[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by .:saturno:.

no one has tested restoration angel in nic-fit?
i'm testing 3 copy of this and i'm very happy.
this is the list that i'm testing

{snip}

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This has the same problem that Vandal's NO list has -- it doesn't have enough stuff for the "signature card." I've considered Resto Angel before as a possible variant, but it has a very serious problem of not having enough good critters to flicker, and at some point it looks like just a worse Pod list.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

True. It could be sideboard material.

I mean, Progenitus wins in 2 turns, where sometimes Grave Titan and Derranged Hermit are just useless in a stalled board.

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Nic Fit doesn't believe in the principle of a stalled board. If the board is stalled, you're playing vs a fair deck. If you're playing vs a fair deck, you'll break it open at some point. It might take a little longer, but it -will- happen. If you're in that circumstance, then a GT on defense is probably going to be better than a Progen on offense, because Progen doesn't have vigilance.

Also, NO and Pattern of Rebirth are both interesting cards that seem like they should have their own variants. It never seems to work out when people try them, though.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

True. It could be sideboard material.

I mean, Progenitus wins in 2 turns, where sometimes Grave Titan and Derranged Hermit are just useless in a stalled board.

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There shouldn't be a stalled board if you are playing the deck correctly. And if they have enough beaters for a 6/6 death touch and 2 2/2 tokens to have a stalled board, against just ONE progenitus they will be able to race you.

Every card in this deck should offer value. I think in order for Natural Order to do so, you would need to not only take advantage of it grabbing a creature, but also the sacrifice. Therefore I think you may want to go with persist and undying creatures like finks and geist. Maybe Natural Order would work better in an aggro/swarm version.

Missing out on local Legacy tonight due to illness =( I fucking hate being sick.

Anyway, that means I get to sit at a computer for awhile and type some thoughts.

Natural Order in Nic Fit just isn't that good. I've tried it and it's just worse than any other win-con. It takes up too many slots, leaves you with dead cards if you draw Proggy, is card disadvantage (which goes against what this deck tries to do) and we don't actually play that many green creatures so we won't always have one to sac reliably.

As far as the Shaman goes, that guy is fucking cool as hell, but I don't think he's very good here. He would be best in straight G/B and I currently am not going to be playing him. You almost never want to Zenith for him at 1 because an Explorer is almost always better when you want a 1 drop. He has to untap before we get any use out of him which makes him a liability. And let's be real, this deck has the best Scavenging Oozes in Magic with the abundace of green mana we have at our disposal. One shots a turn aren't really what we're looking for even if he does have a marginal upside. Just my initial thoughts on him.

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

As far as the Shaman goes, that guy is fucking cool as hell, but I don't think he's very good here. He would be best in straight G/B and I currently am not going to be playing him. You almost never want to Zenith for him at 1 because an Explorer is almost always better when you want a 1 drop. He has to untap before we get any use out of him which makes him a liability. And let's be real, this deck has the best Scavenging Oozes in Magic with the abundace of green mana we have at our disposal. One shots a turn aren't really what we're looking for even if he does have a marginal upside. Just my initial thoughts on him.

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Sorry you're sick. You and the Aes Sedai, eh? Something targeting Nic Fitters?

In addition to your thoughts on the Shaman, there's the fact that he's somewhat reliant on the opponent's game plan. If you don't have a turn one fetchland and neither does your opponent, then you don't get ramp after you spend a turn untapping. If your opponent is playing permanents instead of instants or sorceries, you're left to hit your own graveyard--and I am not interested in exiling my own Cabal Therapies and Pulses, thankyouverymuch. Same with creatures: I want mine in the graveyard, for the most part, to get back with Recurring Nightmare. I don't want to rely on my foe's game plan to get business out of a once-per-turn creature. Yes, he can do things (more or less) no matter what their plan is. Just not always the things you want. The Ooze is both more and less versatile, but the fact that it doesn't tap makes it amazing in comparison.

This post has been getting to big to fast for me to keep up. But I think I'm going to cut white from my deck completely and go straight GB Rector and Sun Titan has been doing wonders but just hasn't been enough lately. Plus the format is to much combo for them to be effective enough for me.

