[Primer] R/G Lands

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

It's unnecessary. Sure, it's useful, but I like to play a bit like Dredge. You play game one with your game plan as streamlined as you can make it, then game two, after you side out the Manabonds and what not, you can play a more hateful game.

I do like upping the sideboard slots dedicated to hating out Moon and other shit though. Since our own way to get one outside of a natural draw is to literally Gamble for it, having more to draw as the deck becomes a bigger target is handy. I am not sure a card with a double colour cost should be that card, not when we can't make one of those without a Moxen under a Moon, but I do think it's a start.

Also, Counterbalance can die in a fucking hole. Moon and Counterbalance. You know, just Miracles in general... As I type that, I like Decay just that little bit more.

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I feel that most Miracles players know how to defeat Lands in a game 1 with the types of competitive hands they're likely to keep. Because of this I think Abrupt Decay (or K-Grip if that's your thing) is a requirement for maindeck. Sacrificing lands in the main deck hurts a lot but it's for the greater good. Plus, there's bonus splash wins for playing Abrupt Decay (X more answers to DRS and Delver, for instance!).

I understand about the streamlined game one but there's nothing saying we can't play a more patient game. I mean, look back since I've started posting in this thread! I've loudly claimed that 4 Depths and 4 Crop Rotation isn't needed if we're just patient. With X game one uncounterable answers to threats we have more of a controlling game.

P.S., Thrun is the business against Miracles.

I will probably be testing without Karakas for a bit, as I do not use it super ofter. I like MB Decay because T1 Blood Moon/Chalice are not uncommon where I play. In a less known meta, I'd feel comfortable moving it to side.

The top 8 of Bazaar of Moxen is pretty hostile to lands.

1 Grixis Delver
1 Eldrazi
2 ANT
1 Belcher
1 Miracles
1 Elves (with Ruric Thar! Pack your Karakas!)
1 BUG Thing in the Ice brew

I don't know about you all but I only want to play against Grixis Delver and the random BUG deck.

Keep this in mind for GP Columbus as people will be looking to BoM for ideas even though it's the European metagame.

On abrupt decay:

Just wanted to say that in my last set of videos i faced miracles four times and didn't win a single first game, even with abrupt decay maindeck. Straight rg still feels better to me. I've been running three pyroblast as part of my anti combo package and have really liked it. Good against Miracles too.

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Originally Posted by gigapatrick

On abrupt decay:

Just wanted to say that in my last set of videos i faced miracles four times and didn't win a single first game, even with abrupt decay maindeck. Straight rg still feels better to me. I've been running three pyroblast as part of my anti combo package and have really liked it. Good against Miracles too.

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What was the shortcoming(s) against Miracles game 1? In what way did Abrupt Decay fail to get there?

I played REB in the past, during Dig OmniTell era and it was reasonable. How is it these days?

About Pyroblasts - I think they were a fine sideboard option during the dark OmniTell era where Miracles and OmniTell were literally everywhere. Now, I wouldn't want to run them. They're pretty bad versus non-Miracles blue decks because most of the spells that Lands cares about are non-blue such as Deathrite, Surgical and various hate pieces like Blood Moon, Null Rod, Winter Orb, Needle etc. The issue with Pyroblasts against Miracles is they're super dead draws after a Counterbalance hits. With access to Green and Black I think there are much better hate cards and high impact cards against Miracles than Pyroblast - not to mention Pithing Needle, which I always like running.

Regarding Karakas - although I personally run it, in my opinion it's the most "cut-able" utility land from the 75. It's pretty weak versus Show and Tell/Reanimator and it really only helps out with keeping creatures like Thalia and Gaddock Teeg out of your face without investing more than a simple Karakas activation. Yeah you can Punishing Fire them too, but it wastes more of their time recasting/revialing them in hoping to slow you down. It's also helpful versus the "Lost Legends" of Legacy that randomly show up from time to time, like Tasigur, Ruric-Thar and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Overall though - I wouldn't go out of my way to run Karakas.

Lastly, about the "Belcher Resurgence". It's actually not that unfavourable matchup as most people would think. Yeah they can sometimes just Belcher you on T1 with you having no recourse but the way the deck is constructed you can easily Glacial Chasm lock out that deck and 50% of their hands are Empty Hands which can be dealt with easily with Tabernacle.

