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Brainstorm might be ok, but, breakthrough and careful study are much better. The problem with brainstorm is that it doesn't get cards from your hand into your graveyard, so you would have to have putrid imp to make it work. Careful study even though it draws less cards is better than brainstorm due to its ability to allow u to discard.
Also, does anyone see any potential for Demigod of Revenge in Ichorid. It seems pretty good with dread return, although I don't know where one could put it.
Demigod of Revenge's ability only triggers when it is played from your hand (i.e. casted), hence it is not a good Dread Return target.
I'm completely ignorant of most things about the Ichorid deck. So could someone please explain what this DDD is given that it seems to be a very primary strategy.
Draw-Discard-Dredge. Instead of playing discard outlets like Putrid Imp, and risk getting them countered, you go to eight cards in hand and discard a dredger at EOT, which you proceed to dredge on your next turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
Actually I didn't follow the discussion really carefully so I'm not able to tell if I bring up something new.
I often read sage in the lists but since shadow moore has released River Kelpie fills it's slot much better. It gives you much more speed in a list with 4 therapy MD and the playset off ichorids like shown up here in on a legacy tournament in the Netherlands.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17189
I think the huge drawing power with sage over kelpie is that sage allowed you to discard the cards you draw. Which can be important with dredgers and what not. Though I do like the massive draw engine the kelpie can be, as well as the beauty that is persist.
Yes, except Kelpie has been discussed three or four times already and the idea has been tossed. Please go back a page or two to read the discussion, or we will keep going around in circles.
So, which is the better choice for sideboarding: Chalice of the Void, or Pithing Needle? Assume a fairly conventional rainbow build.
Chalice advantages:
Stops Crypt
Free to play, so it doesn't hamper speed.
Shuts down Engineered Explosives in most builds of Thresh.
Is a major pain for any deck with 0cc artifacts.
Possible to drop at 1 for Extirpate.
Disadvantages:
Takes a while to drop at 1, shuts down lots of your deck if you do.
Doesn't deal with a crypt on the table-or anything else, except in conjunction with the Chains.
Needle advantages:
-Stops Crypt in play
-Still cheap
-Can shut down other problem cards like Goblin Charbelcher, Sharpshooter, Fanatic.
Disadvantages:
Can't hit multiple things
Doesn't work against combo
hampers speed.
What do you think?
Play both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
On the draw, board in Needle. They're going to play Crypt on turn one if they have it. On the play, board in Chalice, so you can stop it preemptively.
That takes up too many spots in the sideboard. Between 4 Leyline, 4 Chain of Vapor, and 4 of one Crypt-stopper, that only leaves 3 slots-slots better served on Rays of Revelation and a Dread Return target.
Why in the world would you play 4x Chain of Vapor and Ray of Revelation?
Additional outs for opposing Leylines, Moats, Confinements and other stuff. The question is, why in the world would you play Leyline?
Leyline gives you a way to protects your Bridges and attack opposing graveyard decks.
I also never played Leylines, protection your own grave is more important then attacking the grave of the oppo (unless you play the mirror, but I think in most metagames that happens seldom).
Also, when an opponent removes some Bridges, you can still win.. 1 time my Bridges and Ichorids were both extirpated, and I still won with 3 moeba -> D Return -> Grave Troll. Its only a waste of your slots to board Leylines in, cause it makes you much slower, because you also want to board anything against their grave-hate. Boarding out 8 cards is really bad for your speed.
What you're missing here is that Bridge From Below is oftentimes critical to the aggro matchup, because it means that they can't actually weather your first wave. It's also really nice when somebody swords/halos/blocks plagues your ichorids. Leyline is mainly there to protect your graveyard by keeping Bridge from Below, which is the best card in the deck, in there.
You dont need to play both Needle and Chalice. Just play Needle, it stops Crypt on the draw while Chalice does not. Simple.
No its not that simple. Don't just barge into the thread and make an outstanding reason like that. You should always be on the play game three so dropping Chalice for 0 works fine. Dropping it in game two can still be good since it can stop mid-late game crypts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dont_Stop_Believin
Because Chalice hates on Belcher and TES as well as the 0 drops in Stax style decks it's most definitely the card to play. The perks to having Chalice@1 against Thresh and Extirpate are outlandish.
If your still playing Needles over Chalice you really need to sit back and rethink things for a while.
If your meta is infested with painters and Belcher and Survival then just maybe I'd go with Needle instead but but CotV should always get the spot by default..
I agree I have won many TES/belcher matches because of the COtV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
I may just be lucky but The last two times Ive seen TES in a tourney I dropped first turn chalice for 0, seconded turn chalice for one. :smile:
You already have an excellent Dread Return Target in the main in the form of Golgari-Grave Troll. He's usually a 10/10 or bigger (yes, he still dies to removal, but unless you're bringing it Akroma, Angel of Fury or SSS your Dread Return target would anyways).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
Freakish: The DR target is probably utility- something like Primus, Angel of Despair or Ancestor's Chosen.
Now, assuming that Chalice is the card to play, and that your board looks like
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Leyline
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Simic Sky Swallower/Akroma/Woodfall Primus/Ancestor's Chosen
2 Ray of Revelation
What do the sideboarding plans look like? Obviously, removing the combo versus decks that aren't combo, burn or prison is the first step, but what besides that? The way I see it, there are three options:
1: Board out some combination of Careful Studies, and Deep Analyses, and then finally LEDs. This leaves you with the consistiency of Imps, Breakthroughs, and most of your LEDs for discard outlets. On the other hand, your explosiveness, as well as your capacity to find your hate answers, is impaired.
2: Shave off the top: take out 1 Analysis, 1 Study, 1 Imp, 1 Ichorid, 1 Thug etc. This allows you to preserve a semblance of a balanced Combo/Aggro gameplan, but simultaneously weakens the consistiency of both plans.
3: Board out your Putrid Imps, some Thugs, and some Ichorids. This is the most explosive post-sideboard strategy, but it's heavily reliant on a nut opening hand, and has difficulty if the game goes long.
Thoughts?