About the shaman, isn't Dryad Militant a lot better vs storm than him? ANT can't cabal ritual effectively or play Ill-Gotten gains plus high tide (if anyone plays it still) will have a greater chance of getting lands when they Time Spiral. Plus the militant allies more pressure.

I have a quick rules question for you folks. If I kill off an academy rector to go get a faith's fetters can the faith's fetters be put on something like Emrakul since it's not being cast?

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Originally Posted by AmishLuvah

I have a quick rules question for you folks. If I kill off an academy rector to go get a faith's fetters can the faith's fetters be put on something like Emrakul since it's not being cast?

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Short answer: yes.

Also Mongoose.

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Originally Posted by AmishLuvah

I have a quick rules question for you folks. If I kill off an academy rector to go get a faith's fetters can the faith's fetters be put on something like Emrakul since it's not being cast?

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Yes. Once the rector trigger resolves, they cannot respond to it as well.

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Originally Posted by AmishLuvah

I have a quick rules question for you folks. If I kill off an academy rector to go get a faith's fetters can the faith's fetters be put on something like Emrakul since it's not being cast?

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I've never had this come up in a game before, and I've always accepted the notion that you can put it onto a Hexproof creature. But looking over the comprehensive rules, I see this:

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303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.

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Can anyone explain why the last line is not applicable here? It seems to me that "other applicable effects" would mean hexproof prevents us from putting the aura on a creature with the ability.

Wait what? Rector allows the enchanting of Hexproof creatures? I understand how you can get an aura on Emrakul (because hes not Hexproof/Shroud), but I have never heard of enchanting a Mongoose before.

My guess is that as the aura enters the battlefield, it is targeting as a permanent, therefore it isn't a spell or an ability anymore. Shroud effects only grant protection from spells and abilities.

A little update on a small tourny with Scapewish very close to Arianrhod's list except that I played 2x Grave Titans :rolleyes:

M1 - Merfolk win 2-0
Nothing much to say here just that I rolled him g1 with a Huntermaster flipping like a bause! G2 bonfire of the damned got a epic 'you really play that card' comment from everyone.

M2 - Dredge lost 1-2
G1 I kept a slow hand after mulling to 6 and get rolled with a quick breakthrough
G2 @ Arianrhod - I LIVED THE DREAM! decked him out after deed stabilized the board and I wished for haunting echoes :cool:
G3 Stinking extirpates does not show up! Got therapied to oblivion, top decking w/o a top cannot be won with a couple of jellyfish and zombie beats in time

M3 - Merfolk win 2-0
M1 all over again, Angry Grave Titans and miracling bonfire like a total bause completely crushes em small fishies!

M4 - Nic Fit white win 2-0
G1 he dropped me to 4 while I topdecked scapeshift like a total bause!
G2 we trade creatures hit each other to below 10 while I miracled bonfire him for exact!

Had a great laugh and chat here :cool: finally another nic fit player in my meta
We didn't board out explorers, apparently ramping me kills him thanks to scapeshift

M5 - ANT ID
He is a old friend, happy as hell I do not play him :wink:

In top 8

M6 - U/W miracles
O GAWD I HATE THIS MATCHUP
Nothing resolves, even if they do it never mattered as I was too far from the game. Bonfire really sucked here, kept wishing they were maelstrom pulses!

I only won on the back of slow roll Valakuts and Grave Titan tokens in G2, thanks Arianrhod for that heads up!

Looking back I believe it is my lack of knowledge how to play against this matchup, ideas would be good on how to defeat this monster of a deck!

Lastly I would like to thank @Arianrhod for helping me complete my deck and giving useful pointers on how to sb etc! :smile:


Here is my list! Enjoy!


Creatures

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
2 Grave Titan

Sorcery

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Scapeshift

Artifact and Enchantment

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei Divining Top

Lands

4 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
3 Bayou
1 Stomping Ground
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

SB
3 REB
2 Extirpate
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Reanimate
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pulverize
1 Anarchy
1 Boiling Seas
1 Damnation
1 Memoricide


Thinking of which I will drop Anarchy and Pulverize for 2x Boil to shore up that annoying matchup which is called U/W MIRACLES!

