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Looks solid. But I wouldn't board out Bayou because of Wasteland and the fact that Deathblade is a slow deck where you can assamble the cards you need for a kill over some turns without getting raced. I want/like some land drops against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfinbird
Another question about sideboarding against deathbade: chains or decays? Maybe a mix?
Chains cost one mana less (this isn't too relevant in this MU) and can be used as a storm generator.
Abrupt decay cant be countered and kills the target, stopping their clock and giving us some extra turns.
I can't make a decision right now, what do you think about it?
I would board in the chains. They usually don't have so much counters, and you can pay a flusterstorm if you chain in mid or late game. Also, you got discard to get rid of them. I would board in Massacre rather than Decay, since it kills everything they may have on the board but Batterskull, so you can free yourself from pressure if it gets too painful. This makes AN a little bit worse, but maybe just a copy or two of Massacre could be good. You still can use it as a draw X at the end of their turn. Anyway, don't worry for the Deathblade match-up, I think it is good, you almost always win game 1, and their board is not enough to stop us game 2 and 3. Also they don't have a fast fast race. It could be considerable, but nothing to worry about in my opinion.
Another thing I would like to discuss with you guys: I saw some Miracles lists running a copy or two of Izzet Staticaster in the board. Do you think is it still convenient to board in Pyromancers? I think yes, because we can always shuffle away our Pyro if we see it, making it a dead card in their hand. Or discard it. Or also Decay it in response to the activation, in order to save the Pyromancer or the tokens. Also, they could not board it at all if they don't expect pyromancer in game 2. What do you guys think?
Definitely Chains and no Decays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfinbird
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
I am currently thinking of picking up this deck. What do you guys think of the following list? I like the fact that TES has options for any situation because of Burning Wish. But, I also like the fact that ANT can play the grindier/"long" game. Burning Wish allows you to never to lose to a) funky stuff g1 or b) not side-boarding enough or the required anti-hate.
Artifacts (8)
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Sorceries (28)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
3x Burning Wish
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Past in Flames
Instants (9)
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
1x Ad Nauseam
Lands (15)
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Underground Sea
1x Badlands
1x Volcanic Island
2x Island
1x Swamp
Sideboard (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapors
1x Tropical Island
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Void Snare
1x Duress
1x Grim Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Massacre
Thoughts, comments or suggestions on this list? I don't mind being a little bit slower as long as I have options and have the tools to get out of sticky situations.
Chaam,Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaam
Running Burning Wish in non-TES storm is a respectable strategy, but it is currently unpopular due to the red mana requirements (BW -> Past in Flames requires access to double red). Normally, this variant is called "TNT," but I believe the TNT thread was merged with the ANT thread, so there is no dedicated place to discuss it. There was a small amount of discussion about using it as a sideboard card to beat Surgical Extraction effects, but this was also largely unpopular.
Mana Base
I think your list might need one additional land. I'd like to note that you're running fewer lands than most ANT lists, but run costlier cards (Burning Wish) with harsher mana requirements. You also have slightly less library manipulation.
In addition, I'd also consider adding / converting one land to Badlands.
Because some of your best wish targets are red cards, you'll find having access to two red sources in a game comes up more frequently than you'd need. With just Volcanic Island, you'll be reliant on Lotus Petal giving you a red mana against Wasteland decks.
Lastly, it smoothes out Island + Fetch Draws.
Of course, if you switch to running a Badlands, you must also swap Flooded Strand for Scalding Tarn.
Infernal Tutor in the board
A consequence of placing an Infernal Tutor in the board is you have access to one fewer maindeck, which is a tremendous cost.
Most TNT players use Grim Tutor the board-tutor slot so they can run 4x Infernal Tutor maindeck.
The 4th Burning Wish
You really don't want to see Burning Wish as much as a TES player. TES players, with their access to Rite of Flame and Chrome Mox can storm out tons of goblins turn 1, which is much harder for you to do.
In contrast, you want to draw one Infernal Tutor every game. I'd swap the 4th Infernal Tutor with the Burning Wish here.
Other than the Infernal Tutor, I like your sideboard a lot. It's noteworthy that you don't have an artifact removal in the board to stop Chalice for 1, but I think you made the correct call on that.
Burning Wish in General
Which matchups does your variant improve, and which does it hurt?
Does Burning Wish play well against Delver? When I play (non-TES) Storm with Burning Wish, I usually hate drawing it for tempo reasons.
