No Simian Spirit Guide?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorker
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No Simian Spirit Guide?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorker
@octopus man: Yes, no scimian spirit guide, because i forgot to add it XD
I need advice regarding equipment.
Hopefully, I can get this advice without sharing my list (since it's not ready yet [edit] latest iteration, I mean).
My main problem is that I want to have my cake and eat it too. Meaning, I am a lock piece whore but that generally means my clock is too slow. I have a much easier time winning when I have equipment. The problem is that I don't want to stuff so many of them into the deck that I'm having trouble with Chrome Mox imprints or having a grip of equipment instead of threats & lock pieces. If I go to the long game, I almost always lose.
If you use equipment, what is a good number and what do you prefer to use?
I generally run two and if I get one early I usually win. However, 1 in 30 chance means I usually don't see a copy. Any more than two and I feel like I have to mulligan more than I already want to.
2 equips just feels right but I get ornery when I don't see any. 3 or more and I feel bloated with equips.
Another problem I have with equipment is that I prefer swords because jitte kills too slowly. The trade off is that to get an explosive early game with a sword (i.e. equip + swing as early as jitte or a turn faster than non sol land dropping turns,) I need to play sol land + mox t1 and then sol land turn 2. First of all, it's about 50% having mox + sol land. Having two sol lands in the first 8 is even more rare. Annoying.
Turn 1 usually is Magus of the Moon 50% of the time if he's the moon I got. 25% of the other time, I drop Priest of Urabrask into regular moon. So there's about 1/4 chance that if I get the mana sources I want and an equipment, I won't be able to swing with equipped creature t2 anyway. So, should I even be concerned?
Thanks for hearing me out.
It would be nice to see what list you're running, but I'll try to give some input from what I know.
What equipment you're running really depends on what style of DS you are using. For traditional dragon lists, you are solely aggro and barely ever in a more controlling role. Here Sword of Body and Mind can help pump out more dudes while giving you a second win condition. Sword of Fire and Ice is always a really good card, but the card draw can mess up your hellbent. I haven't tested out the others, but Light and Shadow could be decent as well.
Werewolf lists are the same, except that Fire and Ice doesn't care about hellbent, so the card draw is much better there.
Goblin lists are different from the other two because you can take on a much more contolling role if necessary. Here Body and Mind is not so good while Fire and Ice is probably the best sword available.
In all lists Jitte is very good, and I probably would always run at least one and in my current Goblin list will probably run a single Jitte with a Sword of Fire and Ice.
Here is the list I'm thinking of running. I'm sure I'll make some tweaks before I can test in an event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zupponn
Main
Mountain 10
Ancient Tomb 4
City of Traitors 4
Simian Spirit Guide 4
Chrome Mox 4
Priest of Urabrask 4
Phyrexain Revoker 4
Blood Moon 4
Magus of the Moon 4
Chalice of the Void 4
Trinisphere 4
Sword of War & Peace 2
Seething Song 2
Destructive Urge 3
Instigator Gang 3
Board
Shattering Spree 3
Ratchet Bomb 3
An-Zerrin Ruins 1
Anarchy 3
Ensnaring Bridge 3
Magnetic Mountain 2
Is anyone going to GP Dc with dragon stompy?
You mentioned having troubles when you don't find your equipment, but are running no creatures that are huge threats on their own, with maybe the exception of Instigator Gang. My suggestion would be to cut the Destructive Urges and add in some equipment in their place. Something like 2 Fire and Ice, two Body and Mind and a Jitte might work well. Body and Mind might be your best bet, as the extra created body would be nice in a deck only running 15 creatures (19 with SSG).Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
Thanks, I will think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zupponn
Hello Dragom Stompy players :)
I am a Merfolk player. One of the players in my local meta runs an optimized Warewolf Stompy deck. I'd love to consistently beat him, and so if you could please answer a couple of questions, you'd really help me :)
1. What cards are you most afraid of in Merfolk decks?
2. Is Tidebender Mage a good card to side-in? Do you have many answers?
3. What do you sideboard in against me - what do I need to be prepared for?
4. How consistently can you get a challice out against me? I don't know the artifact, but there is one that makes everything cost 3. That hurts me because my FOW's suddenly cost 3. How consistently can you get that out turn 1?
Thanks guys! I actually love this deck, I wish I had one of my own :)
Hi Windmill,Quote:
Originally Posted by Windmill
I'll take a stab since no one has replied yet. I've played Dragon Stompy in Hellbent and Non-Hellbent variations for a very long time.
I'd be curious to know what is giving you trouble.
1. We're most afraid of you going first and landing an aether vial before we have a chance to drop a Chalice of the Void or a Trinisphere which is the artifact you mention in question 4. Once you get an aether vial, we're going to want to drop a chalice for two as soon as possible since our moons are not very useful at all and you're setting yourself up to race us by dropping lords/threats. I know it's kind of falling out of favor but despite being called Dragon Stompy many of our threats can't fly and we're short on removal so Coral-Helm Commander once leveled is really nasty and a lot of builds don't have a Phyrexian Revoker handy to shut him off.