A friend of mine (who has access to essentially every competitive Legacy deck) was bragging to me how he just finished buying up the pieces for Belcher and how he would steamroll me on Lands. I debated that it was not as bad a matchup as he would believe so we made a dinner bet that I could win at least 5/10 complete best 2/3 matches. I won 6/10 by the end of the night and dinner was sweet : )

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Originally Posted by barcode

The top 8 of Bazaar of Moxen is pretty hostile to lands.

1 Grixis Delver
1 Eldrazi
2 ANT
1 Belcher
1 Miracles
1 Elves (with Ruric Thar! Pack your Karakas!)
1 BUG Thing in the Ice brew

I don't know about you all but I only want to play against Grixis Delver and the random BUG deck.

Keep this in mind for GP Columbus as people will be looking to BoM for ideas even though it's the European metagame.

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I would say Lands is favored against Eldrazi but I guess I could be wrong. GP columbus will probably be a ton of Miracles and a ton of Eldrazi, I would expect ANT to be good in that's meta.

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Originally Posted by barcode

The top 8 of Bazaar of Moxen is pretty hostile to lands.

1 Grixis Delver
1 Eldrazi
2 ANT
1 Belcher
1 Miracles
1 Elves (with Ruric Thar! Pack your Karakas!)
1 BUG Thing in the Ice brew

I don't know about you all but I only want to play against Grixis Delver and the random BUG deck.

Keep this in mind for GP Columbus as people will be looking to BoM for ideas even though it's the European metagame.

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I wouldn't mind Elves but that matchup is fucking annoying. I'm also the masochist that enjoys playing the Miracles MU, it's usually pretty grindy and interesting post-board.

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Originally Posted by barcode

The top 8 of Bazaar of Moxen is pretty hostile to lands.

1 Grixis Delver
1 Eldrazi
2 ANT
1 Belcher
1 Miracles
1 Elves (with Ruric Thar! Pack your Karakas!)
1 BUG Thing in the Ice brew

I don't know about you all but I only want to play against Grixis Delver and the random BUG deck.

Keep this in mind for GP Columbus as people will be looking to BoM for ideas even though it's the European metagame.

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Well, I don't like ANT, and of course I like some fairer MU's, but it doesn't look like a complete shit-storm.

Oh, you guys saw who won? Absolutely insane!

EDIT: and to give you a hint: look at the picture, not at the results.

To barcode:

Not saying that Abrupt Decay failed or anything. Just saying that having three maindeck isn't enough to give us a good game one against Miracles. We'd need four maindeck and good ways to get them into our hand.

To Hyp3rion:

It is true that Pyroblast isn't great if Counterbalance hits the field, but if it does, we've got K-Grip to make it live again. It is also true that REBs aren't great against non-blue combo decks like Belcher and BR Reanimator, but I'm willing to have a little less game against these decks (which I would consider rare) to have a card that is good at hitting a slew of things that give us trouble. And I'm not sure why I'd want my anti-combo pieces to hit Blood Moon or Deathrite Shaman. I'm using them instead of Thorn effects, not Abrupt Decay--but that's actually why I like Pyroblast. They fit into the board as part of the seven (or eight) anti-combo pieces, but you can also bring them in to hits things like Counterbalance or Meddling Mage. Not saying they're what I'll always play, but so far I've liked them.

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

I would say Lands is favored against Eldrazi but I guess I could be wrong. GP columbus will probably be a ton of Miracles and a ton of Eldrazi, I would expect ANT to be good in that's meta.

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In my testing with Eldrazi I found the match to be very slightly in favour of Eldrazi. The reason is they don't need to cast Endless One as a 2/2. Once they start making creatures with toughness >2 Punishing Fire isn't as good. THE MOST important part of the matchup is a quick combo that doesn't rely on 1-drops (they play 4 Chalice). Punishing Fire can't be sided out at all. They have Wasteland too so don't lean heavily on Chasm lock or you could be a sad panda when they alpha you after wasting it. Eldrazi is definitely winnable but it's not easy.

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

I would say Lands is favored against Eldrazi but I guess I could be wrong. GP columbus will probably be a ton of Miracles and a ton of Eldrazi, I would expect ANT to be good in that's meta.