Does Burning Wish add anything to the Miracles matchup? I think that innovation in Storm lists should be targeted at either those two decks, or being more robust against Chalice for 1. From what I can tell Burning Wish doesn't speed up the deck. However, it is plausible that it improves one of those matchups (or say, matchups with Hymn to Tourach).
Miracles will always board in Izzet StaticasterQuote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
You can expect them to always sideboard Izzet Staticaster if they have it and understand their deck. I'd also expect them to keep it in game 3, even if you never play a creature game 2, and they'll always board it in the dark.
It's a more reliable answer to Xantid Swarm, Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer, and Empty the Warrens than Terminus. It also Pitches to Force of Will, which is a huge advantage over Terminus.
Against ANT, Miracles usually doesn't go to 0 sweepers after game 1, they usually go to ~2 effects. As Izzet is an upgrade over Terminus, you should always expect them to run it.
The sweepers that work against ANT usually work against Elves, so whatever card they run should be coming in against us. (e.g., if they run Engineered Explosives over Izzet, they'll board that in)
Even if they did board out all of their Terminii, they should have enough room to board it in as their 6th-8th sideboard card.
If they're on the maindeck Vendillion Clique + Karakas list, they'll want to board out Council's judgement, a jace, 2x Entreat, 4x Terminus, which is already 8 cards. They typically only have 6 cards to bring in, 2x RIP, 1-2 REB, 2 Flusterstorms, meaning they have plenty of room for Izzet+1 Terminus.
Regarding Saving Pyro/ Tokens
Unfortunately, you'll always be saving the "wrong creatures" if you use Abrupt Decay to save one batch.
You'll be casting Abrupt Decay before your opponent activates Izzet Staticaster, meaning he'll have knowledge that he's about to lose his Staticaster before he makes his decision as to which type of creature to kill. This is because they'll cast it during your combat step so they can use it to block Pyromancer and then kill the tokens. The only conceivable reason to cast it mainphase is to play around Cabal Therapy or Abrupt Decay, which seems really unlikely.
Of course, the ability to do this is still relevant (e.g., if you attack with 3 tokens and a Pyro, you're guaranteed two damage, making your mini-Tendrils that much easier).
I'd expect the card to become more popular, as it is incredible in the Elves matchup, which appears to more relevant lately.
I second everything Ghiwo and CabalTherapy posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfinbird
I'd like to add that Abrupt Decay in Storm is weak against Wasteland decks. Casting it on turn 2 is a bit of disaster. If you played Underground Sea and fetch Tropical Island, they'll Wasteland your Underground Sea, which can be very tough. Thankfully they can't capitalize on manascrewing you the way Delver can (Stifle, Wasteland), but the matchup is so unfavorable for them that they should always Waste you rather than develop their board on the off chance it wins them the game.
Playing Abrupt Decay against a Meddling Mage is fine, but it's poor against SFM - I'd rather just kill my opponent than answer it. In those cases, I'd rather just draw a random card.
Deathblade is one of Storm's best matchups. The deck is just too slow, has too few blue cards, and has lackluster hate. Meddling Mage / Stone Forge Mystic in a world of Counterbalances / Delvers is pretty timid.
I'm not sure why, but a lot of Deathblade players play Surgical Extraction, so keep that in mind.
I wanted to touch on this topic, as I've been testing it on my stream for the last couple days. My current list runs 14 lands, and sides in 2 green lands to go up to 16 in slow matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
My boarding plan looked like this:
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Tendrils of Agony
+1 Tropical Island
+1 Bayou
-4 Lion's Eye Diamond
-2 Cabal Therapy
-1 Ad Nauseam
Some thoughts on this:
* This plan tore right into stoneblade decks. I played against Stoneblade and Esperblade this week, won game 1 off the natural advantage in game 1, and they just bit it game 2, easy 2-0 both times. Lilliana and Surgical Extraction from Esperblade likely makes this plan worse, but overall this plan easily beats their counters as all you have to do is hit Flusterstorm and Meddling Mage typically hits Tutor, which you can ignore.
*I think I've been miss-boarding by taking Ad Nauseam out, I definitely missed it today even though I'd theoretically loath to lose all the extra life.
*IDK how deep to go on this plan, I have 3 Decay, 2 Tendrils, but adding more just seems so narrow for my board. Saw's example has 8 cards coming in for, what, 2 matchups? How would I have a balanced board in that case? Maybe something like this:
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Tendrils of Agony
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Flusterstorm
1 Empty the Warrens/Xantid Swarm/Flusterstorm
And then I'd just run 15, maybe 16 lands, perhaps some number of mained Tops/Grim Tutors, idk. Any ideas?
