Because he has haste. The drawback is only small.
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Because he has haste. The drawback is only small.
Oh, that totally changes everything. I missed that.
The question regarding Goblin Guide is do we really need to get in 2 extra points?
I'm not really sure. One thing I know for certain if he is on the field and your opponent has a U up, then a brainstorm will most likely become 2/3 of an Ancestral Recall! Ponder on the play makes him less interesting as well. And it may not matter vs. top because the game has gone a few turns anyway and they do have to respond to you dropping dudes.
It seems like it would be great in a burn heavy build, and I lean towards goyf-sligh for this. I feel that zoo has a lot more of a late game especially with the more creature heavy builds and less burn that another land would matter.
I think the majority of us agree that Kird Ape is the weakest creature in most builds so the slot is up for grabs.
I don't know. I like how Kird Ape can trade blows with a 2/2 and walk away the victor. Ape can also eat small goblins and requires three goblins on the board for Incinerator. He can also handle the new Instigator.
Geopede might be a consideration. It's a twodropp that hits for 5 on each fetchland. Though Zoo doesn't care so much for playing land itself.
Meh, turn one fetch, turn two maybe fetch again, cast him, turn three a 1/1. :rolleyes: Or if you are lucky turn two play a non-fetch, turn three fetch, he gets +4/+4, turn four, 1/1. :eyebrow: Overall, not consistent enough and goes against the first rule of successful aggro: stable, consistent beatz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan
Note that i would be replacing Isamaru and a singleton FoD for him IF anything. So it's not like I'm cutting Ape, I'd be running him alongside Ape. He at least deserves some sort of testing.
Not sure if it's relevant, but Goblin Guide also has the potential to tell you whats on top for battling CB. Not that they couldn't top again. But post-board you can know if they have a 3 CC or not on top for KGrip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
or you know, they could float the land on top in anticipation of the goblin attacking. Good players attack first, then cast spells.
Hello,
I played zoo years ago and with all the new cards arround and after reading this thread, I'm eager to build me a new deck. Since this thread is full of "professionals" it would bee nice to get some help. To begin with here is the list I'm thinking of;
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
2x Horizon Canopy
3x Taiga
2x Plateau
2x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Grim Lavamancer
2x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Path to Exile
4x Lighting Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Chain Lightning
2x Sylvan Library
I suppose the list is quite standard so here are the questions/problems;
1. What would be a normal SB today? I would think that Gaddog Teeg and Pithing Needle should be included but what else? I understand that the SB mostly depends on the meta but are there any cards (expesialy new ones) that are autoincluded?
2. The BIG question! I don't have Goyfs yet, what would you people run in that spot if Goyfs would'nt be available? I was thinking of trying Quirion Dryad, would that be totally stupid?
3. Don't have Chain Lightning either, what would you play instead? Rift Bolt or PoP maybe...
The only Legacy decks I've playing the last couple of years are Enchantress and Angel stompy. I will obviously get me some Goyfs and Chains before taking the deck to any bigger tournaments but it would be nice to get some suggestions on what to play until so I can get the feeling of the deck.
Thank You all in advance!
Watchwolf isn't a bad two drop for now. I played Dryad in zoo in a tournament once a long time ago, so depending on the build It's probably playable, but not ideal. Without chains either I'd do a 2-2 split of PoP and either Rift Bolt or Fireblast in a list like yours.
For Sideboard, I like to play the following:
1x Duergar Hedgemage
3x Gaddock Teeg
1x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Volcanic Fallout
2x Krosan Grip
4x Pithing Needle
Though the canonist should probably be a 4th teeg and the fallouts should be pyroclasms. So that's a general idea, but you can adjust it for your own metagame.
Coming back to the game I whipped up a zoo deck for GenCon the day before the Legacy Champs using my old Goyf Sligh deck and adding white. I did alright, going 5-3-0 and now I'm hooked on the deck!
Here's my current list:
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
3x Taiga
2x Plateau
1x Savannah
2x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Forest
4x Wild Nacatl
3x Figure of Destiny
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Boggart Ram-Gang
2x Woolly Thoctar
4x Path to Exile
3x Harm's Way
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Price of Progress
3x Oblivion Ring
SB
2x Gaddock Teeg
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Krosan Grip
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Pyroclasm
First of all I have absolutely fallen in love with Harm's Way. So many fun plays! Kill tapped manlands, win goyf/creature wars, 2 to the face when they attack or I get blocked, kill grim lavamancer and bob with their own burn, etc, etc. Secondly Boggart Ram-Gang has been very successful for me. Wither is quality and people just do not consider haste when making decisions about board position. Thirdly I dropped the ape. He's the worst creature in the deck, which is a tragedy for a 2/3 for 1. So far I've had consistent turn one creatures, but I need more testing to see if I have too few. The two PoP are there for 43 land, which is played in my local meta, and as a "games over right now" card. I switch it to 2x Chain Lit depending on the meta.
Now the problems and my plea for suggestions: O-Ring is amazing and terrible, all at once. It has delt with shit that I could not have delt with main deck and won me games. So many pridemages, grips, etc running around that I feel it's just becoming too much of a liability. It hasn't fucked me yet, but the potential is there for getting two-for-one'd and losing and it always makes me nervous playing it. Secondly Woolly Thoctar has, if memory serves, never swung in the history of playing this deck. I haven't really had trouble playing him, but he just comes into play, looks big, then gets killed. I often win with him still in my hand, unplayed, so that I could use instants or had played a smaller creature x2. So being a removal magnet is the silver lining, I suppose, but there must be better dudes out there for the mana.
I've seen Knight of the Reliquary, but I just can't justify her ability in this deck. She can be big, I get it. On average a 4/4 for 3. Maybe even a 5/5. Having to tap her is counter productive to the aggressive nature of the deck and she just screams 'use a land tool-kit'. Maybe I'm over-thinking this and I should just consider her an easier to cast Woolly Thoctar that thins your deck when she doesn't attack and swings for 8 after 'geddon/dreams. hmm
So the Hatfields 1&2ed a tournament in NJ with Zoo w Thoctars instead of KotR. I would really like to know what they are thinking.
Hehe, for all the people (like me) who tried arguing for Thoctar over Knights, this is great news. I find Thoctar is a little more aggressive and less situational. Anyway, I'm not trying to re-open that debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
Do you have a source on that? Deck lists? I'm quite curious what removal they ran.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...951#post379951Quote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
there you go, buddy.
That Hatfield list looks very solid. That's exactly how I would run Zoo if I wasn't sold on Dark Confidant :wink:. Well... almost exactly, the 1-of Umezawa's Jitte seems a bit random. But apparently it worked.
Hehe, vielen dank! That shows you how much I'm paying attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaD
Perhaps another reason to not run KotR is bad synergy with Lavamancer. With no real "engine" to fuel the mancer, and KotR needing those lands, it's not very good synergy to have choose to either remove or keep lands in your grave.
Meh, I agree with you (regardless of their victories), running a singleton Jitte is useless/too random.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
I just noticed that list doesn't run any Tarmogoyfs. That amazes me, to say the least :wink:. I would have ran Tarmogoyfs too...
Indeed, this deck is built for speed speed speed. The only 2cc is QP, and perhaps because he has two great utilities for the deck. They also run Fireblast. My guess is this deck is meant to attack heavily and burn out the opponent. Tarmo, for all his beef, is a bit slow and everyone will admit, he's vanilla. With Nacatl and QP turn 2, you can swing for 4. On turn two, goyf is just being cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
Or, you know, maybe the Hatfields aren't completely stupid and maybe those lists have only 56 cards.