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

Wait what? Rector allows the enchanting of Hexproof creatures? I understand how you can get an aura on Emrakul (because hes not Hexproof/Shroud), but I have never heard of enchanting a Mongoose before.

My guess is that as the aura enters the battlefield, it is targeting as a permanent, therefore it isn't a spell or an ability anymore. Shroud effects only grant protection from spells and abilities.

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I think it works the same way how Zur can "enchant" himself with auras even with him enchanted with shroud like Diplomatic Immunity with his triggered ability

What hurts us more? Iona, Proggy, or Emrakul?

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Originally Posted by fireiced

Thinking of which I will drop Anarchy and Pulverize for 2x Boil to shore up that annoying matchup which is called U/W MIRACLES!

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Tsunami would work better with the burning wish plan.

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Tsunami would work better with the burning wish plan.

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What cards do they run that give us trouble?

EDIT: versus UW Miracles that is?

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

Tsunami would work better with the burning wish plan.

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I got boiling seas for that! Could not find a tsunami at all!!!!

The idea is to crack up 3x island bombers, 1 wishable and 2 to board in and nuke at instant speed :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by fireiced

I would like to thank @Arianrhod for giving useful pointers on how to sb

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Share the knowledge with others! :smile:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

What cards do they run that give us trouble?

EDIT: versus UW Miracles that is?

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My problems with that deck are mostly fow, spell pierce, snapcaster fow, counterbalance.. so its hard to get anything resolved.

Other match I played I eventually died because of jace at turn gazzilion because all my goodies were on the bottom of my library and some bad luck, had no problems with entreat the angels, kederek leviathan helps allot;)

But with the new removal spell in RTR(forgot the name) it will be just another deck, for me counter balance is just nasty and I dont want to run a grip

And to awnser a previous question(I think iona because that can keep you for casting your solution) though its not as devastating if you dont have a direct awnser, then emraku is pretty bad.. it should not attack.
Anyways I dont think they are that terrible at all, they give allot of stress and you SHOULD have awnsers mainboard for those matchups

Btw Boil is pretty sick, also perhaps Boseiju, who Shelters All(GSZ/Intent/intuition/Scapeshift/bonfire/pulse((allot of use in every built)) / cavern of souls(human) though seeing other lists its a bit meh..

I need(want) to incorperate 4x meddling mage MB / so I have at least witness Meddling mage and explorer for Cavern of souls.. havent tried any yet though in my mind it seems viable..

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Originally Posted by fireiced

G2 bonfire of the damned got a epic 'you really play that card' comment from everyone.

M3 - Merfolk win 2-0
Angry Grave Titans and miracling bonfire like a total bause completely crushes em small fishies!

M4 - Nic Fit white win 2-0
G1 he dropped me to 4 while I topdecked scapeshift like a total bause!
G2 we trade creatures hit each other to below 10 while I miracled bonfire him for exact!

Had a great laugh and chat here :cool: finally another nic fit player in my meta
We didn't board out explorers, apparently ramping me kills him thanks to scapeshift

M5 - ANT ID
He is a old friend, happy as hell I do not play him :wink:

In top 8

M6 - U/W miracles
O GAWD I HATE THIS MATCHUP
Nothing resolves, even if they do it never mattered as I was too far from the game. Bonfire really sucked here, kept wishing they were maelstrom pulses!

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Well done, gratz

I know you encountered a specific meta but in general would you prefer your bonfires to Pulse?

How did 2 Gravetitans work for you, would you keep them in this list?

Grave Titan is probably the best finisher for this deck. If not for it not being Green Sunnable it would definitely be the best.

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

Wait what? Rector allows the enchanting of Hexproof creatures? I understand how you can get an aura on Emrakul (because hes not Hexproof/Shroud), but I have never heard of enchanting a Mongoose before.