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I would not recommend bringing ANT to a room full of eldrazi. Chalice, TKS, and thorn of amethyst are a nightmare for them. If the eldrazi deck scares people off of ANT, belcher and TES may be the storm decks of choice which might be a tad easier for lands to fight. I think Grixis delver may be a popular choice for the foreseeable future since its got game against miracles and eldrazi, and we can prey on that deck while still having game against the other two :)

I would take us over Eldrazi every time in that matchup. They are a dog to Wasteland, have issues with Maze, Port and Tabernacle and they are while able to be fast, not great at dealing with someone that can roadblock their mana.

I like that Eldrazi is in the Meta, they really do help attack our worse matches while giving us a very winnable one in replacement.

Something to note about that matchup. Tabernacle gives the cost to the creature, it becomes an effect of that creature. Due to this, Temple can be tapped to pay for two Eldrazi under a Tabernacle.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Something to note about that matchup. Tabernacle gives the cost to the creature, it becomes an effect of that creature. Due to this, Temple can be tapped to pay for two Eldrazi under a Tabernacle.

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This is not correct.

Eldrazi Temple says it can be used to pay for activated abilities. Tabernacle's granted ability is a triggered ability and not an activated one. Remember, activated abilities look like Cost:Ability with a colon notably between the two pieces.

I've been testing R/G Lands against Eldrazi and its not a bad matchup, however it can be really nasty depending if they are running wastelands, or if they are running the W based version with Eldrazi Displacer. Ive also been testing Ghost Quarter again, and its been pretty solid. I also bring in Primeval Titan in this match as well, in case they have Displacer or Karakas. Sometimes Titan is win more, but there have been instances where Primeval Titan won me the game for me against Eldrazi.

I also had a hilarious game against Reanimator where they played Show and Tell, and dropped Tidespout Tyrant, and I dropped Primeval Titan and got Two Wastelands, Wasted both his lands, swung on my turn and got a Tabernacle and another wasteland. It was pretty sweet.

Currently My list is 61 cards (Standard R/G list + Ghost Quarter, Might Cut Riftstone Portal to bring down to 60)

Board Looks Like:
4 Chalice of The Void
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Primeval Titan
1 Boseju ,Who Shelters All
1 Karakas (Flex Slot, Could Be Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle)

I've also considered running 2 Phyrexian Revokers in the Boseju/Karakas slots, mainly to stop Top, as well as stopping LED in the Storm Match. It also is pretty good against DRS & Sneak Attack I considered needle, but I like the fact that Revoker can come down with Chalice @1 and as a former painter player I know a single Revoker can go the distance against miracles, and having them use a STP or Terminus on it is fine by me. Boseju is only decent in the Miracles match, and Karakas is only decent in the SnT & Reanimator Matchups. Revoker is good in Multiple Matchups. But with anything, it warrants testing. Also in testing Primeval Titan has been really good.

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Originally Posted by barcode

This is not correct.

Eldrazi Temple says it can be used to pay for activated abilities. Tabernacle's granted ability is a triggered ability and not an activated one. Remember, activated abilities look like Cost:Ability with a colon notably between the two pieces.

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What I thought although I haven't found anyone that says that you can't pay for two like that (nor have I found much of anything regarding that)

Is it just me or does it seem like Lands is falling in popularity?

Or maybe it's just the overall meta pushing this deck out of the format?

I rarely see it on camera.

Opps. My bad.

It's not easy to play right. I have been playing Jund Depths or Combo Lands for over 2 years and I still fuck up. Its also not cheap. (What is really) I think Lands is more popular in some locations than it is others but I don't think it's popularity is dropping.

I mean, I don't seen many people put the deck down once they own it, we see the same names playing it and the same names posting here. It's not like Delver where you can pick it up and the switch to something else, then come back. It's a deck you have to want to play, have to enjoy playing and have to be driven to Master. (Don't I sound portentous)

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Opps. My bad.

It's not easy to play right. I have been playing Jund Depths or Combo Lands for over 2 years and I still fuck up. Its also not cheap. (What is really) I think Lands is more popular in some locations than it is others but I don't think it's popularity is dropping.

