[DTB] Blade Control

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

I frequently playtest with my roommate and whenever there is an attrition game being played, Riptide Lab gives my opponent a massive headache. I would say that Nic Fit is an unfavorable matchup for any Blade deck but I haven't lost a single game against it in testing simply because I could always grind out my opponent with a single lab. Nic Fit may not be a popular archetype but the same principle applies to Miracle. They try and keep the board clean and really lack land hate so a card like Karakas coupled with a clique or Lab with a Snap or Clique opens up a whole new can of worms for them.

Personally, this deck has given me the best results as of late compared to the usual (Delver and Jace decks). It scales beautifully throughout the course of the game and can takes on different roles depending on the matchup at hand. I've modified my successful list to reduce the amount of removal in favor of more control elements... So far, so good.


Creatures (12)
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (19)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Izzet Charm

Others (6)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives

Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Redirect
1 Izzet Charm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Blood Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives


Here's the list I am considering for my next tournament. SCG's should occur in the near future as I should be getting my passport soon. Every slot is carefully considered and the SB is built with all the major archetypes in mind. Constructive criticism is appreciated.

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my list is very similar to yours, but i'd like to share it anyway:

creatures(12)
2 lavamancer
2 snap
3 clique
4 sfm
1 restoration angel

spells(19)
4 plow
3 bolt
3 force
2 pierce
1 counterspell
4 brainstorm
2 detention sphere

walkers(3)
2 jace
1 elspeth

equip(3)
1 jitte
1 feast/famine
1 batterskull

lands(23)
4 strand
4 tarn
2 mesa
2 tundra
2 volcanic
1 plateau
1 ruins
1 karakas
1 mountain
2 plains
3 island

sb (15)

3 meddling mage
3 rest in peace
2 blood moon
2 pyroblast
2 wear/tear
2 supreme
1 ajani vengeant

main differences-

you play more counters/control elements - I prefer more threats.

I purposely lowered the value of snapcaster mage so that I could play rest in peace just because it is such a powerful card in the current meta

example sb vs deathrite/goyf:
sb in: 3 rip, 2 supreme, 2 blood moon
sb out: 3 force, 2 lavamancer, 2 snap

then i just assume a more control role, and try to chain rip>blood moon>supreme. I've done this several times, and its simply amazing. Just be careful of daze+stifle because assuming you are going to hit 4-5 mana before you die is foolish in this format. I will still try to plow/bolt early threats even if I have the supreme just to buy time/remove disruption. if you can land a sfm>batterskull with a mana up for a pierce, this will do work. rug delver is one of my best matchups. rip directly contributes to that.

another key difference is that I play a feast/famine, which I found to be very powerful, it will often allow me to play way more aggressively. i always have resto angel/clique mana/lavamancer/walker mana up. If you are in a "safe" spot you can tapout precombat for a walker, swing, then have all the mana in the world.

things that I consider adding:
izzet charm - seems versatile, ive tested with it before and been left largely unimpressed, hence my 1 counterspell.
explosives - all around very powerful removal, can be abused with ruins. way faster than supreme, and with the recent scg victory, this might become necessary. hard to play it with rip, but you can def do it (ideally want 2)
second resto - I really want this to happen most of all, but I'm not sure what can be cut for it at this time> maybe Ajani? So far, angel has been a beast for me, blocking delvers, representing snapcaster #3, extra cliques, extra sfm, dodges bolt, flash threat to equip up, etc, the list goes on. I really want another one in. I might cut a RIP for it, since it will be powerful in similar matchups. I really like RIP right now.
surgical - if i were to cut rip, this would HAVE to come in
sword of fire/ice - is it better than f/f? maybe.... Since I'm counter light and feel "soft" to the combo matchup, I just prefer f/f to this. Also, I tend to play more aggressively with f/f because of the free mana.