My guess is that as the aura enters the battlefield, it is targeting as a permanent, therefore it isn't a spell or an ability anymore. Shroud effects only grant protection from spells and abilities.

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Originally Posted by fireiced

I think it works the same way how Zur can "enchant" himself with auras even with him enchanted with shroud like Diplomatic Immunity with his triggered ability

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^

The enchantment comes into play already attached to something. It doesn't target, therefore shroud has no effect on it.

Why is everyone cutting Primeval Titan from Scapewish, exactly? I could see going 1/1 split with Grave, but Primeval's way too good to cut. I've won a lot of games just on his back alone -- either because he sticks around and literally wins on his own, or just because he fetches up both Valakuts when he resolves and then you proceed to derp all over their face.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

^
Why is everyone cutting Primeval Titan from Scapewish, exactly? I could see going 1/1 split with Grave, but Primeval's way too good to cut. I've won a lot of games just on his back alone -- either because he sticks around and literally wins on his own, or just because he fetches up both Valakuts when he resolves and then you proceed to derp all over their face.

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Why would you run gravetitan in scapewish at all? Isn't the gameplan to have valakut in play and then bash with mountains? I also cannot see why you would run a non-GSZ target which on itself is fragile to pernicious deed due to tokens over a wincon GSZ target that also helps filter for topdecks as quite a few already stated that it can come to bothplayers in topdeck mode..

What does the Grave titan do which makes it so highly liked at all?
Scapewishers respond !! :wink:

I would rather play scapewish, and if its not enough use loaming shaman to recycle your lands to do it over and over again

Sylvan Savekeeper can put your lands in the graveyard if you need to as well, nice for primefall titan and protects your creatures
Loaming Shaman is good for graveyard hate and works nice with primefall and scapewish
Primefall titan is good for scapewish and gives a clock
Primefall titan is bad versus submerge, wooptiedoo


synergy for the win.. at least thats my take on the deck..

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Originally Posted by Cire_dk

Well done, gratz

I know you encountered a specific meta but in general would you prefer your bonfires to Pulse?

How did 2 Gravetitans work for you, would you keep them in this list?

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My meta is INFESTED, I repeat INFESTED with merfolk and their islands all over the bloody place! besides gobos, zoo and maverick all are gunned down by the bonfire!

Grave boy is really a meta call, the 2 zombies do A LOT of work against u/w miracles by chipping at their life low enough for me to slow roll valakuts against them. People might say primeval does the trick easily but it seems after getting jace bounced, my primeval gets countered NONSTOP as they already have prepared Terminus on top with counterbalance or just plain top decked a counterspell or force.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Why is everyone cutting Primeval Titan from Scapewish, exactly? I could see going 1/1 split with Grave, but Primeval's way too good to cut. I've won a lot of games just on his back alone -- either because he sticks around and literally wins on his own, or just because he fetches up both Valakuts when he resolves and then you proceed to derp all over their face.

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O Arianrhod! As I said I have very weird interactions with my decks, apparently I always draw valakuts against every testing game and game in the small tourny against u/w miracles. Besides it was a suggestion by my mate running u/w miracles so I figured I try it out!

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Originally Posted by KMS

Why would you run gravetitan in scapewish at all? Isn't the gameplan to have valakut in play and then bash with mountains? I also cannot see why you would run a non-GSZ target which on itself is fragile to pernicious deed due to tokens over a wincon GSZ target that also helps filter for topdecks as quite a few already stated that it can come to bothplayers in topdeck mode..

What does the Grave titan do which makes it so highly liked at all?
Scapewishers respond !! :wink:

I would rather play scapewish, and if its not enough use loaming shaman to recycle your lands to do it over and over again

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No I myself do not like grave titan over primeval as primeval makes the game end so much faster just by digging mountains in to play after the initial 2 valakuts. By the way @KMS I really love your idea on boseiju to make sure my spells get forced through. Maybe 1 Crop Rotation to grab this bad boy in play? Really need to see Arianrhod's opinion as I basically modified by deck from his :cool:

Besides deed in the u/w matchup is really to fight against those annoying End of my Turn Entreats, GSZ for Huntermaster and roll this 1 man wolf army will threaten leathal against any deck I play against, Grave Titan is just to come down to seal the deal after they deal with Huntmaster.

