[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by lyracian

Congratulation on your finish; care to share your current board? Have you thought of using Cabal Therapy?
Also do you know how many players were at the event?

Also, in no way trying to downplay your finish, Prison Pox made top 8 at the other SCG Qualifier last week -
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=71238

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the singleton bsz in the main is nice, other cards that can fit in that slot could be toxic deluge, drown in sorrow, damnation or even a second NoSB..

the lone pithing needle in the main looks kinda random but if you think about it, you will almost never have a game in today's meta that it would be dead; think DRS, aether vial, sensei's divining top, JTMS, etc..its a touch a player can do if he feels comfortable enough with it in his meta but personally, i feel safer with just another removal spell or another threat instead of it..

the 1-of helm of obedience in the SB looks interesting, i wonder if he managed to pull it off during the matches..and which matches did he board it in? that is if he even boarded it in..looks like a weak sideboard card..i think void/helm combo works best in a deck designed around it; with tutors etc, card draw, etc..but as a singleton in a deck with no card draw, i personally think that its a weak card for that sideboard slot..but it'd sure be a blast if you can luckily draw it and pull it off during top decking.. :laugh:

Again a list without SDT... Makes me wonder, should I drop those from my MBP-list in order to make room for more business-spells? Also, I'm trying to fit in Waste Not, just for the sake of testing: should I stay MBP or go for a Green splash? List is the same as posted on page 59

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Originally Posted by bonkotsu

The only time I regret Waste Not is when my opponent is hellbent. I just finished Sunday Legacy and I actually took them out for Massacre vs Death and Taxes aggro again. Certain games I wished it was an Ensnaring Bridge. Or even some form of board wipe (against Death and Taxes).

Cons:
Obviously if your opponent stays hellbent then the card is useless. Your opponent can easily discard things that do nothing for you in creating zombies or mana. Depends on the player and match.

Overall:
I really do like the card. Is my version better than a "normal" pox deck? I can't answer that. Regular pox seems to just sit there with Nether Void out swinging for 2 here and there and not really doing anything. This version I guess is a bit more interactive in the sense you are "doing more" per turn. That being said I am fitting in Tabernacle and Nether Void to test out for GP NJ. I would love to fit in Sinkholes somehow. Too many players will play around my Wastelands. I kind of want to play Thoughtseize too but I do hate the life loss since I have so much already.

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If you're playing Pox "properly" your opponent is hellbent because you WANT them to be. Hard to play when you have no hand you see. This is why Rack builds can still work in a less aggro environment. 2 here and there? There's a name for that, it's called winning with a Prison deck. Prison means they can't do anything and you poke them to death. Want to kill them quicker? I've found a great way to do it. Play 2 threats that deal 2 damage. And play one BIG POX. You'll end the game in 3 turns if they played a single fetch land.

Funny thing, I didn't need to playtest the card to know this would happen in my aggro infested meta. :tongue: My advice for Death and Taxes? Don't use Massacre. Main deck a single Engineered Plague [name humans] or Night of Souls' Betrayal. When I fought death and taxes, either of those appearing meant insta-scoop for my hapless white mage foe.

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

If you're playing Pox "properly" your opponent is hellbent because you WANT them to be. Hard to play when you have no hand you see. This is why Rack builds can still work in a less aggro environment. 2 here and there? There's a name for that, it's called winning with a Prison deck. Prison means they can't do anything and you poke them to death. Want to kill them quicker? I've found a great way to do it. Play 2 threats that deal 2 damage. And play one BIG POX. You'll end the game in 3 turns if they played a single fetch land.

Funny thing, I didn't need to playtest the card to know this would happen in my aggro infested meta. :tongue: My advice for Death and Taxes? Don't use Massacre. Main deck a single Engineered Plague [name humans] or Night of Souls' Betrayal. When I fought death and taxes, either of those appearing meant insta-scoop for my hapless white mage foe.

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

If you're playing Pox "properly" your opponent is hellbent because you WANT them to be. Hard to play when you have no hand you see. This is why Rack builds can still work in a less aggro environment. 2 here and there? There's a name for that, it's called winning with a Prison deck. Prison means they can't do anything and you poke them to death. Want to kill them quicker? I've found a great way to do it. Play 2 threats that deal 2 damage. And play one BIG POX. You'll end the game in 3 turns if they played a single fetch land.