I can recall a turn vs shardless bug where I play ajani, tapped a tropical down, swung in with equipped mystic, untap, slam blood moon, plow deathrite.

some words on Ajani - I have found him to be stellar. nobody sees it coming, and I really like it in those grindy mifrange/control matchups - basically the jace matchups. I will bring him in vs liliana as well. He might be win more, but I really enjoy playing with it right now. The only reason I can run this is because I play the elspeth main over jace #3, which is questionable. It's worked out for me as of right now, especially with the new legend rule (survives a lot more), so I dont think it's a problem, it just feels weird to have 2 jace, 1 elspeth, 1 ajani as the walkers, but I dont want any more than 4-5 4 drops...

alternate sb: (seems better vs the aggro, less against the jace decks)
3 meddling mage
2 ee
2 blood moon
2 rip
1 supreme
1 resto
2 pyroblast
2 wear/tear

as of right now, the worst matchups are things like miracle control, where your removal/disruption doesnt really bother them and they can play around your counters and play large threats (like entreat). the 2 detention spheres really help in that matchup, if you can catch angels with it then youre ahead of the game. I dont mind playing it early on a counterbalance if there is a window. lll be in philly this weekend, and during the week im testing this and u/w miracles. I have more experience with miracles and I do love me an entreat, but I'm not sure if its right in a heavy tempo environment. Jund won 2 weeks ago, delver won this week, so who knows maybe control is poised. Anything is viable in this format, just go with something you like I guess. I have a list of cards that are "must haves" for me right now, maybe ill just throw them all together and play some u/w miracles with sfm deck.

well, thats my 2 cents. looking forward to any feedback, thanks guys.

I've been fiddling with a basics-heavy, four-drop-centric list designed to be more bomby and kick the crap out of BG decks. It's inspired in part by Jared Boettcher's list found above in SirTylerGalt's link above.

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
3 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas


4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Charm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Counterspell


SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Humility

Grim has been great when he sticks... the problem is that he doesn't. By cutting him, RIP becomes that much less of a pain in the SB and allows us to run trump cards like the aforementioned RIP and Humility with impunity.

Blood Moon is a card that I'm still bent on using since it, like Humility and RIP, can shut down an opponent if not removed or prevented. I know some believe that it has no place in here because we can't play it on turn 1 (like Stompy decks), but I feel it still has a place as a mid-late lock out.

Elspeth has also been stellar. BG decks have a difficult time dealing with her and the tokens she produces, and vaulting a Batterskull or Jitte-equipped dude can aid in the slaying of Lilianas and Jaces while simultaneously killing ground troops.

Venser's iffy for me. Consider it a flex spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

Venser's iffy for me. Consider it a flex spot.

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I played a few games against BUG on Cockatrice with Esper Wizardblade ( http://mythicgameselmira.com/article/WSS.html ). Venser was awesome. He used Lili's +1 with an empty hand, I responded with Venser, bouncing Lili, making him discard it :) It's also useful to protect your utility lands from wasteland...

I assembled Voltron in the post-SB game: Sorin + Elspeth + Jace. Poor BUG player...

That said, I think red gives us more options than black. I like bolt, REB, and Blood Moon better than discard, Sorin, and Perish... Playing black just for discard is meh. It's easier to justify when you play Lingering Souls or Deathrite Shaman.

Here's my latest decklist. I still can't beat decks with lots of recursion creatures like zombardment. I also can't beat Shardless for some reason. I know bloodmoon gets them, but as a two of its hard.

Lands
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
1 Plateau
1 Academy Ruins

creatures
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 restoration angel

spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Izzet Charm
1 ponder

artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives'

planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Envelop
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

I frequently playtest with my roommate and whenever there is an attrition game being played, Riptide Lab gives my opponent a massive headache. I would say that Nic Fit is an unfavorable matchup for any Blade deck but I haven't lost a single game against it in testing simply because I could always grind out my opponent with a single lab. Nic Fit may not be a popular archetype but the same principle applies to Miracle. They try and keep the board clean and really lack land hate so a card like Karakas coupled with a clique or Lab with a Snap or Clique opens up a whole new can of worms for them.

Personally, this deck has given me the best results as of late compared to the usual (Delver and Jace decks). It scales beautifully throughout the course of the game and can takes on different roles depending on the matchup at hand. I've modified my successful list to reduce the amount of removal in favor of more control elements... So far, so good.


Creatures (12)
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (19)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Izzet Charm

Others (6)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives

Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Counterspell
1 Redirect
1 Izzet Charm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Blood Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives


Here's the list I am considering for my next tournament. SCG's should occur in the near future as I should be getting my passport soon. Every slot is carefully considered and the SB is built with all the major archetypes in mind. Constructive criticism is appreciated.

