers

Quarters Dark Depths

Game 1: I thought that his deck was just some MBC stuff so I PTE his Confidant. A turn later he does his thing. A 20/20 critter got me scooping. LOSE

Game 2: He does nothing significant and I beat him down with Apes, Nacatls, Lions and Goyf. WIN

Game 3: He misplays terribly. He drops a Hexmage and I saw no PTE or STP in my hand. I Dropped Mancer and passed. He drops a Swamp which gave me a sigh of relief. On the same turn, he Senseis, and I think he picked up a Dark Depths. He land dropped the Depths but I reminded him that he already had played a land. Land count during that time was he @ 4 and me @ 3. So if I allow the Depths the land count would be him @ 5 and me @ 3. His mistake is that he didn’t upkeep-Top. He gentleman-ly gets the Depth back in his hand and passes the turn. I Mancer his Hexmage and proceeded with the beatdown of FoD, Nacatl and Goyf. WIN

Semis UGR Thresh

Game 1: He drops an Island and passes. For the next three turns, my fetches got Stifled. Could you believe it??? My fourth land drop was met by a Wasteland. He proceeds with a Mongoose and Goyf beatdown.

Game 2: I give him an early beatdown and some burns. Sylvan Lib was huge. WIN

Game 3: This was back and forth. I fetch a Forest and dropped Nacatl. I fetched a Plateau and swung for 3. He Wastelands my Plateau. I luckily top decked another Plat and Nacatl again swings for 3. Mid game I STP and PTE his Goyfs. He lands another Goyf lucky for me I top decked a KoTR. The dude was 9/9. He resolves and joins Loam Lion on my board. I dropped Sylv Lib again on my next turn and attacked with KoTR which was met by an E. Truth. I recast the KoTR again and during my next turn I Libraried another KoTR, a Goyf and a PTE. Sweet… I pick up the PTE. I beat him down and win. WIN

Finals UGR Fae

Game 1: I take care of his Goyfs which I think was the key. I managed to resolve a Teeg and he joins Kird Ape, Loam Lion and FoD. WIN

Game 2: I dropped another Teeg. I Had Loam and Goyf as well. He drops his own Goyf which I StP’ed. He cast E Explosives but I reminded him that there was a Teeg in play. Last 6 points of damage was dealt by Chain Lightning and Bolt. WIN


All in all, I was lucky that I was not matched up against any combo. There were numerous AnT’s and Dredge (which included my brother) during the day. I was not originally gonna be playing for various reasons.

Add to the fact that my last major tournament was way back last December 2009 wherein I placed 4th. It got me thinking if I was fit (mentally and physically) enough to play. I also only had three hours of sleep before the tournament.

When I arrived at the venue, I tried to be calm and relaxed. It helped me a lot. I was even talking and joking with my opponents during the game. Sorry I was not able to post a more in-depth report. Will do in the next tournament. After the game, I enjoyed a few beers with my brother.

Sweet! Zoo all the way!

I just started playing zoo and need some critics of my current decklist:

Zoo

Lands: 20

3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

Creatures: 20

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer

Spells: 20

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard: 15

4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist

thanks!

EDIT: Red elemental blast -not- Blue

I keep seeing lists with multiple Savannahs popping up. What is the benefit of Savannah over Horizon Canopy? Yeah, you can fetch it up obviously, but how many times do you fetch 2 Savannahs in the same game? I'd cut one and add Canopy, it is so underplayed and is a good addition to the mid and late games.

BEB? I hope that is a typo for pyroblast or REB. SB is based on meta, so if you are seeing combo constantly I guess that's ok. I'm nervous about the reanimator MU. We've been going over this and it might be ok to board in Faerie Macabre for some instant hate and an answer for the turn 1 nuts draw. I see lands as a bad match up most of the time and with the popularity that I saw SCG Richmond, I think PoP deserves a spot in the side.

I have been a fan of Fireblast, it might be worth cutting a helix and X for 2 of them. Try it out, it really helps sneak in that last bit of damage. 3 Sylvans is also the nuts if you can find the space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kanabo

I just started playing zoo and need some critics of my current decklist:

Zoo

Lands: 20

3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

Creatures: 20

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer

Spells: 20

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard: 15

4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist

thanks!