That said, I still find Grave Titan extremely clunky, but they just proved their worth in that 1 win I had against u/w miracles with said zombie tokens chipping down an active jace, 4 life off the opponent and let me stay in game by chumping taigos and mishra factories as I tried to draw the last mountain to finish him off

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Originally Posted by Osmin

Share the knowledge with others! :smile:

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I usually side 1-2 explorers, 1-2 wood elves and 1 flex for 3 REB and 2 extirpates

:laugh: actually that is about it, can't really side a lot with a wish board

Note: I never side out therapies, I JUST LOVE THIS CARD! [although Arianrhod suggested taking out 1-2]

More fuel for GBR Nic Fits, perhaps? 8cc is scary high, but it has a Grave Titan-esque ability and crazy synergy with Broodmate Dragon to end almost any game the next turn.

Dragon Fit?

Utvara Hellkite 6RR
Creature - Dragon (M)
Flying
Whenever a dragon you control attacks, put a 6/6 red dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
6/6

I've contemplated trying to build a Jund-color Dragon Fit list a few times -- we have the mana production to actually use Sarkhan the Mad, and with Top, we could have a functional Bob that doesn't actually kill us. Load up on like Broodmate, Thundermaw, and other assorted playable dragons, and go to town. I've never actually built it other than just assembled synergies in my head, though, and I'm fairly sure that 8 mana is just too damn much. If such a list were to exist, if it wanted an 8-drop, it would surely be Hellkite Overlord, not that thing.

I do love me some hellkite overlord! *That dude is so sweet... Sadly it just isn't good. *Sarkhan Vol seems kinda sweet to... Putting him down tell Non cast emrakuls to eat one. *

I've been thinking of dropping punishing fires... It weakens my mana base to wasteland and it makes for some Grindy games. *May go back to GB once RTR comes out. *

Edit: with rector and fetters, it's the same reason in standard that solar flare was playing dead weight and pacifism. You can use Sun Titans recursion ability to bring back enchantments and hit Thrun and Geist of Saint Traft.

Too bad Dragonspeaker Shaman is so fragile or Dragon-Nic-Fit could be okay. But that new Dragon? I'd rather run Bogardan Hellkite, but Inferno Titan is leagues better than either Hellkite.

So I've been lurking this thread for a while now and trying different variations of the deck on Cockatrice. It is a lot of fun, but I'd say my biggest issue right now is my mulligan decisions. I've had way too many games where I either didn't mulligan enough and couldn't play + sac an Explorer, and also way too many games where I remembered those other games and mulliganed too much just trying to find an Explorer. This experience will come with time, though.

I'd like to purchase the deck as my first entrance into actually owning legacy cards. For this reason, I think the best option is to start with straight GB and then once that's complete I can work on a white or blue splash. Here is the list I just drew up at work for what I might buy. Please tell me what is wrong with it before I spend money on cards I shouldn't want. I don't know what metagame I'm up against, since I haven't actually competed at my LGS's legacy tournaments yet.

Creatures (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze

Artifacts (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantments (4)
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena

Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Primal Hunter

Sorceries & Instants (15)
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Innocent Blood
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands (22)
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Forest
5 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold

The sideboard will come later. Thanks!

@Ayotte,

-Leave Sakura out of a 2colored list;
-Don't buy 2 Phyrexian Towers yet, you might not need the second;
-Don't buy Pulses yet, Decay might just replace it;
-Don't play any non-forest Fetches;
-Play an even number of Forests and Swamps, or;
-Play more Forests than Swamps.

I would also suggest Primeval Titan and 2 Treetop Village instead of Grave Titan. Since a Titan is your singleton bomb, make it GSZ-friendly and dont be afraid about the stability of your manabase in GB, it is very resilient as it is. Thoughtseize is a card I would never recommend to a newcomer in Legacy because it is stupid expensive and not that much better than Inquisition of Kozilek or Duress. As for IB, it will probably be replaced by Decay/Liliana altogether, but its not expensive, so go ahead and buy 12 playsets...