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I've come up with a similar list, except for the Lavamancers which are fairly weak, as somebody else stated.
Another advantage of cutting Lavamancers is that you can play Rest in Peace that way, which is realistically the only hope Stoneblade has left to beat Punishing Fire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Piceli89

I've come up with a similar list, except for the Lavamancers which are fairly weak, as somebody else stated.
Another advantage of cutting Lavamancers is that you can play Rest in Peace that way, which is realistically the only hope Stoneblade has left to beat Punishing Fire.

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punishing fire sucks, but you got 3 surgicals in the board to handle them

I have this deck sleeved up for some time, and I am thinking about bringing it in a tournament comming up in some time. Basicaly, this is what I have so far

Creatures (11)

4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 venser shaper savant
Planeswalkers (3)

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)

3 Island
2 Plains
1 mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
1 glacial fortress
2 Volcanic Island
1 academy ruins
1 Karakas

Spells (24)

1 Batterskull
1 Blood Moon
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
2 spell snare
1 izzet charm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ponder

Sideboard

1 Engineered Explosives
1 sword of fire and ice
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Meddling Mage
2 flusterstorm
1 Detention Sphere
2 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
1 blood moon
1 celestial purge
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

As is, I like this list a lot. The only thing I am considering is -1 glacial fortress + 1 wasteland, and this is because it is something I usually did with my other versions of stoneblade, keep a 1-of wasteland in the deck in order to deal with a random land that could give me troubles later in the game (usually maze of ith, sometimes a random tar pit,...). My only real question is, what would you are as graveyard hate nowadays? I like relic, however I am somewhat scared of punishing fires. Is rest in peace better in that case? if yes, I am thinking about another configuration that would look like this for the sideboard :

1 Engineered Explosives
1 sword of fire and ice
1 Rest in peace
1 relic of progenitus
2 Meddling Mage
2 flusterstorm
1 Detention Sphere
2 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
1 enlighted tutor
1 celestial purge
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

What do you guys think about that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

I have this deck sleeved up for some time, and I am thinking about bringing it in a tournament comming up in some time. Basicaly, this is what I have so far

Creatures (11)

4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 venser shaper savant
Planeswalkers (3)

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)

3 Island
2 Plains
1 mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
1 glacial fortress
2 Volcanic Island
1 academy ruins
1 Karakas

Spells (24)

1 Batterskull
1 Blood Moon
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
2 spell snare
1 izzet charm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ponder

Sideboard

1 Engineered Explosives
1 sword of fire and ice
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Meddling Mage
2 flusterstorm
1 Detention Sphere
2 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
1 blood moon
1 celestial purge
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

As is, I like this list a lot. The only thing I am considering is -1 glacial fortress + 1 wasteland, and this is because it is something I usually did with my other versions of stoneblade, keep a 1-of wasteland in the deck in order to deal with a random land that could give me troubles later in the game (usually maze of ith, sometimes a random tar pit,...). My only real question is, what would you are as graveyard hate nowadays? I like relic, however I am somewhat scared of punishing fires. Is rest in peace better in that case? if you, I am thinking about another configuration that would look like this for the sideboard :

1 Engineered Explosives
1 sword of fire and ice
1 Rest in peace
1 relic of progenitus
2 Meddling Mage
2 flusterstorm
1 Detention Sphere
2 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
1 enlighted tutor
1 celestial purge
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

What do you guys think about that?

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I have been getting flooded even with 21 lands. I think 21 is the magic number

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

I have been getting flooded even with 21 lands. I think 21 is the magic number

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mmm, I don't know. I am kinda scared that I won't be able to get to 4 mana reliably, so 21 lands sounds a bit low.

I like 23-24. Gives you room for utility lands, more basics and ensures the crucial 4 mana this deck needs

I've achieved another top 4 performance with a similar list to the one I top 4'ed with a few weeks back (you can compare with the list I posted a couple pages back). Here's how it went, the list, and the thoughts that went into it:

Swiss:
2-0 vs. UG Infect (Too much 1 CMC removal to handle)
0-2 vs. Elves (Blowouts both games and a costly missplay during G2)
2-0 vs. Junk/Rock (Bad draws from my opponent made up for my poor plays)
2-1 vs. EtI Combo (Complete domination during G2-3)
0-0-1 Draw into top8

Top8
2-1 vs. RUG Delver (One of my bad matchups, Ponders and EE pulled me through 4 Mongeese)
0-2 vs. DeathBlade (Back and forth games with my opponent landing Jaces while I fail to find a red source for my spells)

It is interesting to note how I lost every single die roll except one during top 8. It has become a tradition by now...


Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells (22)
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares

Others (6)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (23)
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Blood Moon
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives


Ponder was an all-star the entire tournament. I drew them in every round and they granted my every wishes. I initially wanted to test a pair of Ponders to increase the availability of my red sources and to make sure that I would get a Jace by turn four, and it was a success.

Spell Snare was definitely a card that I wanted 2-3 copies of in whatever deck I chose to play for that venue. Most of the cards that I actually want to counter rather than remove have a CMC of 2. SFM, CB, RiP, Strix, and Snap are all top tier cards that I don't want resolved. They shone in testing but I didn't get to use more than 1 during the tournament.

I voted against Izzet Charm entirely and replaced it with a 3rd Bolt. Removal was what I used it the most for, Spell Pierce at 2 mana is underwhelming, and I currently have no Crucible of Worlds to abuse the 3rd ability. Bolts are better at handling Planeswalkers and that seems to be the only thing a 2 CMC Spell Pierce will counter.

I heeded SirTylerGalt's advice on Izzet Staticaster > Sulfur Elemental mainly because the card doubles up as hate against tribal, and I was expecting a few. Unfortunately, I didn't get to use him. The Elves matches were blowouts. I managed to get a Jitte online in both games and still lost miserably. However, I still feel like this matchup is in our favor, it simply didn't pan out that way.

The Redirect tech bit the dust in favor of Blood Moon.

Grim Lavamancer didn't make the cut. I removed him from my list because he was too unstable:
-He has no immediate impact
-He can be irrelevant to the matchup at hand by either:
a)having an irrelevant ability, or;
b)being unable to activate him
In the end, I took him out for the Ponders, and will never look back.

Riptide Laboratory was the most unreliable utility land. There were times where I definitely wish I had one, but overall, Wastelands are more pragmatic and put up better results. Yet, I still couldn't find the space to fit the 3 copies I wanted.

I replaced the 4th Snapcaster with the 3rd Spell Pierce. I am still unsure if it is the right call but I did so because I wanted to reduce my odds of drawing early Snaps or of drawing multiple target-less ones. Snapcaster has very little impact without multiple spells at his disposal. He is also not central to my game plan and strictly for value and versatility.

Venser out of the board has been unsatisfying for me as of late. Against aggro decks, he is usually too expensive for his impact on the board. Most creatures have a CiP value effect that I wouldn't want to trigger again. He is too expensive for any combo deck outside of SnT. His impact in control mirrors is often less than a Snapcaster. Without Karakas, Venser unperformed.

What about a second Jitte in the side? It's really, really good in some match-ups and now that our Jitte can't be Jitte'd by our opponents (who will never connect with theirs due to our obscene amounts of spot removal), I'd say that a second one could be worth a slot.

What do you guys reckon?

In UWR:
The only reason you'd want a second one is if the first gets destroyed. I've been testing various swords in the main. My hunch is that the correct one is Feast/Famine, unless your meta has a lot of xblade decks, in which case you want Light/Shadow.

Surgical Extraction doesn't really do anything against a Punishing Fire opponent worth his salt. This changes drastically if you have Wasteland, as you can then just Surgical the Groves. However, this falls apart if they e.g. play two groves before you manage to wasteland them. Blood Moon is worth looking at, but Punishing Fire decks with Veteran Explorer can easily remove it, and it's hit or miss whether the other ones can remove it as well with e.g. float mana, Abrupt Decay (or Force, or make you discard it).

Punishing Fire, plus the rise of goblins (Merfolk is unloseable), has encouraged using Sword of Fire and Ice as the third equipment, but it still has the Abrupt Decay problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malakai

The only reason you'd want a second one is if the first gets destroyed. I've been testing various swords in the main. My hunch is that the correct one is Feast/Famine, unless your meta has a lot of xblade decks, in which case you want Light/Shadow.

Surgical Extraction doesn't really do anything against a Punishing Fire opponent worth his salt. This changes drastically if you have Wasteland, as you can then just Surgical the Groves. However, this falls apart if they e.g. play two groves before you manage to wasteland them. Blood Moon is worth looking at, but Punishing Fire decks with Veteran Explorer can easily remove it, and it's hit or miss whether the other ones can remove it as well with e.g. float mana, Abrupt Decay (or Force, or make you discard it).