Funny thing, I didn't need to playtest the card to know this would happen in my aggro infested meta. :tongue: My advice for Death and Taxes? Don't use Massacre. Main deck a single Engineered Plague [name humans] or Night of Souls' Betrayal. When I fought death and taxes, either of those appearing meant insta-scoop for my hapless white mage foe.

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That's right!
I think that "the rack" is a funny list and it can work well in "good hands" but it's the "budget pox"...

I've never lose a game against D&T 2 tabernacles MD...3 abyss + 3 plagues post side are nightmares for any white mage!
...no one says nothing about my lists...sure i'm italian and my english is so and so but i'm a poxer since 1995 ;-)

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Originally Posted by miccel

That's right!
I think that "the rack" is a funny list and it can work well in "good hands" but it's the "budget pox"...

I've never lose a game against D&T 2 tabernacles MD...3 abyss + 3 plagues post side are nightmares for any withe mage!
...no one says nothing about my lists...sure i'm italian and my english is so and so but i'm a poxer since 1995 ;-)

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I've actually liked your lists the most so far. I like running sinkholes as well. I am actually hoping to try your list in the next week or so. (although I only have 1 tabernacle, and prob won't run the port.. althoguh I may try it if i can swing a foil one ;D)

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Originally Posted by miccel

That's right!
I think that "the rack" is a funny list and it can work well in "good hands" but it's the "budget pox"...

I've never lose a game against D&T 2 tabernacles MD...3 abyss + 3 plagues post side are nightmares for any withe mage!
...no one says nothing about my lists...sure i'm italian and my english is so and so but i'm a poxer since 1995 ;-)

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Unfortunately my budget isnt the best, I am borrowing Tabernacles from a friend who has a bunch of em, abyss isnt owned amongst our legacy group

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

If you're playing Pox "properly" your opponent is hellbent because you WANT them to be. Hard to play when you have no hand you see. This is why Rack builds can still work in a less aggro environment. 2 here and there? There's a name for that, it's called winning with a Prison deck. Prison means they can't do anything and you poke them to death. Want to kill them quicker? I've found a great way to do it. Play 2 threats that deal 2 damage. And play one BIG POX. You'll end the game in 3 turns if they played a single fetch land.

Funny thing, I didn't need to playtest the card to know this would happen in my aggro infested meta. :tongue: My advice for Death and Taxes? Don't use Massacre. Main deck a single Engineered Plague [name humans] or Night of Souls' Betrayal. When I fought death and taxes, either of those appearing meant insta-scoop for my hapless white mage foe.

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This is probably the most helpful advice I have heard for the deck. Our current setup for Sundays usually has a Burn player, Shardless BUG, D&T but he also has Miracles he sometimes plays or lends out, one player has several combo decks and RUG BUG Delver, Goblins, Elves, MUD, OmniTell, and Sneak and Show. I still want to do more with Waste Not before I make a decision for NJ. Thank you sir! :laugh:

its good to have the abyss, whether in the main or in the board..if you don't own any, night of soul's betrayal can take its place..its cheaper but certainly isn't weaker..in some matches, it can actually be better..if your meta is full of maverick, DnT, elves, goblins, delver variants, etc..i recommend a copy or two in the main..provides virtual card advantage making a lot of their cards uncastable dead draws..

if miracles starts showing up more often, you may try maindecking 1 or 2 copies of ratchet bomb or even pithing needle..i'm actually liking the idea of a singleton pithing needle in the main..i should give it a try..

@miccel

is this the list you're still running?:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12585&iddeck=92271

i see you have eschewed the hymns for more pinpoint discard in the form of thoughtseize..i think this boils down to preferrence, and i just love my hymns too much.. :tongue:
your lists looks tight, kinda reminds me of Shawn Riggin's list:

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/mag...aily/deck/1112

though i prefer your list because it has more threats..

have you tested trinisphere? i feel 3 voids in the 75 is a bit overkill; i feel 2 is a good number..besides, at 4 mana, you'd likely be casting it turn 2 except on occasional nut draws where you can power it out first turn via double dark ritual..how about replacing 1 of them with a trinisphere? or even sphere of resistance? they can come down faster..just my 2-cents..