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Cut a Chain Lightning and add another land, and that would be my exact maindeck list. I would split your gravehate though because Pithing Needle still gets ran. And you don't need Blue Blasts so i would run PoP. It's insane in today's meta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kird Ape

I keep seeing lists with multiple Savannahs popping up. What is the benefit of Savannah over Horizon Canopy? Yeah, you can fetch it up obviously, but how many times do you fetch 2 Savannahs in the same game? I'd cut one and add Canopy, it is so underplayed and is a good addition to the mid and late games.

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My reason:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nelis

3. Every time I play this deck I dislike Horizon Canopy more and more. Today I lost the 2nd game vs Belcher because of it. It hurt me in multiple ways: I took 2 damage extra from it, I couldn't play out an extra creature (a fetch land or a forest dual would have been better) and I had Kird Apes die because they were only 1/1. Otherwise I would have been able to deal with his 14 tokens. I know this is just one specific situation but in other matches too my Kird Apes were of no use because Horizon Canopy is no Forest.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nelis

My reason:

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Amen to this. I've lost plenty of games to a Nacatl or Kird Ape not getting to optimal levels. Also I've been trying that KOTR that everyone has been jerking off to, and I'm not really fond of em. I run 10 fetches and i still don't get him bigger than Thoctar. And in my opinion, if you're tapping him for his ability, you're doing it wrong.

Edit: I still why he is good though, so noone get their panties in a wad.

So, anybody interested in the new level up creature from the new set?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1270181048

I'm not quite sure what I think of him, but I like him quite a bit. Compared to figure:
+ Needs less total investment to get to max form, which can do the same total damage
+ Can pay investments over more turns
+ Form 2 is better than figure stuck at 2/2
+ First/double strike with Jitte is very strong
- Form 2 is not as good as a 4/4 figure, although it's less mana
- Figure's final form flies
- Only uses :w:
- Can't level up at instant speed

However,I really almost just want to replace kird apes with this guy because I'm tired of him =| However, I'm not sure if it's too greedy to start wanting all the mana for this guy too. Anyway, I wish I had more time to elaborate on the discussion, but seeing as I'm at work I'll leave it here for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch

Amen to this. I've lost plenty of games to a Nacatl or Kird Ape not getting to optimal levels. Also I've been trying that KOTR that everyone has been jerking off to, and I'm not really fond of em. I run 10 fetches and i still don't get him bigger than Thoctar. And in my opinion, if you're tapping him for his ability, you're doing it wrong.

Edit: I still why he is good though, so noone get their panties in a wad.

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Agreed on Horizon canopy, I just finally cut mine for the 3rd Plateau. (3 Plateau, 3 Taiga, 1 Savannah)
As far as KoR goes, I am yet to use him for his ability but I do feel that in certain mirror-ish/standoff situations, he can break the stalemate via his ability.
Most of the times when he does come down, he is goyf like size or better.
Another reason I can see him being good is feeding Lavamancer and dodging wastelands.

He does push you to run bad things (IMHO!) like Treetop, Wasteland, Horizon canopy.

I don't think he pushes you to run any bad things. Knight is there for only three things in my opinion:

+ always be able to break creature stalemates
+ perhaps get you an extra mana to work with the next turn (and maybe play and use a jitte with your 4 mana)
+ fetch a horizon canopy or 2 so that even if he's dealt with you've gained some CA

You don't need to run anything extra to run him. I think these reasons alone make him worthwhile. Anyway, we're not having that discussion again :P Canopy still seems useful as a 1-2 of extra land. I guess I think that if you're not getting the cards to make kird ape or nacatl their maximum power, then you've probably got greater concerns on your hands. Same goes if you need to spend a lot of life on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valtrix

So, anybody interested in the new level up creature from the new set?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1270181048

I'm not quite sure what I think of him, but I like him quite a bit. Compared to figure:
+ Needs less total investment to get to max form, which can do the same total damage
+ Can pay investments over more turns
+ Form 2 is better than figure stuck at 2/2
+ First/double strike with Jitte is very strong
- Form 2 is not as good as a 4/4 figure, although it's less mana
- Figure's final form flies
- Only uses :w:

However,I really almost just want to replace kird apes with this guy because I'm tired of him =| However, I'm not sure if it's too greedy to start wanting all the mana for this guy too. Anyway, I wish I had more time to elaborate on the discussion, but seeing as I'm at work I'll leave it here for now.