Punishing Fire, plus the rise of goblins (Merfolk is unloseable), has encouraged using Sword of Fire and Ice as the third equipment, but it still has the Abrupt Decay problem.

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Everything in legacy has the "Abrupt Decay problem." SoFI is worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

Everything in legacy has the "Abrupt Decay problem." SoFI is worth it.

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(Except Jace, Elspeth, Restoration Angel)

I only meant that SoFI doesn't solve my Punishing Fire problem, even if it does help.

Anyone thought about running young pyro in the uwr build? Be amazing at stalling the board and protecting jace like lingering souls. Also amazing at carrying jitte.

@Fired88

Dont like the idea. Why?
Becaue we don't Play a lot cantips like Ponder and Gitaxian Probe. We don't Play any daze and rarely a FoW. We can't Play a Cabal Therapy.
And we don't Need a 2/1 dork^^ Snapcaster and Stoneforge are a lot better. Grim too.

When you like the 1/1 Tokens you should Play the a lot better Lingering Soul and the normal Esperblade lists.

If vensor is not working out then drop it and go with SoFaF or SoFaI dependng on what you face most often and have trouble with. I would also do 3 spell snare and 2 spell pierce from what I read in your report. Adding the forth bolt wouldnt be bad either but I have no suggestion on what to cut. I would also tweak the mana base just a touch but not without further testing.

I took a tweaked list similar to Qweerios' to a random Wednesday night Legacy event locally, which we had 15 people! Wow I've never seen anything that big on a random weeknight. Anyway; it played very consistently and I felt like I had game against the decks I faced.

R1 - Pox - Jace is a hell of a card for monoblack Pox to deal with. Fateseal to pressure his Cursed Scroll while I try to grind out a creature to attack him with.
R2 - UW Stoneblade - the removal was clutch here. Also, Supreme Verdict out of the board FTW.
R3 - Junk - 7 removal ftw
R4 - Elves - 7 removal ftw

List I played:

4 SFM
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser Shaper Savant

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 StP
3 Lightning Bolt

3 Jace TMS
1 EE
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

SB:
2 Meddling Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 REB
1 EE
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of Feast & Famine
1 Detention Sphere
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wear/Tear

The basic mountain doesn't feel like it's needed, but having another staple source of mana might be. I could see it being replaced for another basic Island or a Volcanic Island to help ensure a decent amount of red sources.

His list caught my attention as well and I sleeved it up 2 days ago. Didn't have the chance to take it to a weekly yet but it's nice to hear it's performing. On the surface it still looks like it could be buried under the card advantage of Shardless BUG which is the main thorn for me. Did any of you guys test this list against BUG?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Higgs

His list caught my attention as well and I sleeved it up 2 days ago. Didn't have the chance to take it to a daily yet but it's nice to hear it's performing. On the surface it still looks like it could be buried under the card advantage of Shardless BUG which is the main thorn for me. Did any of you guys test this list against BUG?

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Liliana is still a problem, especially for this type of deck with low amount of creatures to be able to attack her. Coupled with Shardless Agent to spam the board, then yes I could see this as a problem matchup. Supreme Verdict could help out here, and maybe even some Geist of St Traft too. There's a lot of potential cards that could go in this matchup.

Shardless BUG is really a problem for UWx blade control decks. With red though, you have access to blood moon. BUG runs little to no countermagic, taps out every turn, and runs zero basics usually. Moon beats their deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thearchitect

shardless bug is really a problem for uwx blade control decks. With red though, you have access to blood moon. Bug runs little to no countermagic, taps out every turn, and runs zero basics usually. Moon beats their deck.

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qft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect

Shardless BUG is really a problem for UWx blade control decks. With red though, you have access to blood moon. BUG runs little to no countermagic, taps out every turn, and runs zero basics usually. Moon beats their deck.

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Guys, play Restoration Angel.

Re: Young Pyromancer
Unlike Pdingo, I have been testing the card (-1 Fire/Ice, -1 Lavamancer from the Columbus list, slightly different lands). It's a completely different card in this deck than it is in the grixis one. We're really just looking to get 1-2 tokens out of him, at which point we'll probably have bodies to carry our equipment for the rest of the game. He's been pretty effective so far at what I want him to do. That said, I haven't had enough testing to decide if he's worth the slot just yet.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

Guys, play Restoration Angel.