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

@miccel

is this the list you're still running?:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12585&iddeck=92271

i see you have eschewed the hymns for more pinpoint discard in the form of thoughtseize..i think this boils down to preferrence, and i just love my hymns too much.. :tongue:
your lists looks tight, kinda reminds me of Shawn Riggin's list:

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/mag...aily/deck/1112

though i prefer your list because it has more threats..

have you tested trinisphere? i feel 3 voids in the 75 is a bit overkill; i feel 2 is a good number..besides, at 4 mana, you'd likely be casting it turn 2 except on occasional nut draws where you can power it out first turn via double dark ritual..how about replacing 1 of them with a trinisphere? or even sphere of resistance? they can come down faster..just my 2-cents..

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Thanks for your advices..
I've talking about hymns vs t seize a lot with Shawn and other poxers...yes, it seems dependant on your preference (and sure i love my hymns too) but with a smothed mana curve change a lot!
With Cc1 discard:
Better mana curve.
Better combo MU.
More turn1 plays.
More information about my opponent durning early game.
I can play "only" 11 swamps and use lands lile tabernacles/ports/mutavault without a lot of BB problems.

Hymn is hymn...i know...is't hard playing monoblack without them in fact sometimes i use to play my signed set.. ;-)

My current list:

11 swamp
4 urborg
4 factories
4 wasteland
2 tabernacles
1 mutavault

4 ritual
4 IoK
4 innocent blood
4 sinkhole
4 s pox
4 lilly
3 t seize
1 n spirit
2 n void
3 scrolls
1 crucible

SB

1 n void
2 p needle
2 chains of meph.
3 abyss
3 plagues
4 LotV

Switch between port and mutavault to have an extra threat not affected by the abyss post side, and against a surgical/needle on my win cons...but i like port as 1 of in pox...

Yeah 2+1 voids are too much...but i love them!
Void kills combo burn and helps against control/counter decks.
Void is the only lockout stuff that decay can't fight.
Void turn 2 can sometimes wins alone...i play 26 lands (without fetches)...only lands.deck have more lands than me...
With void in play i can "cast & counter" my own useless spells and empy my hand easy for scrolls...
Cc4 is good and bad...with less than 25 lands i would not playing with 3 voids...
Nether void is old school ;-)

Other arctifact lock pieces are good...i've played trini last year..but void is the best! (Imho)

I like 1 p needle or 1 plague MD...but i've no place now...maybe in crucible slot...but crucible can sometimes wins games...i don't know...

24 I will play a LQ with monoblack version.
In the last tournament I attended, the field consisted of many Sneak and Show, Belcher, Hypergenesis, Reanimator, Elves, UR Delver, Dredge and Big Red.
Last time I went with the following side:

2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Engeneered Plague
2 extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spinning Darkness
3 Relic of Progenitus

It did not help me much in that tournament.
This way, can someone help me with a side for this field?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

24 I will play a LQ with monoblack version.
In the last tournament I attended, the field consisted of many Sneak and Show, Belcher, Hypergenesis, Reanimator, Elves, UR Delver, Dredge and Big Red.
Last time I went with the following side:

2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Engeneered Plague
2 extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spinning Darkness
3 Relic of Progenitus

It did not help me much in that tournament.
This way, can someone help me with a side for this field?

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i honestly don't know what went wrong..your sideboard seems to cover all decks that you mentioned, except maybe belcher, because you don't have any sphere or void effects to permanently lock them out but then again you have discard main..

how did they "not help you in the tournament"? did you not draw them? did your opponent counter them or destroyed them?

details, details.. :cool:

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

i honestly don't know what went wrong..your sideboard seems to cover all decks that you mentioned, except maybe belcher, because you don't have any sphere or void effects to permanently lock them out but then again you have discard main..

how did they "not help you in the tournament"? did you not draw them? did your opponent counter them or destroyed them?

details, details.. :cool:

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Sorry have not given more information. rs
I believe 4 Engeneered Plague is too much for my field.
Missed more extirpates and pithing needle to stop Grisels.
Ensnaring Bridge was too slow against Reanimators, Hypergenesis and sometimes even against Sneak and Show. Usually I tried to put in play but was countered.
Spinning Darkness was a waste of slot.
I feel completely helpless against dredge.