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

@Ayotte,

-Leave Sakura out of a 2colored list;
Okay.
-Don't buy 2 Phyrexian Towers yet, you might not need the second;
Okay
-Don't buy Pulses yet, Decay might just replace it;
I was listing pulses because I thought the main purpose of them was to deal with planeswalkers, which is an important issue for this deck. I already own one pulse.
-Don't play any non-forest Fetches;
Should I have more green fetches? I only own the fetches I have listed, which is why they're the ones I listed.
-Play an even number of Forests and Swamps, or;
-Play more Forests than Swamps.
Oh, yeah, I meant to do that. Thanks.

I would also suggest Primeval Titan and 2 Treetop Village instead of Grave Titan. Since a Titan is your singleton bomb, make it GSZ-friendly and dont be afraid about the stability of your manabase in GB, it is very resilient as it is. Thoughtseize is a card I would never recommend to a newcomer in Legacy because it is stupid expensive and not that much better than Inquisition of Kozilek or Duress. As for IB, it will probably be replaced by Decay/Liliana altogether, but its not expensive, so go ahead and buy 12 playsets...

I was considering the primeval and treetop. Thanks for the advice there. I already own 4 thoughtseizes. I also really like Innocent Blood as a card, and I was assuming that I would want some cheap removal that's not pulse or deed. I also wanted to make sure to have a way to bin explorer, since not having a sacrifice effect has lost me a few games in the past couple weeks.

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Thanks for the advice. What should I use instead of the elders?

testing this:

1 Sylvan safekeeper
1 scapeshift
1 terrafore as sweet gsz target, should grow fast with protection from safekeeper
1 primefall titan
4 veteran explorer
1 loaming shaman
1/2 phantasmal image
perhaps a random knight of the reliquary though i rather have trample then searching lands

just played picelli, and he kicked my butt. game one i had a few misplays leaving an open board at 2 hp which should not happen.. if I get excited im at my worse :wink:

game 2 extirpate on therapy and got killed by ooze/lilliana
im ok with the setup though it needs quite some refinement..
I played surgical extraction MB to test as well rather had brainstorm for sure

What actually killed me is two games graveyard dependant.. (extirpate+ooze, with liliana's +1 is not what you want to face) should go for more agro style game 2
overall im happy with the results, and i should have won game1 period :cry:
Had leviathan in play and therapy's in the gy, could have called but forgot, then out tapping myself and threapy with the wrong guy for recurring nightmare intoleviathan again.. so stupid should not have happenend

Sakura isn't there to mana fix, its there to accelerate. You just saw his problem of mulling into oblivion of not having Explorers, and taking out the backup doesn't help.

Likewise, taking out Towers and Bloods when he admits having problems losing games to not having a sac outlet is also bad.

Decay doesn't strictly replace Pulse, but a 1+/1+ split might work too.

I'd say those fetches are okay. The only single problem one is Polluted Delta, but for starting out it shouldn't be all that bad. The most important part of the forest fetch is to give you better chance at throwing down Explorers, and Delta gets Bayou gets Explorer. You run the risk of Bayou getting wasted, but fuck it, that specific scenario won't be all that common here. Maybe switch it out later, but don't feel like its going ro ruin your whole deck.

Play test and buy whichever list makes you happy, but make sure you test such changes. Like taking out Grave Titan and putting in Treetops, which fuck over your mana base.

@Ayotte,

Here is my post-RtR GB Nic Fit list:


Creatures (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kodama of the North Tree
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

Spells (25)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Vraska the Unseen

Lands (22)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Treetop Village
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
3 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
1 Darkblast
1 Damnation
4 Duress
2 Tsunami
1 Ichneumon Druid
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Gaddock Teeg

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Originally Posted by KMS

And to awnser a previous question(I think iona because that can keep you for casting your solution) though its not as devastating if you dont have a direct awnser, then emraku is pretty bad.. it should not attack.
Anyways I dont think they are that terrible at all, they give allot of stress and you SHOULD have awnsers mainboard for those matchups

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That's the problem I'm having: there's just so much viable, yet situational removal available for this deck. Off the top of my head, we have Edicts, Decay, Damnation, Pulse, Deed, Grip, etc. It's becoming a pita to prepare a removal suite that is consistent in both utility and frequency.