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I found Venser to be even more versatile to Resto in the 4cc slot. Being able to reset just about anything and everything is a huge boon for this deck. i've seen Venser do a ton of solid work in Joe Lossett's Miracle deck, so it seems fitting that this control deck also be able to utilize those same tricks.

I think the main reason you want to run red in this list, isn't Bolt or P.Blast, but blood moon. I would def. play some in the board.

Otherwise, I don't see the reason to a basic mountain. (Play another basic island, if no blood moon)

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Originally Posted by Malakai

Guys, play Restoration Angel.

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Resto is also not bad. Having a 3/4 flyer you can flash play without tapping out is really nice against a lot of decks. And sometimes you get to do cute things with it too.

But also play blood moon.

You can cast Blood Moon on turn 2 or even 1 with Sneak&Show, Imperial Painter etc. but we can't cast it earlier than turn 3. By then they can strip it away with discard. When I was playing esper that was my biggest problem against BUG. By the time I play my answers my hand turns to dust.

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect

Resto is also not bad. Having a 3/4 flyer you can flash play without tapping out is really nice against a lot of decks. And sometimes you get to do cute things with it too.

But also play blood moon.

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I don't like restoration angel, Its way too mana intensive for its intended purpose.

I would need at least 7 lands to make it work perfectly.

I think riptide is better in this scenario.

Venser is probably the best.

@Koby,

The basic Mountain has been, hands down, the most debated card in the deck. It was being contested by Riptide Laboratory or the 3rd Waste because it is considered a colorless source in most cases. The reason why I finally decided to include it in the main was mainly because of the application of Pyroblast vs. Wasteland decks. I didn't want to rely on Volcanics alone vs. RUG and Shardless BUG. Having a single source of red mana against DnT is also a big temptation for their Ports so they tend to focus on it more than they should (AKA: they try to keep us off Grim Lavamancer or respond Bolt to a mom activation). Overall, it did not disappoint me because in the end, it is still a very solid choice when building towards a Jace, regardless of if the land produces a 3rd blue or a 2nd white (superfluous).

Regarding the Dust Bowl in your list, I have never liked that card in practice. I would rather play a single Wasteland if it was my only out to nonbasics rather than a single Dust Bowl. You rarely (I personally never) get a second activation out of it, and the first one is very difficult to accomplish. I used to play a Dust Bowl in almost nearly all of my control decks until the point where I realized that I had not used it in over a year in any competitive scenario. However, I can recall numerous occasions where I wish I could destroy a nonbasic land without having to pay 4 mana to do so.

On the topic of Restoration Angel, I have been entertaining that thought for a few weeks now as well. I was initially comparing her to Geist, and rightly so as they have a lot in common. They are both unaffected by common removal like Bolt and Decay. Restoration has more synergy with the rest of our deck simply because she has Flash, and can hold her own against any other critter. Even when compared to Venser, the slot she mostly competes with, I think she has more potential as well. Bouncing permanents or spells can be devastating in very specific scenarios, but usually it feels like I am overpaying for a 2/2 flash body. Let's look at some of the practical applications of Restoration Angel in (my) Lightning Blade:

-Instant removal for most attacking creatures, and some that might even prove problematic. Creatures that come to mind include:

Nimble Mongoose
Delver of Secrets
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Phyrexian Revoker
Geist of Saint Traft


-Additional reach in response to Planeswalkers such as Liliana, Elspeth, and Jace (AKA: Why Bolt is so good in a control shell).
-Complements Clique with flying equipments
-Synergy with every existing creature
-One-time protection from creature removal, notably Abrupt Decay
-Casting Restoration Angel doesn't require you to tap mana during your main phase.
-Immunity from Decay and lone Bolts.

Why play red? The main reason to play red is definitely Bolt and REB, and not Blood Moon. Bolt, StP, and Snap is too much cheap and versatile removal for the format right now. Red Blasts are the best red spells in Legacy and have some very powerful applications against the top tier decks of the format. Those two red cards are essential to consistently retain control over the board until Jace hits the field and degeneracy begins. Bolts and REBs are cancerous while Blood Moon is merely the nail on the coffin.

-Additional reach in response to Planeswalkers such as Liliana, Elspeth, and Jace (AKA: Why Bolt is so good in a control shell). - With the red splash, planeswalkers are usually not a problem at all. I wouldn't worry too much about these cards.