My games were:

Sneak and Show 2 x 1 Pox
Reanimator 2 x 1 Pox
Pox 2 x 0 UR Delver
Hypergenesis 2 x 0 Pox
Dredge 2 x 0 Pox

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I feel completely helpless against dredge.

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I think that Waste Not is very important in this matchup and improves it quite a bit.
Try to mulligan aggressively into a hand with hate or Waste Not.

Here's my current list:

MD:
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Waste Not (perhaps 4 is too much)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Innocent Blood
1 Dismember (for creatures with flash like Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique and animated lands)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Toxic Deluge (helps a lot against decks that try to overwhelm you with creatures like Affinity/tribal decks or cards like Empty the Warrens, Lingering Souls and Young Pyromancer that are very troublesome for Pox)
1 Nether Spirit
2 Cursed Scroll

3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
7 Swamp

SB:
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Engineered Plague
2 Cabal Therapy (nice synergy with Waste Not)
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate

My current deck:



1 Nether Spirit
2 Tombstalker

2 Bojuka Bog
2 Cabal Pit
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
7 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nether Void
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Spinning Darkness

@ Bruno

Dredge is one the worst matchup for Pox as you realized, but it is still winnable

I beat dredge last tourney with Prison Pox. I lost game 1 without playing anything.
When he casted Cabal therapy I conseded. No information for him on what I was on.

My SB was

4x Leyline of the void
3x Engineered Plague
3x Ensnaring bridge
3x Pithing needle (that's a lot, I replaced one with spinning darkness for the burn matchup)
2x Trinisphere

LotV, Plague and Bridge went in.
I mulligan until I have the void. (Pox is dead anyway without any hate against dredge anyway, so why not play Void !)
Inquisition his Chains of vapor/nature claims or cantrip.
Destoy their land.
Put the lock piece into play each turn. Nail that coffin!
I play 2x Night of Souls' Betrayal Main board. This in play + a Engineered plague on zombie is probably game.

LotV should buy enough time to put lock piece into play.

If not, 2x extirpate/surgical on ichorid and bridge is game for you, but you need 2 in hand real quick.

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Originally Posted by coricho

@ Bruno

Dredge is one the worst matchup for Pox as you realized, but it is still winnable

I beat dredge last tourney with Prison Pox. I lost game 1 without playing anything.
When he casted Cabal therapy I conseded. No information for him on what I was on.

My SB was

4x Leyline of the void
3x Engineered Plague
3x Ensnaring bridge
3x Pithing needle (that's a lot, I replaced one with spinning darkness for the burn matchup)
2x Trinisphere

LotV, Plague and Bridge went in.
I mulligan until I have the void. (Pox is dead anyway without any hate against dredge anyway, so why not play Void !)
Inquisition his Chains of vapor/nature claims or cantrip.
Destoy their land.
Put the lock piece into play each turn. Nail that coffin!
I play 2x Night of Souls' Betrayal Main board. This in play + a Engineered plague on zombie is probably game.

LotV should buy enough time to put lock piece into play.

If not, 2x extirpate/surgical on ichorid and bridge is game for you, but you need 2 in hand real quick.

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An other way to fight dredge...LotV+ palgue(horror)+tabernacle, and than any lockout effect like void...
G1 is impossible!

Not quite. You can still try race him. It can be done vs burn using the rack etc.
This depend on your turn one starting hand of course. Note that in this scenario you should NOT be afraid of casting pox.

A friend of mine, while not playing Pox, always says that he NEVER took out Hymn against Dredge. His reasoning was that Dredge always needs to discard certain cards, and Hymn just is a pain in the ass. Well, I always thought this is really weird, but he managed to top 60 the GP Paris this year, beating Dredge one or two times if I'm not mistaken. My question to you guys: do you agree with this reasoning, or not?