Or is this archetype just that metagame sensitive?

No Deathrite Shaman? As a 3-of i can't see it as bad in this deck. Pretty nice synergy with liliana too. I wouldn't play more than 3 as multiple of it aren't as good when u run a rock-like deck like nice-fit.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

Sakura isn't there to mana fix, its there to accelerate. You just saw his problem of mulling into oblivion of not having Explorers, and taking out the backup doesn't help.

Likewise, taking out Towers and Bloods when he admits having problems losing games to not having a sac outlet is also bad.

Decay doesn't strictly replace Pulse, but a 1+/1+ split might work too.

I'd say those fetches are okay. The only single problem one is Polluted Delta, but for starting out it shouldn't be all that bad. The most important part of the forest fetch is to give you better chance at throwing down Explorers, and Delta gets Bayou gets Explorer. You run the risk of Bayou getting wasted, but fuck it, that specific scenario won't be all that common here. Maybe switch it out later, but don't feel like its going ro ruin your whole deck.

Play test and buy whichever list makes you happy, but make sure you test such changes. Like taking out Grave Titan and putting in Treetops, which fuck over your mana base.

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I agree with some of this and disagree with some as well. Qweerios knows his GB, so I'd trust his judgment here. I know he's had a great deal of success with Primeval->2x Treetop, specifically. I like a lot of your advice for just like some random standard player who wants to get into it, but if he already owns Thoughtseizes, and wants to just straight up buy dual lands, this isn't a usual case where we need to use kit gloves and gently caress them into the format. Ayotte seems to want to dive in headfirst.

Also, keep in mind that yeah, while he's had those problems, I'm much more inclined to blame Cockatrice's failure of a random generator. Real-life pilots of the deck have had no problems similar to what he's describing, certainly not to the extent that he has. Sakura-Tribes are unnecessary in G/B, especially in a list without Nightmare. Innocent Blood is okay, the 2nd Tower isn't necessary in G/B, etc. Yeah, they smooth out having / saccing Explorers, but again, real-life pilots don't have trouble with that -- only cockatrice does.

If you own Thoughtseizes already, more power to you. You definitely do want green fetches, because you always want to be able to fetch a basic forest to go with your Explorer -- that way you don't expose yourself needlessly to wasteland.

I do agree that IMO Decay splits with Pulse. Probably a 2/2 in G/B?

But yeah, tl;dr, listen to Qweerios on this one, Ayotte.

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

No Deathrite Shaman? As a 3-of i can't see it as bad in this deck. Pretty nice synergy with liliana too. I wouldn't play more than 3 as multiple of it aren't as good when u run a rock-like deck like nice-fit.

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I honestly don't see what issues Deathrite Shaman solves for Nic Fit.

@Claymore,

If you take away the color-fixing aspect of Sakura, you are left only with ramp. Ramping 1 tapped land off of 1G is terrible by Legacy's, and Nic Fit's standards. If you are aiming for a more high CMC/explosive type of GB Nic Fit, I would suggest adding more Towers before secondary/sub-par ramp.

Well, I can see no reason to believe Arianrhod doesn't know what he's talking about. :cool:

Sounds good :P.

Thoughts on the new Wurm? 2GGWW 5/5 trample, when etb make a 5/5 trample wurm token.

Feels like the Broodmate Dragon for Rector. I wish it had a Titan attack effect too, but the cycling with Nightmare for trample wurms warms my loins.

Might be a bit hasty and ill-thought out, but might challenge Grave Titan for its spot considering you can directly GSZ for it. This hints at removing Fierce Empath, although the Sun Titan doesn't quite have a match just yet.