Miracle Control

Guys, there is a chance that SDT will get unbanned if the power vacuum moves in an abysmal direction.

I have always thought the predator-prey cycle is silly, and that Miracles was a fine fun police. Then again as a DnT player, I have always thought that DnT and Miracles existed on the same axes of the metagame clock but DnT is just a worse Miracles with a decent Miracles match up. My control fix will be satisfied with DnT but what will I do with staples within Miracles? Am considering UR Delver or Omni-Tell at this point.

Supposing you substituted 4 copies of Portent as a replacement for SDT in order to still play Terminus and Entreat, would Counterbalance still be worth playing at all? Or would the deck just drop that angle entirely in favor of more copies of Counterspell and whatnot? It seems like a singleton of CB might still be pretty powerful for the occasional blind flip and/or using various cantrips to manipulate the top card. CB also plays well with Predict, as at least you get to know what's on top to enable a Draw 2 for 2.

I guess Scroll Rack is another option, but I'm more iffy about that.

This deck probably just falls apart without having SDT to help stitch everything together, but I'm sure every Miracles player can recall plenty of games they won without resolving a single copy of SDT **OR** Counterbalance. Going forward, UWx Control likely needs to be playing stuff like Stoneforge Mystic and/or Standstill, but it's not like Jace, Snapcaster, and Swords to Plowshares etc. are suddenly bad cards. It seems like the archetype could still be fairly competitive with a bit of tweaking and clever substitutions.

CB is not playable anymore.

Moving forward I think having a full playset of Snapcasters in order to set up Terminus might bw adaquate.

Cards being re-unbanned in Legacy is almost impossible. I doubt it will ever happen.

Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Machinus

Cards being re-unbanned in Legacy is almost impossible. I doubt it will ever happen.

Sorry.

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The honesty is appreciated.

I may be accused of having on a tinfoil hat here, but does anyone else think it's odd that WOTC chooses now to ban out (not nerf mind you, but completely destroy) the one and only viable control deck AND make a blatant attempt at creating a control archetype in standard?

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Originally Posted by Misersoneof

I may be accused of having on a tinfoil hat here, but does anyone else think it's odd that WOTC chooses now to ban out (not nerf mind you, but completely destroy) the one and only viable control deck AND make a blatant attempt at creating a control archetype in standard?

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I think something's off also. They've shown they barely care about legacy by pretty much pulling all tournemant support. Yet they care enough to ban a crucial card in a bunch of decks. I feel like this is a move to try to get people to move to other formats.

Yikes!

Lucky for me they will probably never make a utility land based prison/LD deck with a graveyard engine and fast combo finish in Standard. Otherwise I better look out for a Tabernacle and Dark Depths ban!

Miracles players:

Although I never really enjoyed piloting Miracles, myself, I know that most of you really did. As an Elves player, I had lots of hard games against a variety of Miracles decks. I spent many hours preparing to play against an ever fluid array of Miracles decks and many hours tweaking my sideboard in anticipation of facing the latest miracles brews. I empathize with your disappointment because I know you invested a lot of time, energy, and personal innovation into cultivating Miracles just to suit your particular style. While I would have enjoyed a Terminus-free match-up, I suspect a Top-free one will be less satisfying for most. I know it's jarring to have such an abrupt stop to Top. You had a really good run. Enjoy the memories and best of luck finding a new deck to inspire you.

LoR

Well, at least they banned the card before I was able to follow through with my plan to get each piece of it in the original printing.

Still, I'm infuriated. This deck was my favorite and the one I've been playing the longest. I'd traded out of most other decks, though fortunately there is still another.

Ah well. Perhaps Maverick shall rise again, since Miracles is what killed it. That's a deck I can get behind.

So what is the deck we should look into if we have the 2 volcs/2 tundras necessary to play miracles? UWR Stoneblade w/ Standstill?