*This plan feels very awkward to play against Miracles, actually. Jace can ult in your face while you try and build to lethal Tendrils, Batterskull is incredibly good against you, and having to shoot down Counterbalance or fight stuff like Batterskull and the occasional hate bear makes it really hard to build to 10. It might be because I wasn't running the Ad Nauseam, but it did just seem very awkward, especially when your hand is heavy on lands or discard; you can't mulligan and all that discard and land-dropping just sets you back about as much as it helps. Miracles just gets better every turn they get to do stuff, so it almost feels like this plan doesn't work that well, Pithing Needle might be good here to hit Jace/SFM and Top while you try to set up.
I'll continue to tinker with this as time goes on, just some thoughts I had, if Sawatarix or anyone else has some input, I'd appreciate it.
Regarding TNT builds, I'd also been interested in tinkering with it. I ran into some of the same problems mentioned, though. It's hard to get double red for Wish -> EtW/PiF and Ill-Gotten Gains is sadly too out-dated to act as the SB engine it once was. Ad Nauseam is also strained, especially in the build posted that mains EtW and Tendrils, I would only main the latter, imo. I can't help but wonder if it would be better to just try something line 2 Grim Tutor if you really wanted a lot of business spells, Wilson Hunter's invitational deck featured that, though he ran mained EtW and sided Ad Nauseam. It might be better the other way around at this point.
Hi guys! Today i've attended at a 80 people tournament and i've ended up a 4-2-1, losing the first match against Team america and the last one against the mirror, where my opponent simply had more luck than me. I drawed with miracles after a terrible g3.
I won against monoblack, esper blade, ur delver and gwb zenith.
I'm very concerned about the Team America MU. Unless i'm lucky, i feel completely unable to beat them, i'm losing to them every month (the catalan league is 1 tournament every month!).
The next three weeks i'm going to try all the silly ideas that i have. By mow i've thought about talrand, but also playing 4 empty the warrens in the sideboard could be good and also devastating vs miracles.
Other ideas? Opinions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garritano
So, would you still board the pyromancers? I would, it is a 1/2-of that they have to search, if we sneak in an early pyromancer we can take the extra life we need to activate natural tendrils or maybe direct their cantrips into the staticaster instead of more contrast. What do you think about that? Would you prefer the Divining Tops against Miracles, like Carsten Kotter does?
Couple of extra notes regarding TNT:
1) One of the biggest reasons that TES plays the IT in the board is so that you can grab AN off of only a wish in hand. This obviously requires quite a lot of mana and a deck that plays rites and chrome moxes can reach that threshold much faster than a deck like ANT/TNT.
2) Another thing TES has going for it is despite playing more 2 mana tutors, they are still the better ad nauseam deck, however several parts of your build detract from that.
EDIT: Having gone back and re-looked at your post after writing this I see that you have already edited your post since I read it last, and I like the changes. I still think that TNT is just weaker because of worse ad nauseams, less cantrips, a weaker manabase, and several lost sb slots, all just to gain an extra few outs in a couple of corner case scenarios.