Additionally, Dragon Stompy is fragile. We often rely on our "Sol Lands" (Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors) and therefore Wasteland can ruin our day if we, a) kept a hand with an accelerant (simian spirit guide/chrome mox), sol land, and maybe a mountain. Since our spells cost 3+, wasting that sol land is huge.
2. If you are already boarding in Tidebender Mage to deal with Knight of the Reliquary, or Goyf, or you have enough space for something like this in your meta to also believe it has value versus Dragon Stompy, I could see it as quality removal but I can't give advice in regards to what to take out for it. Although we do have a bunch of threats, we'd all be lying if we said Dragon Stompy hasn't won many games by landing a lock piece and riding a single threat to victory. Granted, aside from permission like Force of Will, Merfolk is low on removal unless you're still running that -5/-5 phyrexian spell (which is great for dodging chalice at 1 I might add). Tapping down our biggest threat while advancing your game plan seems solid. Consider it is post board so we may have a way to remove it but it slows us down and, if we want to get our threat back, we need to target this puny Merfolk instead of something more important like Reejery.
3. I'm testing unorthodox sideboard cards (because of true-name nemesis) which incendentally are effective against not just decks running TNN but Merfolk. I.e. Magnetic Mountain and An-Zerrin Ruins.
I'm also going to bring in ratchet bombs. It's nice to have a fast answer for vial if you dodged chalice and Merfolk is greedy on 2 drops so we're likely to get lots of value when we pop this thing. Careful not to overextend.
If I wasn't testing bad cards that only work once I've already taken damage, I'd still have Firespout to bring in. In the past, I've also ran pyroclasm, volcanic fallout, and artifact destruction for vials before I opted for sweepers. I run Phyrexian Revokers main, but you're likely to see this guy if people have him in the board to shut off aether vial and maybe coral-helm.
4. We can't get chalice down early consistently. It's only a four of so if you know the math that's less than 25% chance we have it in our starting hand. Keep in mind though that many Dragon Stompy players will mulligan often which can increase our chances of an early chalice. Your buddy knows you, so be might do this especially since he knows he won't get much mileage out of moons against you. An active vial or caverns care little for chalice trying to shut off creatures. Between silvergill, brainstorm, etc you're already seeing more cards than we are. It's interesting that you fear Trinisphere as there was a time when many (maybe some still do) wanted to put this card in the board. My opinion is that it belongs main deck now and in a werewolf build especially so you'll probably see it in game 1s vs. us. This is also just a four of so aside from heavy mulling, whether you see it or not early is a crap shoot. If we do have it, just like any of our lock pieces, we're probably going to cast it turn one. Like I said, we strive to have three mana on turn one. We'll usually either drop a moon, a trinisphere, or a chalice on 1 on turn one.
I hope this was somewhat helpful to you. Good luck.
Thank you so much - that was brilliant!
We've actually only had time to play two games. The first he won (made everything cost 3, and I couldn't find a third land). The second I destroyed him, it seemed to me that if I could counter the chalices and trinisphere I was home-free in many respects, but it is hard for me to know if he just got unlucky or not! We're going to play for fun at FNM so I just want to be prepared, since he is much more experienced than me. But yeah - trinisphere WRECKED me. What good is a vial if it costs 3 to play and I kept a 1 land hand?!
Would the chalice effect creatures brought in via vial? Once again, thanks so much! Importantly, I know from this that my daze is probably enough to deal with a turn 1 play, meaning I can afford to play something turn 1 and not have to leave up mana for spell pierce :)
Chalice would not affect creatures brought in through vial because you're not casting them.
has anyone tried replacing Chalice of the void and trinisphere with thorn of amethyst and sphere of resistance?
The advantages i noticed is that multiple thorns / sphere actually help instead of having 2 trinispheres in play and a chalice in play on 1 and an extra in your hand. the extra chalice isn't too bad but 1 is typically the sweet spot. You can now play 1 drops, so welder is an option. Tangle wire becomes an option. Lodestone golem fits in with this theme. Sphere / thorn have effect on cards that cost more than three like jace and liliana.
The disadvantages, you don't get a 2x turn time walk effect with a trinisphere on t1. and chalice on 1 is stronger than a sphere / thorn effect.
Other considerations include, having sphere / thorn effects may actually improve consistency. Chalice on 1 is beatable by a storm player, a sphere of resistance is much harder for them to generate enough mana through. 2 sphere effects is probably next to impossible cause they run so little mana. A ad nauseum would cost 7 at that point.
Maybe the right decision is running thorn of amethyst instead of trinisphere and keeping the chalice of the void... It means you'll have more t1 plays and thorn doesn't really slow you down.
this is almost leaning more towards a vintage stax build but still retaining a red element.
RUFF list below
Creatures: 24
4 lodestone Golem <---- he's just so good the deck should have always been running him probably...
