I've been playing three Tarfire main since Indy, where my friend started using it and suggested it to me. It's been amazing. I play 4x Gempalm, 3x Tarfire and 2x Stingscourger maindeck.
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I've been playing three Tarfire main since Indy, where my friend started using it and suggested it to me. It's been amazing. I play 4x Gempalm, 3x Tarfire and 2x Stingscourger maindeck.
Thing about gempalm is: it is near uncounterable, and it cantrips. You can cycle it if you need to draw a card, targetting one of your gobs, opting not to deal any damage. Plus Tribal may make Goyf Bigger, I would just run Lightning Bolt or Gempalm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin
You don't need a target to cycle gempalm.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedBaron
Dealing damage is optional but you need a legal target for it. You can always just cycle gempalm and opt not to deal any damage.
Tarfire is much faster than Gempalm. Gempalm is great mid/late game where you already have dudes in play but you can get blown out by removal in response to cycling it. If any of the creatures I listed live a turn they will make your life much worse. "It can be countered" and "it makes Goyf bigger" are terrible arguments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin
Tested my Tartfire version today against Zoo and Merfolk.
Its quite hard to loose against Zoo, and Merfolk just got even easier.
Tarfire makes Goyf bigger, but it really doesn't matter, if you kill their Lavamancer/Qasali/Nacatl(quite common).
Need to try against Maerick and other Stoneforge decks now, but looks promissing.
Did you come to any conclusions about your Therapy build? Which direction is looking stronger to you right now; Therapy, Tarfire, or Moxigator?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
For you these are terrible arguments but also keep in mind that this are true facts.A good goblin player knows how to timely use his gempalm thus you wont have a problem with those pesky creatures your telling. I rather have a top deck gemphalm midgame rather than a tarfire because of its CA.If tarfire was good enough we warchiefs would used it in the past long before but it was tested thats why it's in the BAD CARDS area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon Amarth
You are missing the point entirely. First off, metagames change. Certains cards become good and others fade out entirely. Currently, there are a critical mass of targets that Tarfire outright kills. These are cards that need to die before they lose summoning sickness. I will not list them again. Many of these creatures come down on the first or second turn. Gempalm has a very hard time killing anything on the second turn, especially if they can deal with your 1st turn Lackey or you are on the draw. Of course you would rather topdeck Gempalm midgame. At that point he's an uncounterable, cantripping 2 mana Fireball. Gempalm is not good early game. Tarfire is. That's what it is there for. It also does some work clearing random blockers that they try to block your Lackey with. This is problematic for your opponent because they used to be able to throw any dork to block, with Tarfire they have to have the removal spell unless they want to risk getting blown out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin
I really haven't tested Therapy more. Tarfire and Moxigator are things I can play test alone, and predict the outcome, something I'e been doing for quite a long time, and is quite accurate. Unfortunately, to test Therapy, I NEED a testing partner, and can only do it on weekends (some of them), so I was not able to test it against some common MUs like Zoo and Merfolk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talanos
My belief is that the Therapy one should be the strongest overall, if you have knowledge about the metagame your going to play, and the Tarfire one is the all around safest (I do run 2 Instigators on my build now). Moxigator is still viable, but it is way worse than others against Maverick decks, while was stronger against Team America.
Not only what Amon Amarth said, but lists running Tartfire still run Gempalms. Running one does not dismiss the use of the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin
Also: the "bad cards area" is a parameter, and change from time to time. When Instigator and Mogg Warmarchall were released, everyone thought they sucked, but playtesting in some metagames showed that they could be very good.
For me, Chrome Mox was a very bad card since it was released. Until one day, I played a tournament with it, and won it because of it. Things change.
hey guys i am curious to see what your goblin decks look like with picture
gobolord i couldnt find the link to see the pictures of your deck(the tournament report)
Can you show us your Flex-List that runs Instigator, Tarfire and Gempalm?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Wondering if you can have too much removal?
//Flex (12):
4x Gempalm
3x Tarfire
2x Stingscourger
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Sharpshooter
1x Tinkerer/Scrapper
The report is written on page 55.Quote:
Originally Posted by dethangel666
About Tarfire and the "Bad cards" section: I agree with ScatmanX. This list is a temporary one. It was mostly me alone who wrote it, thus it's not very objective. I will move Tarfire away from this list since it's inclusion is actually reasonable right now.
It once was a "bad card" in the sense of the list. This however was a time when Tarmogoyf was THE beast-to-beat. Tarfire was always considered worse than Lightning Bolt because it made Goyf grow and because it couldn't didn't kill him (both unlike L.Bolt). Nowadays Stoneforge Mystic seems to be the "new Tarmogoyf". That's what makes Tarfire "good" again.
