[Deck] Dredge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus

I Top4ed a GPT, too with the same list. Adding lands weakens the list imo.

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I don't like to cut any of the other Cards either. I tried to cut 1 Ichorid and 1 Thug, but it did not change anything for me.

Went back to 15 Playsets now. I use 1 Ichorid and 1 Thug in another language to keep track of the "what if these two were lands scenario". Can't remember any Starting 7 where it would have mattered. But there where games I won with this Ichorid who is not a land :)

Edit: Anyone else sad, that this baby isn't cmc1?

Wild Guess
RR
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Wild Guess, discard a card.
Draw two cards.

Need something like this for cmc1 or Study 9-12 next expansion plz :D

Yeah, make it one less mana and discard two as a cost instead.

Won't ever happen. Thankfully.

@Quadlazer + Ashen Ghoul SB:
How are you guys dealing with RUG delver + Tormod?
I've been thinking about adding some TTribes in the sideboard in order to fight artifact-based hate, something like this:

-1 Land (is 15 really needed?)
-1 Ashen Ghoul
-1 Ancient Grudge

+ 3 Tireless Tribe

Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojeh

@Quadlazer + Ashen Ghoul SB:
How are you guys dealing with RUG delver + Tormod?
I've been thinking about adding some TTribes in the sideboard in order to fight artifact-based hate, something like this:

-1 Land (is 15 really needed?)
-1 Ashen Ghoul
-1 Ancient Grudge

+ 3 Tireless Tribe

Thoughts?

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If they drop an early Crypt, try to grind out. They tend to mulligan for it (a.k.a keeping slower hands).

If they begin aggresively with no hate, therapy to clear the path and win.

If they drop Delver + Crypt turn 1, you just cry.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

If they drop an early Crypt, try to grind out. They tend to mulligan for it (a.k.a keeping slower hands).

If they begin aggresively with no hate, therapy to clear the path and win.

If they drop Delver + Crypt turn 1, you just cry.

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That's what I usually do, but sometimes they can race me even without Delver... Goyf and Mongoose plus Crypt can be really dangerous. Also, Goyf is a huge blocker for my Ichorids. That's why I was trying to fit Tribes, but I don't know if they are worth the slots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojeh

@Quadlazer + Ashen Ghoul SB:
How are you guys dealing with RUG delver + Tormod?
I've been thinking about adding some TTribes in the sideboard in order to fight artifact-based hate, something like this:

-1 Land (is 15 really needed?)
-1 Ashen Ghoul
-1 Ancient Grudge

+ 3 Tireless Tribe

Thoughts?

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You want 11 land post-board, it's better to run 11 Dredgers and 9 Golden Lands MD and 3 Tireless Tribes, 3 Ashen Ghouls and 2 Golden Lands SB fwiw.

If you need a solid "grinder" build,

MD

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel

4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast

4 Breakthrough
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study

4 Putrid Imp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

3 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below

4 Narcomoeba
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return

SB
2 Tarnished Citadel
3 Tireless Tribe
3 Ashen Ghoul
4 Chain of Vapor
1 Dread Return
1 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (other than 4x Leyline of the Void, a Dread Return package that eliminates and locks the other players board position down is the best way to win the Dredge mirror match and still give the deck some more options vs Surgical Extraction).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojeh

@Quadlazer + Ashen Ghoul SB:
How are you guys dealing with RUG delver + Tormod?
I've been thinking about adding some TTribes in the sideboard in order to fight artifact-based hate, something like this:

-1 Land (is 15 really needed?)
-1 Ashen Ghoul
-1 Ancient Grudge

+ 3 Tireless Tribe

Thoughts?

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We let it happen.
You still win with activated Crypt.

Btw...
Went to a GPT with quadlaser + Ashen Ghoul board:

2:0 mono black Shadow (?)
1:2 BUG Still
2:0 Infect (?)
2:1 Esper Stoneblade
2:1 Storm
ID into Top 8

Top8:
2:0 Reanimator
Top4:
2:1 BUG Control
Finals:
1:2 Painter

No Byes for me -.-
But again 4-1-1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K1w1

We let it happen.
You still win with activated Crypt.

Btw...
Went to a GPT with quadlaser + Ashen Ghoul board:

2:0 mono black Shadow (?)
1:2 BUG Still
2:0 Infect (?)
2:1 Esper Stoneblade
2:1 Storm
ID into Top 8

Top8:
2:0 Reanimator
Top4:
2:1 BUG Control
Finals:
1:2 Painter

No Byes for me -.-
But again 4-1-1

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Seems like 4-1-1 is the ultimate tournament result for K1W1 :D

Geez, Quadlaser is so damn hawt. It's by far the best Dredge list I've played in a LED shell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Seems like 4-1-1 is the ultimate tournament result for K1W1 :D

Geez, Quadlaser is so damn hawt. It's by far the best Dredge list I've played in a LED shell.