I'd say this is debatable. Cabal Ritual can net loads more mana than a Rite of Flame would, and spending cards on Chrome Mox means, per card, youre not netting as much as even Rite of Flame. For the purposes of actually getting the Ad Nauseam and casting it, I think TNT and Cabal Rituals can be the better initial setup, whereas TES's Chrome Moxen and Rite of Flame are better to reveal when actual resolving the Ad Nauseam. The line of Wish > Infernal/Grim Tutor > Ad Nauseam is probably better served by Cabal Ritual as you only need 1 red for Wish, unlike PiF/EtW that would be better served by Rite of Flame because of the double red. If you're looking at the ability to chain a Wish into Ad Nauseam, I'd say a TNT build can be just as well equipped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tav
Yes, TES is the best Ad Nauseam deck, but TNT has better PiF ability with 4 IT and PiF in the main deck as well as Cabal Ritual having better synergy with PiF compared to Rite of Flame or Chrome Mox. TNT can play a better mid-range/long-range game with more lands and higher impact rituals compared to Chrome Mox or Rite of Flame. Further, 4 IT/3 BW main with Grim in the side allows you to consistently pull out more early game combos attempts between having PiF and Ad Nauseam and you have more effective options once you hit threshold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tav
Saying TNT is weaker than TES because it underperforms at the one thing TES is designed to be good at seems like poor evaluation of a deck. with 4 IT and PiF main deck you have a generally high expected value of having some sort of combo attempt. further, burning wish does more than provides outs in a couple of corner cases. needing a business spell isnt a corner case, neither is answering a permanent or hatebear. Void Snare and EtW arent "lost slots" because you want to answer permanents and combo fast against tempo/hatebears anyway, this just stops you from having to guess on what to side in. Further, TNT can be more stable and grindy than TES, improving control matchups; yet still combo with speed and versatility so cards like Eidolon or Leyline dont stop you cold. I think TNT might be just the right deck for the MTGO meta, for example, where the top decks are Burn, Elves, BUG control and Miracles; 2 slow counter decks and 2 fast creature decks being pillars of the meta, along with all the other crazy stuff you can run into on MTGO, means it can pay to be balanced and versatile. High threat density and versatility certainly seems better than Preordain, imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tav
Sensei's Divining Top Against MiraclesQuote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
Sensei's Divining Top is so good, that I think the decision to board it in should be made irrespective of your decision to board in creatures, regardless if you're boarding Young Pyromancers. I suppose an exception would be made if play a list without Abrupt Decay (which is plausible, but pretty rare in ANT).
I have played extensively with SDT against Miracles and strongly suggest sideboarding it.
Having an uncounterable method of digging for Abrupt Decay, digging for fetchlands, and sculpting a Tendrils kill is superb.
An important consideration for the Miracles match is that they'll cast multiple Counterbalances. They run 4 SDT and 4-8 cantrips, so if Counterbalance is up they dig significantly faster than you, making it possible for them to dig their 2nd CB faster than your first AD. Your own SDT helps offset that.
Turn 1 Decision on the draw without Abrupt Decay in hand: SDT or Duress?
I think that SDT is so good that you'd actually consider playing it turn 1 on the draw over Duress. (this is means you're willing to allow Counterbalance to hit play). If they have FoW + Counterbalance + Blue card, they're FoWing either play. Similarly, they're Spell Piercing either card. However, if they're on Brainstorm + Counterbalance, turn 1 Duress misses the Counterbalance, and you'll probably lose your turn 2 play to a Counterbalance.
Furthermore, they should be boarding in 2 Flusterstorms, which can hit Duress but can't hit SDT.
Comparing SDT vs Duress on turn 1:
Both Situations Equal
-CB + FoW + extra blue card
-CB + Spell Pierce
Favors Duress
-CB and no one mana spells / FoW
Favors SDT
-CB + Brainstorm
-CB + Flusterstorm
Creatures Against Miracles
I really like the idea of boarding in 1-2 creatures in theory.
I personally haven't tried Young Pyromancer yet as ANT vs Miracles, and have only tested Xantid Swarm and Dark Confidant. I greatly prefer Dark Confidant, but Xantid Swarm plays very well against Show-and-Tell variants and is probably the single-best card to board against them, so the choice between the two is meta dependent. I realize that many of the best ANT players use 3x Young Pyromancers and have written extensively about it, but Dark Confidant fits very well with my play style.
It facilitates the natural tendrils plan both by swinging for 2 damage, and by simply digging you into your Abrupt Decays / keeping you on 7 cards. I also run an unusual list in that I have access to 4x SDT, as I'm a recovering Doomsday player.
However, I have played against Young Pyromancer as Miracles vs ANT, and can say the card is pretty scary. I have lost games to Young Pyro while I had SDT + CB lock in play. The strategy is so powerful that the 3x Young Pyro plan might work despite your opponent knowing about it, and my comments regarding Izzet Staticaster being an auto-sideboard against ANT don't really change how good it is. I really can't say whether it's superior to the creatureless "grinding station" plan (which also seems quite good).
Izzet Staticaster doesn't dramatically change the landscape of Young Pyro's playability, as they're already running 2x Sweepers against you regardless if they run Izzet Staticaster...it's just Izzet is an upgrade that helps them mulligan less often.