(from: 3.3 Other aka. "The Flex-Slots")Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Has anyone tried Skred in a monored list with all snow mountains?
One mana, instant speed. It kills dorks early and its power grows late game to kill bigger dudes when you have more land.
No tribal synergy. Also we're playing wastelands and ports (most of us), so the number of snow-covered mountains is even in late game at about 4-5 maximum. I guess there is a gempalm the better draw, since its cycling ability is way better and one also has the same amount of gobbos online. Of course it's situational, but go ahead and test it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVicious
Well, it seems good, but Tarfire is a goblin. Tarfire hits something */2 on turn 1, so in a Moxigator type build, you can drop a diamond + lackey, EoT tarfire a Nacatl, utilizing all 3 mana on turn 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVicious
Kiki was added because Lackey/Instigator have more chance to connect, so I wanted another bomb.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBopper
Still need much more tuning. Just trying this to figure out if Tartfire is worth.
Is anyone still testing Mental Misstep?
It seems like people are always interested in Lighting Bolt and Cabal Therapy (even Skred, for Christ's sake), but no one seems too interested in MM. Why is this? MM does the same math to your Ringleader percentages that any other non-Gobbo card does, so I think it is deserving of the same consideration as Lightning Bolt and Therapy. Does anyone have any insight into playing Mental Misstep maindeck?
My observations thus far on Mental Misstep:
1. First and foremost, it doesn't win you the game. You still need a Lackey or Vial in your starting 7 to get your tempo boost. Having one of them is MUCH more important than having a Misstep.
2. A MM in your opening hand alongside a Lackey or Vial gives you a huge advantage by allowing many T1 interactions-
A) Protect your Lackey/Vial from removal/discard/MM. This has the added benefit of making land light hands much less vulnerable.
B) Gains tempo by stopping your opponent's T1 play. If you've played a Lackey and countered your opponent's Nacatl/Brainstorm/StP then you are way ahead of the game.
3. Your mana denial becomes better when backed up by MM. A Waste on a dual that prompts a Brainstorm from your opponent becomes more powerful because you can now prevent said opponent from digging for a replacement land. It also helps Port for the same reason. When they anticipate the Port and play 1cc instants in response to it, you now have an answer to that instant. And, or course, if you are limiting your opponent's manabase, then they are required to rely on their 1-drops more (for which you have a catch-all answer in MM).
4. MM makes your Ringleaders worse, but no worse than running Bolt, Therapy, etc. Since people are still open to running those, it seems they should be open to MM also.
5. During the mid-late game Misstep is a mediocre topdeck. In situations where you have a hand MM is entirely decent. In situations where the board is basically empty, your hand is gone, and you're swinging for 2 a turn, MM is infuriating.
Has anyone that's been playing with MM maindeck agree or disagree with my assessments?
Are there reasons why folks are opting not to play it? I think MM is a card that deserves much more consideration on this forum than it has received.
I can agree with you about MM at some point. I only played 2 Maindeck to lower the goblin count not too much. I also see it's advantages vs. fast decks and for controling the board.
One problem I had that MM didn't helped me as much as I thought it would. Especially when I drew some time in mid-game. It rocks on your opening hand but afterwards it looses its favor. I always drew it when I needed a goblin or anthing alse than a land or MM and if I had a good board position I usually didn't use it for the rest of the game.
Another thing is, that everyone has to deal with MM-that way people avoid it and play around. SFM, Goyf and Dark Confidant are cards that don't get into that spot. Even Big Zoo with Knights is becoming more popular. Goblins try to play around with Moxigator and stuff. And I rather have an answer to SFM in form of tarfire before I see that batterscull land.
What I'm trying to say is that I'm a supporter of MM in goblins but it didn't convince me all the way-so I will test tarfire in the current meta and will decide if it fits better/worse than MM.
Updated my B/R Goblin list and planning to play this at a fairly large tourney in Vestal this weekend.
[Core]-1 Piledriver (25)
[Flex] (13)
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Warren Weirding
2x Stingscourger
3x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
2x Mogg War Marshal
[Land] (22)
4x badland
4x bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port
6x Mountain
1x Swamp
SideBoard
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Cabal Therapy
3x Pyrokinesis
3x ReB
1x Warren Weirding
2x Perish
2x Tormod's Crypt
Gonna go for broke as I have been testing the cabal therapy plan all week and seem to be getting solid results. Ive haven't played in a vestal tourney in a while but told its a tourney where the spice brews do the best.
I tested Skred a bit and didn't really like it. That knight of the reliquary was always bigger than my number of mountains when it mattered, and it also isn't a goblin. Tarfire is looking better for now, not sure if we should run it as a 4-of tho.