-Casting Restoration Angel doesn't require you to tap mana during your main phase. - Am I missing something? How do you not need to tap?

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

-Additional reach in response to Planeswalkers such as Liliana, Elspeth, and Jace (AKA: Why Bolt is so good in a control shell). - With the red splash, planeswalkers are usually not a problem at all. I wouldn't worry too much about these cards.

-Casting Restoration Angel doesn't require you to tap mana during your main phase. - Am I missing something? How do you not need to tap?

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I certainly worry about a turn 2/3 Liliana bascked by Bolts or Abrupt Decay which snipe every attempt to attack her. I think Liliana is a legitimate threat against this deck in that she alone can pressure our hand size and any deployed creatures. Her ultimate is nasty too.

Resto Angel has flash, and can be cast at the end of our opponent's turn...

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Originally Posted by Koby

I certainly worry about a turn 2/3 Liliana bascked by Bolts or Abrupt Decay which snipe every attempt to attack her. I think Liliana is a legitimate threat against this deck in that she alone can pressure our hand size and any deployed creatures. Her ultimate is nasty too.

Resto Angel has flash, and can be cast at the end of our opponent's turn...

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Oh thats what he meant.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

I would need at least 7 lands to make it work perfectly.

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Restoration angel does not even need its blink ability to be playable. Its a 3/4 over 3cmc flyer that you don't have to tap out for. In the right build, one that only ever taps out mainphase for jace, its just what is needed. And yes in quiet rare situations you can save a clique from a decay, or blink a snapcaster and for value.

Not all UWx stoneblade decks are draw go decks but the Red splash lists that look like Queerios or Kobys are. Every card besides Jace, is an instant or does not requiring tapping out (mystic is usually not a turn 2 play for these builds).

That said, Venser is also not bad either (and really shines against combo) but he is not very useful after his ability. He dies to any bolts or opposing grisly bears. Resto is immune to bolt. It Can kill, not just bounce, a brainstorming jace, and profitably block a lot of the creatures mentioned earlier.

Well there's synergy with Karakas, but it's hard to rely on in this deck. I have very often used Jace -1 on each of the blue creatures in my list for added effect. Sometimes, Fateseal is not useful (vs fetch for instance), Brainstorm is locked without a shuffle effect, and we're at near parity on board. Times like these are were I want to -1 Jace and regain another shot with an EtB effect. Even protecting against a Liliana -2 is really good too!

Blade player: "I am having trouble with Liliana, Shardless BUG, and RUG."
Me: "I was able to fix all of those problems with Restoration Angel."
Blade player: "No, that card isn't as good as this other card in a vacuum."

Resto is interesting but the real question is how many to run. A one-of hardly seems redundant enough when compared to Venser, who can at the very least pitch to FoW and has a bounce with offensive uses as well

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Originally Posted by Koby

I certainly worry about a turn 2/3 Liliana bascked by Bolts or Abrupt Decay which snipe every attempt to attack her. I think Liliana is a legitimate threat against this deck in that she alone can pressure our hand size and any deployed creatures. Her ultimate is nasty too.

Resto Angel has flash, and can be cast at the end of our opponent's turn...

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I see why you have a bit of a problem with the planeswalkers. I just saw your list. I run the 3 grims MD so I never felt any pressure from any planeswalker, except maybe elspeth.

I liked having Lavamancers in the main as well. It made it really hard for opposing Planeswalkers to really stick around for long and of course, he just murders DRS.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

Blade player: "I am having trouble with Liliana, Shardless BUG, and RUG."
Me: "I was able to fix all of those problems with Restoration Angel."
Blade player: "No, that card isn't as good as this other card in a vacuum."

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That's a very narrow way to interpret the last few posts.

Given a limited amount of slots for a 4cc, you can fill those slots with:

Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Restoration Angel
Venser, Shaper Savant

If you have room for multiple, then go ahead and test them out.
I think there are at max 2 slots available with the recent drop of Blade lists. I prefer Venser because it's more versatile and can actually Remand spells. Restoration Angel is a solid defensive creature and I want to play it more. My reservation about it is that it has limited use and potentially only a one-shot (cast and does it effect, no rebuy with Karakas). Venser, on the other hand, has more potential synergies and overall objective usefulness. Both deal with Liliana, both can save our own creatures.