Thanks a lot, your experience, your precise replies, and your tips are really of huge importance for me, since I am preparing for a 300+ people tournament on saturday here in Italy. So, against Miracles would you board in a second top, supposing I already have one maindeck? The second post side would also improve the Team America match-up. I would like to abuse of your patience a little bit more :tongue: How would you board against Team America supposing I am running a classic list with 7 discard, a top and 2 preordains? Is adding a top post board enough, as long as our mainboard is already good at fighting that deck? Or maybe going more narrow with 2 divert or 2 flusterstorms would be worth it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garritano
Thanks a lot, you're helping me, and us in general, really a lot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
I've played the TNT version of storm for an extended period of time about a year ago. Since then I've been on wishless-ant while occasionally reverting back to running Burning Wish but every time regretting it.
I think a detractor for Burning Wish is that it feels like it slows the deck down while also increasing the number of awkward "rainbow" hands. Not running Rite of Flame also can make it awkward going off as has been mentioned.
I think that for TNT to become the better build again the format needs to a) slow down and b) have more Gaddock Teeg.
I think the speed thing is especially relevant to stress. Playing with Burning Wish often (in TNT, not in TES) requires an extra turn. Either because you need an extra red mana or because you are using it to fetch a silver bullit in your board.
Against Elves? That's a negative value. We want haste here and don't need any silver bullit here.
Against burn? Honestly I think Burning Wish doesn't improve this match up at all. It's almost a red herring "having a game 1 out to Eidolon". Look, if Eidolon hits play game 1 you need to be having the Burning Wish in hand already for it to have a shot at being relevant. You can't be digging for it at 2dmg and 1 mana per cantrip. Let's say you have it (the wish) in hand when they resolve eidolon. If it's on turn 2 a realistic line for them have been dealing you 4 dmg with goblin guide. You might have fetched once which means you are at 15. Now you cast wish, drop to 13. Let's say you were on the play. In that case, as long as you've not missed a land drop, you will be able to cast Void Snare then. Dropping to 11. But then you need to be able win there and then or the burn player will just redeploy. I'd contend that that won't be possible very often. Instead you will pass the turn at 13 life. The burn player will take his 3rd turn, play his third land, attack you down to 9 (7) life and have 5 cards in hand. If they have Fireblast and any 3 dmg spell you are dead. They might just have 3 bolt/spike/chain spells to end it there. Price of Progress can also act as Fireblast if you've had to run out 2 non basics.
I play a lot (of ant) on mtgo. I'm always happy to face burn with wishless-ant. I feel it's a comfortable 60/40 matchup. Perhaps even better. They are significantly slower than us, goldfishing. Yes they now have 4 "oops I win" cards but no way to manipulate their draws or access to any tutor effects. And we have access to 4 therapy which I feel is more than enough to combat Eidolon. Losing to Eidolon on turn 2 is very frustrating but for the reasons mentioned I don't think it warrants running wishes.
I also don't see how Burning Wish significantly improves our matchup against miracles or delver decks. Not saying it makes those matchups worse (delver matchup can be debated here as I'd argue TNT is more vulberable against their mana denial).
The only matchups where I'd say Burning Wish really pulls some weight is against Thalia.decks. Especially Maverick as it runs Gaddock Teeg. But maverick is non-existent and has been so for a long time now. Against death and taxes I'd probably prefer running wishes but I have to say I feel fine in this matchup with straight up ant. If I'm expecting a d&t heavy meta (which certainly is not the case on mtgo) I'll have a sideboard plan including severeal Dread of Night and Massacre.
With all of this said and done I still think TNT is a fine choice and is a potent deck. It has better late game and the ability to contort your way out of weird game one dead-ends such as facing a game 1 white leyline or the likes. And yeah, if for some reason Teeg makes a real comeback I'll revisit TNT.
I think you're oversimplifying Wish here, while you can use it to remove harmful permanents it also provides you with 3~4 extra cards to go off with. If a burn opponents is on the play and goes land > bolt/guide > go, your only chances are going off or having Therapy for Eidolon. With Wishes you can have extra shots to go off, Burn often can't race 12+ Goblins and it turns their Eidolon against them if they play it. The same holds true for Thalia, you have increased chances of going off and then you also can pull Snare/Massacre while you wait for pieces to come together. Maybe I'm just salty losing to Burn thrice this past week because they always had Eidolon before I could go off, and I'm just missing having earlier kills and outs to "oops, i win" cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
I also somewhat disagree with the idea the Wish makes you slower. In the scenario where you Wish for a bullet, like Massacre or the like, could you even go off with normal ANT? I think if you're in a condition where you NEED a bullet, youre probably not in a good place to go off and Wish allowing you to go off more slowly is probably "faster" than never being able to go off at all. I will agree that it makes colored mana awkward, though, especially TNT where the red card/chrome mox option is diminished, and thats somewhat an issue you can have with TES as well. I guess you can't quite have it all in a storm deck
Happy to help :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
Divert
I absolutely would advise against boarding Divert.