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Interesting creature!
That guy is definitely test worthy. A 3/3 first striker for WW looks really good (take that Nimble Mongoose and Vampire Nighthawk!).
I don't think he'll be leveled up to a 4/4 too often though.

Comparing it to FoD is hard (which is the only worthy comparison IMO). I'm very fond of FoD and think is a great creature in Zoo. Making it a 4/4 is not hard and I've won a couple of games turning it into a 8/8.

Student is faster... but I'm not sure is better. But I'll definitely test it.

Level up doesn't work quite that way, since the creature starts at level 0 (with 0 counters on it), so it's actually W to play, then WW to get to the next form.

Problem is Figure can be "leveled" eot, instant speed, etc, so its less risk for a timewalk and can mess up combat.
This guy is WISYWIG. He won't make the cut over figure.

EDIT: not to mention Figure can be played/leveled with R or W mana

mmmm...
I asummed creatures started at level 1 (I'm used to PC RPG's).

Well, it's just a cute creature then. It won't even make it into my commons/uncommons cube, because it's a rare :(

Thanks for the clarification. Long live Figure!

KoTR has always worked well for me. The smallest that he has been for me was 5/5. 3cc @ 5/5 isnt that bad for me (considering he's gonna get bigger late game). Max of two IMHO.

What is the best board card against Storm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Svenyboy

What is the best board card against Storm?

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Ethersworn Canonist or Rule of Law are good sideboards against Storm. Mindbreak Trap is good also, but it seems like that card has made Storm play more cautiously and not go off until it has a Duress or Thoughtseize or Orim's Chant in hand.

I am considering -2 Teeg -1 Figure main for 1 Jitte, 1 Basilisk Collar, 1 Stoneforge Mystic.

Pros:
- I already run 4 Grim Lavamancer so Basilisk collar becomes a terminate + gain 2 life.
- All creatures wearing Collar become unblockable or block anything and trade.
- Jitte

Cons:
- Less combo, Staxx hate main deck

Lately our metagame has become infested with Black decks and Midrange rock decks which are bad matchups for Zoo.
Teeg has not been pulling his own in our metagame as it is poorly developed.

Has anyone tried running Stoneforge Mystic before?

EDIT:
I've searched the thread (durrr) and I see people talking about it, but nobody posting results, etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kanabo

I just started playing zoo and need some critics of my current decklist:

Zoo

Lands: 20

3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

Creatures: 20

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer

Spells: 20

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard: 15

4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist

thanks!

EDIT: Red elemental blast -not- Blue

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Canopy, 1 Path and 1 Library could all go for 2 Teeg and something else, probably Knight. Jitte could even move into the SB too, there are just some matchups where it is awful (vs combo, nimble mongoose, etc). In the SB, drop 1 REB and add 3 Mindbreak Trap. ANT is highly played and there will be a few in every tourney and you are just dead to it otherwise.


So, back to the FoD (and the just as poor river boa of death) over the Knight....there this card called Engineered Explosives. That is why the Knight is better. It gets just as big as the figure, and it doesnt commit you board to dying to EE for 1. Same reason goes for the Student of Warfare. I always want to go 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, anything else is just poor for the deck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce

I am considering -2 Teeg -1 Figure main for 1 Jitte, 1 Basilisk Collar, 1 Stoneforge Mystic.

Pros:
- I already run 4 Grim Lavamancer so Basilisk collar becomes a terminate + gain 2 life.
- All creatures wearing Collar become unblockable or block anything and trade.
- Jitte

Cons:
- Less combo, Staxx hate main deck

Lately our metagame has become infested with Black decks and Midrange rock decks which are bad matchups for Zoo.
Teeg has not been pulling his own in our metagame as it is poorly developed.

Has anyone tried running Stoneforge Mystic before?

EDIT:
I've searched the thread (durrr) and I see people talking about it, but nobody posting results, etc...