I'm going to test Portent. I cut the CBs, an EtA and a Terminus for 2 Snapcasters, 1 EE and 1 Council's Judgment. As long as it is still a playable tier 2 deck I will be extremely pleased.

might as well try mystic speculation :(

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Originally Posted by Misersoneof

I may be accused of having on a tinfoil hat here, but does anyone else think it's odd that WOTC chooses now to ban out (not nerf mind you, but completely destroy) the one and only viable control deck AND make a blatant attempt at creating a control archetype in standard?

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Honestly, it's insulting that they would use "slows down tournament play" as an excuse when they've pulled nearly all of their tournament support for Legacy. People play Legacy because they like the format, they aren't trying to build up their pro points, they've been playing/perfecting their archetype for years and they are happy to do so. Some Legacy players even take years to acquire their whole decks due to the cost of entry (deciding to double down on the reserved list is another cheap insult on WotC's part). In a format like this, WotC should be looking for every opportunity to unban cards (cough Survival). The fact that they pulled tournament support at the height of Legacy growth/play and then years later would decide to ban one of the format's staples is just horribly insulting (in a long line of insults) to the format.

I have to say that this cancels 90% of the reason not to play Chalice of the Void in any deck of mine and I suppose this is true for many other people.

Time for zoo? It has the colors to destroy any permanents and the creatures to apply pression.

One thing I think a lot of people are forgetting (or not realizing) is the vast number of decks that were invalidated because of the existence of miracles, including other control decks that simply weren't as powerful as miracles. Fast combo may be better without miracles, but miracles most certainly wasn't the only thing keeping them in check and they'll certainly be kept in check by other decks in the future. Legacy wasn't exactly a combo wasteland pre-miracles.

While I agree Terminus or Counterbalance was the problem and you have my condolences for your lost money and time investment, I can understand WotC's decision to kill the deck; after all, its existence killed a lot of decks and many of the viable decks have to bend over backwards vs miracles specifically to have a decent matchup post-board. I personally look forward to seeing what decks return and what new decks come up and I wish those of you who are left the best of luck.

They could have weakened the deck without simply destroying it; and they could have unbanned something as a tiny consolation. Instead we get this turd of a decision. It's times like these that I wonder why I even play.

I will genuinely miss playing against this deck :( as a food chain player, it was always an enjoyable and challenging match-up.

I will echo others and say that Terminus, not SDT, was the issue and needed a ban... a one mana instant speed wrath that gets around indestructible and regenerate? Totally busted card. Without that miracles could have carried on but there would have been a nice opening for Zoo to push into the meta.

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Originally Posted by gh0st_b1rd

Guys, there is a chance that SDT will get unbanned if the power vacuum moves in an abysmal direction.

I have always thought the predator-prey cycle is silly, and that Miracles was a fine fun police. Then again as a DnT player, I have always thought that DnT and Miracles existed on the same axes of the metagame clock but DnT is just a worse Miracles with a decent Miracles match up. My control fix will be satisfied with DnT but what will I do with staples within Miracles? Am considering UR Delver or Omni-Tell at this point.

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If I remember correctly no card banned after the start of the format ever got unbanned in legacy, top is 99% gone forever.

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Originally Posted by Noctalor

If I remember correctly no card banned after the start of the format ever got unbanned in legacy, top is 99% gone forever.

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This is true, but the only bans in legacy since 2004 (when it split from vintage) are:

Imperial Seal (when Portal became legal)
Flash
Time Vault (when they changed the errata)
Survival of the Fittest
Mental Misstep
Treasure Cruise
Dig Through Time
Sensei's Divining Top

If you ignore Imperial Seal and Time Vault (since they weren't being played when they were banned), that's only 6 cards, and I don't think there's anyone arguing that any of those really ought to be coming back (though I still blame Omnitell for ruining the "fair" decks I enjoyed building with Dig Through Time). Divining Top may be the only thing on the list that you can make a compelling argument for unbanning at some point.

Which is not to say it's coming back, I just find the history of legacy's banlist interesting and figured I'd share. I agree it's probably gone forever.