This card has never been good, and has gotten worse in the last three years.
BUG Delver runs anywhere from 0-4 Hymn to Tourach, and you might not know whether they have Hymns after game 1. There are almost zero other targets for Divert other than Force of Will, Thoughtseize, and once-in-a-while Spell Pierce, and in general you want Duress more than Divert against these cards. (Thoughtseize can be played turn 2 behind DRS)
A million things go wrong with running Divert, the foremost being your opponent Turn 1 plays a card that lets him look at your hand.
If that card is Thoughtseize and you're on the play, you can attempt to Divert the Thoughtseize, which is good but not a total blowout. They'll discard a creature and the game will continue on.
If they turn 1 Gitaxian Probe you, you're totally screwed, because they'll cast DRS, then wait till turn 2 to Thoughtseize you or turn 3 to Hymn you with the 2 mana backup.
Lastly, if they don't see your hand, Divert still gets Dazed in the first two turns (unless you're on the play and play a Lotus Petal).
Sadly, divert is just bad. If your opponent played ~8-12 Hymn effects or a combination of Hymns and Sinkholes, I'd possibly consider it, but right now I would absolutely not play it under any circumstances. It's awful in every non-Hymn matchup, and is probably worse than Duress in BUG Delver.
Remember, if you really want to nail Hymn to Tourach, you can actually sideboard in Inquisition of Koziliek or even your own Thoughtseize. Now, I don't recommend you do this, but it's WAY better than Divert, because you can also board those in against other decks (for instance, Inquisition is actually amazing against Burn, giving you another way to nail Eidolon).
Top Against Miracles
If you have any Tops in your board, bring them all in!
If you ran 4 in your 75, I'd board in play 4 every day of the week against Miracles.
You're going to be boarding a ton of cards here, so it's hard for me to give SB suggestions. I think the people in this thread aren't totally settled on the boarding plan here, which makes sense because Miracles is such a hard matchup. I personally like slowing the deck down, shaving 1 Therapy, and going the "grinding station" plan.
Despite this, I think +3 Young Pyromancer +3 Abrupt Decay +1 SDT, and possibly +1-2 Tendrils is correct. That is A LOT of cards, and not all people are comfortably dedicating so many slots to Miracles, so you'll have to decide how you want to select your board. I think some people have speculated that you should board out LEDs, but I don't know if that works. I'd consider cutting 1, but don't like cutting them all.
When playing Against Miracles, keep in mind that game 1 you can instant speed Ad Nauseum during their upkeep to break a Counterbalance lock if they're stuck on lands. This is because they lose mana either during your endstep or during your upkeep floating their card so that they don't draw it during their draw step. (DR, when they spin / draw with top, DR in response, if they do it again, Cabal Ritual-> Ad Nauseum)
Flusterstorm
This card is very good and helps in other matchups. I don't know if it's going to help BUG Delver much, but it certainly is a powerful card that you can bring in a bunch of different matchups. If you play Flusterstorm against BUG Delver, although you intend to use it to counter Hymn you are likely going to be countering Brainstorm with it. Against BUG Delver, I'm actually not sure if Flusterstorm is better than Duress. If you're already boarding in 1-2 SDT, I don't know what you board out to make room for Flusterstorm. It certainly is better than Duress on the draw against Hymn against a Hymn+Daze, but your deck is capable of LP + Duress turn 1. On the play, Duress just seems better than Flusterstorm in the BUG matchups (including Shardless).
At some point in the future I'll write a simulation to examine that scenario.
However, Flusterstorm is awesome in a ton of over than matchups.
It is an uncounterable way of countering Show and Tell and most of Reanimator's combo pieces, and because it nails Ponder / Brainstorm, it is always a good draw.
A card which counters Brainstorm, Hymn, and Show and Tell, and also happens to crush in the mirror is a serious card.
Putting two of these in your sideboard may actually be a very good idea, but if you do, do it with Show and Tell / Storm Combo in mind.