1 Goblin Settler
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 goblin welder <---- can be tutored by moggcatcher / recruiter and can recur taglewires / lodestones
Art/Enchant: 16
3 Blood Moon
2 Tangle Wire <---- landing 1 of these after a lodestone or moggcatcher or siege gang is probably going to be game over. Can also buy you turns against combo
3 Sphere of resistance <---- replace trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
4 Thorn of Amethyst <-----replace chalice
Land: 19
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
7 Mountain <----possibly caverns
4 great furnace <--- for goblin welder
The great thing about having both Trinisphere and Chalice is that you can break them by focusing on spells that cost 3 or more to play. Going with all the taxing effects like Sphere, Thorn, and Lodestone really hurts you after you land them. MUD can use Lodestone because they run all artifacts, while Goblins can run Thorn SB because they run nearly all creatures. Without breaking these cards in any way, you're just making all your stuff cost 6 or 7 and theirs cost 3 or 4.
I just wanted to pop back and give a report on my Merfolk deck vs. my friend's Warewolf Stompy deck. Kind of backwards to do that I know, especially because we played 'till the shop closed and I won each time (so maybe 6-0?) thanks to some of the advice here, so I thought it might be helpful for thinking about aggro decks for you guys.
After the first game, the blood moons got sided out. It sucks not having my wastelands/mutavaults but its not a big deal tbh. The chalices were my worst nightmare because most of my creatures are 2-drop. However, his deck was so slow that I played a vial and then ticked up to 2, and then played creatures from that. In the meantime, I chumped with Cursecatchers (that cost 3 thanks to Trinisphere, ugh) Tidebender mage was sideboarded in after the first game and I just tapped down the warewolf and nothing could be done about it. His uncounterable burn-spell would set me back a bit but I'd just swarm the board again. TNN was almost just gg. As long as I found a way to lock down his single threat (and I had 3 Tidebender Mages + 2 dismembers + 3 TNN's) I was fine.
Basically, the only way he could win was a chalice for 2 + locking out my aether vial, with hopefully a trinisphere to slow me down, which he still got in one game - plus a blood moon effect with one of his creatures, and I still won that game (just). Lesson of the day: Merfolk vs. Warewolf Stompy just isn't a fair match-up (on the condition we can hit 3 mana with at least 2 sources of blue)!
:smile: After reading for years, my actual first post:
I kinda really think that Lodestone Golem aswell as Tangle Wire might be payed some attention. The denial-game is the strength of our deck, and both of those cards offer a way to advance our lock into a final strike.
True, every removal in this format hits on the Golem and Tangle wire shuts us down aswell, but it might a card that ables us to recover after a breakdown in the early game and does not hurt us as bad because of our Sol-Lands.
In combination to the Goblin Welder both cards can really help us to maybe also improve bad matchups like show and tell. Great Furnace might help aswell.
Anybody else any ideas on this?
Greetings from Germany,
lz
Hi guys,
Below is the list that I'm currently running, I would really appreciate your feedback or any needed changes or problems that you see. Thank you.
1 Vault Skirge
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawe’s Jitte
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Instigator Gang
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
I strongly feel that Vault Skirge is very underrated in this deck. It's been a champ for me, improving the decks consistently by giving me something to cast when I have one spare mana, and gaining me tons of life thanks to equipment.
Lands: 18
11 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
Artifacts: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox
Enchantments: 4
4 Blood Moon
Creatures: 28
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Moggcatcher
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Settler
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Rakka Mar
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and Ice
2 Flametongue cavu
1 zo-zu the punisher
A Rough Goblin Stompy list, i think there are too many 1 off Though
I have toyed with with Goblin Stompy before (called it Space Goblins),
The main issue I had with it was you want to be Welder Centric but sometimes you don't have enough artifacts for it.
I would run Rummaging Goblin as well. Discarding big artifacts and Welding them back gives another dimension (digging through your library and cheating fatties onto the field)
I've played with Lodestone Golem.
To be honest, I like my Chrome Moxen. Here, you're playing sometimes 3-4 of this guy and he can't imprint. Also, it's encouraging you to play more artifacts. You probably want to have already dropped artifact lock pieces prior to dropping golem so you're likely just taxing yourself unless you're playing a 2nd Chalice or Trinisphere. I prefer revoker since he is cheaper and also plays the mana denial game by shutting off the most popular mana dork ever printed (Deathrite Shaman in case you don't know) plus he turns off sneak attack, other elves, knights, etc etc etc.
I want to cast non-artifacts post lodestone. I don't think he'll seal the game as quickly as you think before they can stabilize. Is there a suite of artifact threats that are cheap and strong enough to run over red threats? I wouldn't advise running multiple 4 drops like Lodestone with moltensteel. Still, getting to 4 mana is even a challenge sometime and the moxen are key. Need those red cards.
Don't forget that Lodestone and Trinisphere don't make 1, 2 , or 3 drops cost 4. Or Trinisphere combined with any other tax for that matter.
I like the idea of tangle wire but again, it's another lock piece and I don't think it's wire to run it over trini or chalice. Remember, you can still get wrecked by one drop removal or threats like delver if they untap just one land or activate shaman.
Not trying to nay-say. As always, please test and put up good results!It is probably just a completely different build. I'd like to see someone make tangle wire work with lodestone. If only there was an "artifact land destruction" spell.
For the record, I always hated playing against merfolk with this deck. Even a set of Spinal Villains didn't change my mind. Thanks for getting back to us.