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That's true. :laugh:

Even if i lose a game, i think it's the best list like you said.

As long as i can make it into Top 8 it's fine.

K1w1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K1w1

That's true. :laugh:

Even if i lose a game, i think it's the best list like you said.

As long as i can make it into Top 8 it's fine.

K1w1

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Out of curiosity, how did you board for reanimator? Also, do ya think -1 Thug +1 Darkblast is reasonable insurance? I've been relying on DR less and less it seems, so I may be testing this for Seattle.

GZ on the finish though, keep up the good work :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K1w1

We let it happen.
You still win with activated Crypt.

Btw...
Went to a GPT with quadlaser + Ashen Ghoul board:

2:0 mono black Shadow (?)
1:2 BUG Still
2:0 Infect (?)
2:1 Esper Stoneblade
2:1 Storm
ID into Top 8

Top8:
2:0 Reanimator
Top4:
2:1 BUG Control
Finals:
1:2 Painter

No Byes for me -.-
But again 4-1-1

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Yeah, I've been testing Quadlazer and it can beat RUG Delver without Tribes, indeed.
I play -1 Ichorid +1 DR main, though. I like to diversify my threats, specially because I play only 2 Ashen Ghouls in my sideboard. Do you think it's a mistake playing 1 DR over the 4th Ichorid?
Congratz for your result =)


@Final Fortune: I really think the 3rd/4th Thug is better than the single Darkblast, unless you've seen a lot of peacekeepers, which we don't here in Brazil. I was playing a very similar list (-1 PImp +1 Thug) before I've turned back to Quadlazer, and I must say the second seems better, at least in my testings. I like having the 13th land in the MD, though... I just prefer the 12th dredger.

Against Reanimator:
+4 LotV
-1 Breakthrough
-1 Thug
-1 Ichorid
-1 Pimp

Like you said, only if we see more Peacekeeper it's worth playing +1 Darkblast -1 Thug.

And yes, i would cut anything else for the DR if i would play DR.
You can cut a Pimp, Thug, Breakthrough. Anyone from it.

And thx.

K1w1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojeh

Yeah, I've been testing Quadlazer and it can beat RUG Delver without Tribes, indeed.
I play -1 Ichorid +1 DR main, though. I like to diversify my threats, specially because I play only 2 Ashen Ghouls in my sideboard. Do you think it's a mistake playing 1 DR over the 4th Ichorid?
Congratz for your result =)


@Final Fortune: I really think the 3rd/4th Thug is better than the single Darkblast, unless you've seen a lot of peacekeepers, which we don't here in Brazil. I was playing a very similar list (-1 PImp +1 Thug) before I've turned back to Quadlazer, and I must say the second seems better, at least in my testings. I like having the 13th land in the MD, though... I just prefer the 12th dredger.

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Regarding Dread Return, Darkblast and the 9th Golden Land, one of the things that most Dredge players do not take into consideration when they build their MD is how it converges with their SB for games 2 and 3. With cards that are functionally a win condition, a Dredger and a mana source, "Quadlazer" can increase its SB space by diversifying redundant functions in its MD. By playing that Dread Return, Darkblast and 9th Golden Land, or by only playing 3 Ichorid and 11 Dredgers MD, my entire main deck is closer to the convergeance point of my actual post-board deck thru' the course of a match. You just don't want 4 Ichorid post-board vs Surgical Extraction or to lose SB space to more lands than necessary.

I think looking at Dark Blast as just a metagame card vs. Peacekeeper is a bit closed minded, despite dredging for less and not feeding Ichorid it does provide its own utility thru' the course of a match and doesn't leave you completely cold to the OP's SB if they do ever bring in a Peacekeeper. That said I obviously don't mind the 3rd Golgari Thug at all, I just personally don't want to have to lose a SB slot to deal with Peacekeeper myself and I see a lot of Sneak/Show and U/w Terminus in my Top 8's.

I'm pretty set on 9 Gold Lands and 11 Dredgers, the 1 slot in SB space matters a lot fwiw.

I just think cutting Pimp is wrong, I've tried cutting Pimp more than anyone I know and I always find I'm just adding 1 more slot to my SB for something cute in my MD.

@Final Fortune: I understand your choice for Darkblast, but in my metagame I believe Golgari Thug is just best. I really wanted the 9th gold land in my MD, I'll try the list with 11 dredgers.