(Also, you're playing SDT, and Flusterstorm floated with Sensei's Divining Top is basically the hard lock against ANT)
Sideboarding against BUG Delver
Definitely bring in top, it is awesome in this matchup. I think if you could pick your number of Tops to play game2-3, it's actually 4.
After that, I'm unsure what to bring in. The matchup is definitely winnable, but it's very hard.
Top lets you recover from all of their cards other than Liliana, and even then you can still get lucky. Their deck is very fast, but not so fast that you won't have time to Top 4-5 times and sculpt your draw.
It even plays very well against Vendillion Clique, which they bring in after game 1. You sometimes end up in state where both players know each others' hands, which includes them with a V Clique and 0 counters. Here, you can do stuff like stack your top 3 with [Mana Source / Infernal Tutor or piF / random card], draw your mana, activate your LEDs, then top SDT and Storm them through Vendillion Clique.
If you sideboard your Tropical Island, bring it in. A lot of players in this thread sideboard Young Pyromancer here, but I don't have experience about that and can't comment on it. I dislike playing 2 mana cards against BUG Delver, because one of their ways of beating you is Daze + Wasteland + Stifle, and two mana spells play badly against that. Also, keep in mind that most BUG Delver boards run 2 Golgari Charm, which happens to crush Young Pyro. They might be bringing in those against you thinking they'll be killing Empty the Warrens and accidentally hate your Young Pyros along the way.
Other than Top, I can't comment much on what works against BUG Delver, although I can advise you against Carpet of Flowers. Although Carpet is normally pretty good against Delver, and is insane against blue-based control, it is weak against BUG Delver. They run DRS, Bayou, and fetchlands, so they let it resolve and let you get 1 mana per turn, which isn't that good. They also have access to Abrupt Decay, and lastly Carpet of Flowers opens you to Wasteland in a weird way, because you'll be fetching Tropical Island / Bayou and they'll waste your other land to lock you off of blue or black.
I tried a green plan against them (Swarm / Abrupt Decay), and I didn't like it. I think -1 Preordain +1 Top is fine (and my preferred choice), but I think bringing in Decay or Pyromancer is respectable.
Expect them to sideboard in 1 Null Rod against you, and possibly Grafdigger's Cage. Null Rod is particularly annoying because it nails Top, but thankfully they only run 1 and it hits play after turn 1 discard.
As an aside, your turn 1 play against BUG Delver is really hard because they could be on Stifle, Wasteland, Hymn, Spell Pierce, Daze, or Thoughtseize, and depending on what they drew your turn 1 play is really different. (Specifically, if you they have Hymn you must Duress them, if they don't you want to get SDT in play before they have counter magic up)
Because of this, you should go ahead and Gitaxian Probe turn 1 pretty much every game, especially if you have Duress + Top + Fetchland in hand.
Also, if they lead with turn 1 DRS off of a dual, it's sometimes correct for you to have no turn 1 play if you have a 3 land hand.
Lastly, although they run DRS, the games you do win will often be PiF victories.
Good luck in your tournament! I hope you get paired against Elves all the way to the Top 8.
The "man plan" is a respectable strategy against Miracles, but it's not devastating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfinbird
The only way for Miracles to have 0 sweepers against you is if they decide to run 4 Swords, their max number of Jaces, and some number of Entreats.
Most Miracles players side out ~1 Jace and both entreats here, and I think they'll split their removal between 2 swords and 2 sweepers, and adjust their removal suite after they see what creature you boarded in. (Xantid Swarm, Dark Confidant, Young Pyro, or Empty the Warrens)
As Miracles, it's actually hard to sideboard out all your removal against Storm, and most Miracles players actually bring in anti-Goblin token cards. In the past, that card was Engineered Explosives, but Izzet Staticaster may replace it because it's better against Elves.
Against BUG Delver, I suggest you sideboard Sensei's Divining Top. It's probably my favorite card to see in my opening hand against them. I wrote about it extensively in my previous post so I won't repeat it here, but I advise you board SDT against both BUG Delver and Miracles. (assuming you have access to Abrupt Decay. If you don't have Abrupt Decay run 4 Young Pyros or 4 Empty like you planned, it can still win against Miracles and even beat a CB lock).
Right now I should be in a plane to fly to the ovino. But because of familly issues i had to cancel my flight last minute. Good luck to the german stormers and all other stormer. Would have liked to know you all there but another time it will be. Will be training here hard under a watterfall to in 2 weeks travel to usa and play in the scg and the eternal weekend.
So headshots for everyone is what i wanna read on monday.