I mean, I don't seen many people put the deck down once they own it, we see the same names playing it and the same names posting here. It's not like Delver where you can pick it up and the switch to something else, then come back. It's a deck you have to want to play, have to enjoy playing and have to be driven to Master. (Don't I sound portentous)

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Lands is popular in Toronto. I like to think because I've played it for so long and have inspired people. :)

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

Is it just me or does it seem like Lands is falling in popularity?

Or maybe it's just the overall meta pushing this deck out of the format?

I rarely see it on camera.

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Check my sig, there are still MU's to find. I know some can only be found on Twitch, and of course I could copy-paste them, but you know: copyrights. Overall, if I find a new vid on YT I will add it to the playlist.

About populair or not: it's just you pour a lot of money into this deck, but you can't really transport them to another deck. Nothing to do with popularity, rather the lack of 'family tree', like Delver for instance. Friends of my like to play the deck (some can), but to commit is a different story. I was fortunate enough to have some staples because of other 'fringe' decks, and was able to affort a Tabernacle before the Great Spike.

Lands has always been somewhat fringe due to Tabernacle. Prior to the RG build becoming a thing, you might see it once in a blue moon, you see it more now but it's still a remarkably small % of the meta game at any given point.

Not sure if this was mentioned, but mr. Yu has another spicy list that did well:
2 ghost quarters, 2 groves, 3 ports, 2 vortex, 2 punishing fires and 2 manabond.

The list looks like a nice compromise but i like the devastating dreams in the sideboard.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=102608

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Originally Posted by non-inflammable

Not sure if this was mentioned, but mr. Yu has another spicy list that did well:
2 ghost quarters, 2 groves, 3 ports, 2 vortex, 2 punishing fires and 2 manabond.

The list looks like a nice compromise but i like the devastating dreams in the sideboard.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=102608

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He also played savannah and karakas main to support 4 containment priests post board. Really interesting choices for sure.

speaking of white:
Nahiri, the Harbinger might be a good sideboard choice. Deals with all of the troublesome enchantments and +2 is good with Loam and lands to discard.
The card might be too cute.

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Originally Posted by J0n

If you expect tons of gravehate in your local meta, especially surgical extraction, DRS and Ooze, do you think boarding "Ground Seal" could make sense? Or is it too narrow for a SB slot? What are your experiences with this card?

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Read Ground Seal and Life from the Loam. Let me know what you think. :)

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Originally Posted by barcode

Read Ground Seal and Life from the Loam. Let me know what you think. :)

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Oops, sorry for the silly question. Did not remember the card correctly. Thought it would only count for the opponent...

Plz ignore ;-)

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Originally Posted by non-inflammable

Not sure if this was mentioned, but mr. Yu has another spicy list that did well:
2 ghost quarters, 2 groves, 3 ports, 2 vortex, 2 punishing fires and 2 manabond.

The list looks like a nice compromise but i like the devastating dreams in the sideboard.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=102608

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Just wanted to point out that this list was piloted by Eric Yu, not Jarvis Yu. Now, I'm certain Eric is a fine, wonderful fellow, but that does not make him the same person that won a Gran Prix with RG Lands.

Which means his opinion is invalid because he didn't run hot at a GP. Maybe you should know a player before disregarding their changes and ideas as less because they aren't a "internet grinder pro"

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

I actually looked at Eric's build, because someone wanted to know if I was related to him. (No, I'm not).

There's some very interesting ideas in there.

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Originally Posted by Jon

Which means his opinion is invalid because he didn't run hot at a GP. Maybe you should know a player before disregarding their changes and ideas as less because they aren't a "internet grinder pro"

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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what is an 'internet grinder pro', and how can i be paid to be one?

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Originally Posted by Jon

Which means his opinion is invalid because he didn't run hot at a GP. Maybe you should know a player before disregarding their changes and ideas as less because they aren't a "internet grinder pro"

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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I think you're misreading Patrick here. He just pointed out the fact that this isn't Jarvis Yu. Relax, nobody is disregarding anyone. In any case, I welcome people who are willing to think outside the box. Keeps things interesting, if you know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

what is an 'internet grinder pro', and how can i be paid to be one?

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Do you stream legacy or post any YouTube videos playing lands?

Are you currently on your lands build from the GP or has your list evolved a lot (Splashing Black or White)?