@K1w1: I wouldn't cut Breakthrough/Dredger/PImp for the single DR, because in my point of view, it's inclusion (like Final Fortune said) is more dedicated to improve games 2 and 3, without wasting SB slots. I mean, the single DR seems better than the 4th Ichorid in most post-board games, but I don't wanna cut anything in my SB in order to fit it. Furthermore, 3 Ichorid is often enough to win games 1, and a DR can add another angle of attack, and also help in some corner cases, bringing a decent blocker.

So.. I played in a little tournament today, 5 rounds, 18 Players.
I decided in the very last moment to play the Quadlazer list, with a board consisting off:

2 Ashen Ghould
1 Memory's Journey
1 Dread Return
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nature's Claim
2 Chain of Vapor (an other last minute decision for 2 other Nature's Claim (thought there will be a few Show n Tell/Reanimator)
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Tarnished Citadel

Well well well..
Match 1 vs U/W/g Miracle Controll (without Entreat, green splash for.. I dont know, possible Krosan Grip?).
Anyway I thought he'd play his normal controll, without Terminus, thus I ran frontal into it (4 Ichorids and a few Zombies in play), still I manage to barely win (1 or 2 cards left in my library).
Game 2: I boarded in the Ghouls, Citadels, Grudge & Journey and manage to win with 1 Life point left (where he made a mistake in extracting my Ghoul which I couldnt even bring into play (single land was a City of Brass) instead of my single Ichorid, which was enough to kill him.
1-0

Match 2 vs Canadian
A friend of mine.. he wasn't pleased to play versus me (also he allready lost M1).
Anyway, my hand rocks and he has no chance game one.
G2: He mulls to 6, still doesnt find any hate, and Brainstorm, Fetch, Brainstorm reveals him 6 Lands..well..
2-0

Match 3 vs Canadian
I Mull to six since I had no land nor a dredger.
I Mull to 5 since I had no land nor a draw spell.
I keep a 5 consisting off 3 lands, study, 1 Imp. Study gets countered by FOW and I can't find another draw spell before his single Ooze enters the battefield (t2 or 3).
Game 2: He keeps a no lander with a crypt, but draws one.. I blow up his Crypt with my Ancient Grudge (nothing important in my graveyard). We play Draw & Go for a long time, I'm not getting something to discard or draw and when I finally do he can counter it.. I lose 15 life to my Tarnished Citadel and die.
In my last turn I had 6 life, he an active Ooze and 2 green sources, I dump play looting, activate LED, he exiled my dredgers and I did not find a dredger (otherwise I could have activated my coliseum and had a little chance for a comeback).
2-1

M4 vs TES
Game 1, I start, he dies.
Game 2: He starts, T1 kill, mayhe it was T2 I can't remember.
Game 3: I start, he dies.
3-1

M5 vs Dredge
He starts, Im dead on t1 (a list with Griselbrand, FKZ and Street Wraights)
I Keep a land consisting off: 2 Lands, Study, Leyline, Study, Imp, Seems okay.. well he had 1 Leyline and before I could get rid of it he played another. To be honest..I couldnt even get rid of the single on.. I got him to 2 with Imps, Thugs & Ichorid hardcasts (dealing myself a ton of damage..I even played an Troll hardcast for 5 damage to remove 3 Bridges (which wouldnt have mattered since he forgot the triggers a lot). Anyway..I lose.
3-2

Got 5 place, prices were for top 4. =/

So.. Well.. I dont know what to say.. I often had mana problems, so maybe I'm going back to 10 goldlands MD. Never missed the Dread Return for a target (Flayer), but I did not play versus Enchantress this time (if you don't remember..7 Enchantress in 52 man tournament). And the games I lost, I probably woulnd't have won with my other list aswell.
Next time I think I'm going to cut 1-2 PImp's for goldlands and see how it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Holly

So.. I played in a little tournament today, 5 rounds, 18 Players.
I decided in the very last moment to play the Quadlazer list, with a board consisting off:

2 Ashen Ghould
1 Memory's Journey
1 Dread Return
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nature's Claim
2 Chain of Vapor (an other last minute decision for 2 other Nature's Claim (thought there will be a few Show n Tell/Reanimator)
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Tarnished Citadel

Well well well..
Match 1 vs U/W/g Miracle Controll (without Entreat, green splash for.. I dont know, possible Krosan Grip?).
Anyway I thought he'd play his normal controll, without Terminus, thus I ran frontal into it (4 Ichorids and a few Zombies in play), still I manage to barely win (1 or 2 cards left in my library).
Game 2: I boarded in the Ghouls, Citadels, Grudge & Journey and manage to win with 1 Life point left (where he made a mistake in extracting my Ghoul which I couldnt even bring into play (single land was a City of Brass) instead of my single Ichorid, which was enough to kill him.
1-0