---

Here I am.
I made 2 top8 on 2 tournaments running mystic. The 1st one had 96 players and the 2nd one had 47.
But my list is quite different than yours. I run 1 mystic + 1 jitte + 1 collar but I still run 3 gaddock teeg because here in Italy ANT and NO Bant are well played and I dont't want to always lose the 1st game.

In the first one I played with 2 mystic and 2 equipments, without KotR, with libraries. But it was too heavy and I didn't like it so much.
In the second tournament I runned only 1 mystic + 2 equip, with 2 KotR and 1 treetop village, without Libraries. And I love it more, 'cause you never want to see Library when you run those tools.

In both the tournaments I loss at the 1st top8 match, in the 1st VS Faeries Ugr, 'cause I haven't KotR and he made 2 stifle and 2 wastelands in both games. 2 Days ago I loss instead VS ANT with perfect hands, I played Gaddock on the 2nd turn but he made 2 mystic, one searching chain and one searching Dark Ritual. In the 2nd game he started on the first turn with a couple pact of negation, one imprinted and one played on my red el. blast and GG. So I think I have to put something more against ANT in sideboard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesTheSmoker

Here I am.
I made 2 top8 on 2 tournaments running mystic. The 1st one had 96 players and the 2nd one had 47.
But my list is quite different than yours. I run 1 mystic + 1 jitte + 1 collar but I still run 3 gaddock teeg because here in Italy ANT and NO Bant are well played and I dont't want to always lose the 1st game.

In the first one I played with 2 mystic and 2 equipments, without KotR, with libraries. But it was too heavy and I didn't like it so much.
In the second tournament I runned only 1 mystic + 2 equip, with 2 KotR and 1 treetop village, without Libraries. And I love it more, 'cause you never want to see Library when you run those tools.

In both the tournaments I loss at the 1st top8 match, in the 1st VS Faeries Ugr, 'cause I haven't KotR and he made 2 stifle and 2 wastelands in both games. 2 Days ago I loss instead VS ANT with perfect hands, I played Gaddock on the 2nd turn but he made 2 mystic, one searching chain and one searching Dark Ritual. In the 2nd game he started on the first turn with a couple pact of negation, one imprinted and one played on my red el. blast and GG. So I think I have to put something more against ANT in sideboard

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Thanks for validating my attempt at Stoneforge Mystic +2 equip.
I run 4 Mindbreak trap in the SB and am 3-0 vs ANT so far in tournaments w/ this Zoo build.
Granted the pilot is not very experienced.
We do not have Natural Order in our meta, maybe 1 guy plays it.
We do have Staxx & Enchantress, and Teeg is really good vs Staxx and OK vs Enchantress (Moat/Sigil/Replenish)

I am running 2 Teeg, 4 Mindbreak trap, 2 Red Blasts in the SB.
Combo is going to be a bad matchup for creature deck most of the time unless you load up on the Canonists/Teegs, and then your aggro becomes weak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce

Thanks for validating my attempt at Stoneforge Mystic +2 equip.
I run 4 Mindbreak trap in the SB and am 3-0 vs ANT so far in tournaments w/ this Zoo build.
Granted the pilot is not very experienced.
We do not have Natural Order in our meta, maybe 1 guy plays it.
We do have Staxx & Enchantress, and Teeg is really good vs Staxx and OK vs Enchantress (Moat/Sigil/Replenish)

I am running 2 Teeg, 4 Mindbreak trap, 2 Red Blasts in the SB.
Combo is going to be a bad matchup for creature deck most of the time unless you load up on the Canonists/Teegs, and then your aggro becomes weak.

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I run 4 blasts, 2 aven mindcensor, 3 faerie macabre (for reanimate/dredge/survival which are always present in tournaments) 2 krosan grip 1 duergar hedge mage and 3 anti-aggro slots. I think I would switch it into 4 blasts, 3 faerie macabre, 2 krosan grip, 1 duergar, 1 jitte, 1 ranger of eos, 2 Mindbreak trap and 1 Aven Mindcensor. I run 3 Gaddock MD so 2nd and 3rd game vs ANT would see 3 Gaddock + 4 blasts + 2 Traps + 1 Aven. I hope that 10 slots would be enough.