I'm only asking because I was considering playing lands at the GP and wanted to see what success you've had with the list since your GP win.

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

Do you stream legacy or post any YouTube videos playing lands?

Are you currently on your lands build from the GP or has your list evolved a lot (Splashing Black or White)?

I'm only asking because I was considering playing lands at the GP and wanted to see what success you've had with the list since your GP win.

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I played RG/b for a little, and it was fine, although I didn't love the mana.

I played straight RG in a Super Sunday Series trial on Friday of GP Toronto, and chopped the finals with hyp3rion (who was playing Miracles).

I haven't had time to stream or record any videos, given 40 hour work weeks and only time after work to figure out what i'm doing for certain tournaments.


I do think RG/b is very good if you're willing to risk a shakier manabase, but straight RG runs so smoothly. I've moved off Choke, and moved onto 2 Boil + Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

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boseiju... who shelters AAAAAAAAAAAALLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyways, eric yu is an extremely competent lands player and i would seriously consider any deckbuilding decisions he makes

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

I played RG/b for a little, and it was fine, although I didn't love the mana.

I played straight RG in a Super Sunday Series trial on Friday of GP Toronto, and chopped the finals with hyp3rion (who was playing Miracles).

I haven't had time to stream or record any videos, given 40 hour work weeks and only time after work to figure out what i'm doing for certain tournaments.


I do think RG/b is very good if you're willing to risk a shakier manabase, but straight RG runs so smoothly. I've moved off Choke, and moved onto 2 Boil + Boseiju, Who Shelters All.

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I haven't had any luck with Boseiju seems very meta specific. I however been getting my butt kicked by several burn decks in my local meta.

It's gotten to the point I'm considering running 4 leyline of sanctity in my sideboard.

How do you feel lands is positioned in the Eldrazi filled meta? I can see how Eldrazi can push out some of our really bad matchups from the meta (ANT) but I find eldrazi to be rather annoying to play against as a lands player, especially if I don't know there on eldrazi game one. They seem to always have chalice on 1 which makes the game miserable but not unwinable.

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

I played straight RG in a Super Sunday Series trial on Friday of GP Toronto, and chopped the finals with hyp3rion (who was playing Miracles).

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He's going to have to turn in his Lands cards soon since he's been playing Miracles for months now! :eek::eek::confused:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

I think you're misreading Patrick here. He just pointed out the fact that this isn't Jarvis Yu. Relax, nobody is disregarding anyone. In any case, I welcome people who are willing to think outside the box. Keeps things interesting, if you know what I mean.

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Yes thanks chatto. Not trying to insult anyone. It's just that the original post made it seem like the new list was jarvis yu's, which it isn't.

In either case, i agree with j. Yu that rg feels smoother than rgb, though i'm not totally convinced boseiju plus two boils is better than running three chokes.

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Originally Posted by gigapatrick

In either case, i agree with j. Yu that rg feels smoother than rgb, though i'm not totally convinced boseiju plus two boils is better than running three chokes.

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You'll have to rip my Tabernacle from my cold dead hands before I ever get my Lands card revoked.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the Boseiju/Boil package you do need to have a Miracles hate strategy in the board. In my opinion, Chokes aren't that effective and wouldn't go in that direction. They're usually very easy to deal with and are a card that is literally on every Miracles players radars. With the amount of Chalices floating about the format right now, I wouldn't want to devote more of a Lands sb to vulnerable permanents like Choke.

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Originally Posted by hyp3r1on

You'll have to rip my Tabernacle from my cold dead hands before I ever get my Lands card revoked.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the Boseiju/Boil package you do need to have a Miracles hate strategy in the board. In my opinion, Chokes aren't that effective and wouldn't go in that direction. They're usually very easy to deal with and are a card that is literally on every Miracles players radars. With the amount of Chalices floating about the format right now, I wouldn't want to devote more of a Lands sb to vulnerable permanents like Choke.

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All fair points. I've been owned by wear tear once or twice.

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Originally Posted by gigapatrick

All fair points. I've been owned by wear tear once or twice.

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I have a heavy burn meta where I am, I'm thinking about playing 2 or 3 Courser of Kruphix out of the side.

Have you ever tested with this card?