Match 2 vs Canadian
A friend of mine.. he wasn't pleased to play versus me (also he allready lost M1).
Anyway, my hand rocks and he has no chance game one.
G2: He mulls to 6, still doesnt find any hate, and Brainstorm, Fetch, Brainstorm reveals him 6 Lands..well..
2-0

Match 3 vs Canadian
I Mull to six since I had no land nor a dredger.
I Mull to 5 since I had no land nor a draw spell.
I keep a 5 consisting off 3 lands, study, 1 Imp. Study gets countered by FOW and I can't find another draw spell before his single Ooze enters the battefield (t2 or 3).
Game 2: He keeps a no lander with a crypt, but draws one.. I blow up his Crypt with my Ancient Grudge (nothing important in my graveyard). We play Draw & Go for a long time, I'm not getting something to discard or draw and when I finally do he can counter it.. I lose 15 life to my Tarnished Citadel and die.
In my last turn I had 6 life, he an active Ooze and 2 green sources, I dump play looting, activate LED, he exiled my dredgers and I did not find a dredger (otherwise I could have activated my coliseum and had a little chance for a comeback).
2-1

M4 vs TES
Game 1, I start, he dies.
Game 2: He starts, T1 kill, mayhe it was T2 I can't remember.
Game 3: I start, he dies.
3-1

M5 vs Dredge
He starts, Im dead on t1 (a list with Griselbrand, FKZ and Street Wraights)
I Keep a land consisting off: 2 Lands, Study, Leyline, Study, Imp, Seems okay.. well he had 1 Leyline and before I could get rid of it he played another. To be honest..I couldnt even get rid of the single on.. I got him to 2 with Imps, Thugs & Ichorid hardcasts (dealing myself a ton of damage..I even played an Troll hardcast for 5 damage to remove 3 Bridges (which wouldnt have mattered since he forgot the triggers a lot). Anyway..I lose.
3-2

Got 5 place, prices were for top 4. =/

So.. Well.. I dont know what to say.. I often had mana problems, so maybe I'm going back to 10 goldlands MD. Never missed the Dread Return for a target (Flayer), but I did not play versus Enchantress this time (if you don't remember..7 Enchantress in 52 man tournament). And the games I lost, I probably woulnd't have won with my other list aswell.
Next time I think I'm going to cut 1-2 PImp's for goldlands and see how it goes.

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I just recommend 3 Ashen Ghouls and 3 Lands in the board. ( 2 Paradise, 1 citadel )
And i also think you should test the list more. I did the same mistake. Everytime it didn't work for me, i just had the feeling to change the deck. And that was a mistake. Play the list at some tourneys, maybe bigger events and you learn to understand it more. ( Note, that i don't wanna say, that you don't know how to play the deck )

Btw, who of you is in Ghent? Maybe we can discuss some things.

K1w1

Just came in 1st and won the Maryland event. Report can be found here!

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Originally Posted by Hollywood

Just came in 1st and won the Maryland event. Report can be found here!

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Very nice report and congratz on the finish!


Your new list looks very strong. I told you to run 4 Breakthrough ^^.
Now you're actually at 58 cards the list I'm playing since March. I only have the 10th Gold land over the 3rd PImp main and I have the 4th Thug over Journey (which was a metagame tech for you I suppose).

Did you feel comfortable with only one DR for 2 targets in your 75? I have the 2nd DR in the sideboard. The rest of my board looks very similar to yours, though.

@Hollywood: Congratz, in the first place. Now if you don't mind, I would like to ask you some questions:

I understand the utility of the single maindecked Journey, but why do you believe it's better than any other option for that slot (12th dredger, 4th PImp or even 14th land)? Do you think the other options aren't necessary in the main deck?

How was the split of Chain and Claims?

How was Tireless Tribes?

You mentioned the inclusion of Ashen Ghoul against Cage, why is that exactly? o.0

Thank you in advance =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K1w1

I just recommend 3 Ashen Ghouls and 3 Lands in the board. ( 2 Paradise, 1 citadel )
And i also think you should test the list more. I did the same mistake. Everytime it didn't work for me, i just had the feeling to change the deck. And that was a mistake. Play the list at some tourneys, maybe bigger events and you learn to understand it more. ( Note, that i don't wanna say, that you don't know how to play the deck )

Btw, who of you is in Ghent? Maybe we can discuss some things.

K1w1

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Well you would be right if you'd say that I don't know how to properly play the deck, I'm still learning ;)
Anyway you're right I have to test more with the list before I change things. I only had 2 Ghouls for the tournament, thus I packed the Journey as another method versus Extraction.
I'm still very unsure when it comes to boarding and missboard quite a lot.


Not going to be in Ghent, I'd like to but dunno.. 450km to play Magic is a lot..