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Matt,
I noticed that between your list this week and your list last week, you've turned Taiga into a fetch and Slaughter Games into Cranial Extraction. Any particular thoughts on the switch?
Also, any reason you run two plains over say a 4th forest for Scooze? We don't usually cast more than one white spell in a turn, and we have Savannah/Karakas in the deck as well.
Against some decks depending on fetch order, you want two plains. Many times you will grab a single plains off a fetch or the first Vet, then want a second later especially for Sigarda. Sigarda mana is incredibly crucial, and there have been more than a few instances of the second Vet grabbing double plains and slamming Sigarda. Also, for the mana ratios, two plains is correct, last I checked.
Im off Games just due to not liking Wolf Run and fetching off colour. Against Miracles, it was somewhat awkward to have fetch Taiga and sometimes nut yourself off colour. I really do like Games, I just wonder if I truly need the uncounterability, or just the effect itself. I think if I ran more DRS, like a 3/3 split, I could justify running it moreso.
So... I was wondering about sideboards. I'm having a rather hard time fighting ANT. My plan was to have a sideboard somewhere along the lines of this as an anti Storm package (yes, it's 12 slots even though I'm on the fence about Carpets for this particular MU):
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Rule of Law
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Faerie Macabre
In my main I run 4 Cabal Therapy and, funnily enough, 4 copies of Diabolic Intent (so I basically have n+4 silver bullets in the deck post board). The idea here is having as many angles as possible to piss on TES/ANT's parade.
The question I have is will this be sufficient to tilt the MU in my favor post-board?
Play a one-of Dryad militant or a 2-of. Along with Teeg/canonist, you should feel more comfortable against TES/ANT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
It would also add some collateral damage to the current "delve" hype.
Two birds, one stone.
I tried that for the longest time (and failed miserably). It only gets the TES/ANT guy to ignore his PiF-route and just straight-up obliterate me. I want to get him to slow down, try to go for the PiF-route and only then wipe his yard/exile the tutors he needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Well, there is no better option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Shutting down the PIF plan and forcing them to go the ADN route is the best option.
Not to mention that you catch "cabal ritual" & "cabal therapy" non sense along the way...
A competent storm player who knows the Nic Fit MU will usually call "GSZ" on their first therapy.
Having access to 1 Teeg, 1 Canonist 2 Dryad + 4 GSZ, post board guarantee you (>70%) to have a hatebear either on your opening hand or on the first two turns.
Unless your meta is full of storm players, I won't over commit into this MU.
Lol, yeah they do. I don't play the regular Nic Fit build though. I'm the nut that posted the Timmy Nic Fit list a couple of pages ago. So in my case that would be 4 bears + 4 Diabolic Intent (which when feeded a Veteran Explorer cast on turn 1 does much the same on T2). I must admit I have horrible luck with the MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Unfortunately, Diabolic intent < GSZ when it comes to play against storm because you need:Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
- a creature T1 (green mana)
- a diabolic intent T2 (black mana)
That's a lot of prerequisites against such a hard MU.
Odds are against you and I guess luck has nothing to do here...
We're a slow, non-blue control deck. This is already not good.
Past in Flames is their easiest kill, and Deed ensure they cannot Empty profitably. Forcing them down the AdN route is the way to go.
Once Display of Dominance becomes more of a card, this should be easier since we can protect Teeg from Chain of Vapour and Abrupt Decay. For now, maybe try a 1-of Ichneumann Druid?
-Matt
Playing Safekeeper is asking to play Titania, as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
1) Perfect synergy with keeper / karakas
2) Double up your hate vs Emrakul G1 (karakas + Titania)
I think she could easily replace one of your Rhino.
I've been doing some testing against ANT and I can tell you that Scooze is a powerhouse. It eats up all of their stupid PiF gas and beats their life away to make their Ad Nauseum worse. Of course surviving that long is tricky, so SB Thoughtseize and Surgical come in. SE is so good even on turn 0, you can sometimes cause a PiF blowout (unless they just Rit Rit Rit Tutor etc.).
I really like the Rule of Law idea, but they can actually play through it. Also bear in mind, your life total matters significantly in the matchup. They often sap you for 18-20 life, and if you can somehow slam a Rhino or Tusk by the time they combo off you're in a good position.
My list:
4x veteran explorer
1x deathrite shaman
1x sylvan safekeeper
1x scavenging ooze
1x eternal witness
3x siege rhino
1x thrun
1x sigarda
1x titania
3x path
3x abrupt decay
3x cabal therapy
1x diabolic intent
1x maelstrom pulse
3 green sun
1x toxic deluge
2x garruk relentless
3x sylvan library
2x pernicious deed
1x recurring nightmare
Got 6th with this list at a local 15 person event. Siege rhino with recurring is a blowout. I'll keep it short as I'm at work.
G1: mud. The deck I didn't want to play against. I got 2 -0 from abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, eternal witness, and recurring with rhino both games.
G2: Painted stone. Lost 0 -2. Got beat down with painters because 6 red blast spells countered and destroyed everything. I got it out of him that he wasn't playing 8, so 6/7 blasts from his deck were drawn.
G3: merfolk. My friend came with me. 1 - 1 - 1. He put me as 2-1 because I was ahead. Lost first match from 2 true name and phantasmal true name. Boarded in golgari charm and took out his threats. Followed with siege rhino to run through his nemesis. Third was looking bad. Ran to time.
G4: esper deathblade. Don't even want to talk about it. Lost 0 - 2. He flashed in containment priest to my green sun x=4. :(
Well it was a great time since it's been a year without playing legacy and first with nic fit.
Discard + miltant and teeg is the way to go to solve the storm matchup. Pif is their crutch kill ad nauseam has a much lower chance of going off once you're pressureing their life total. If you can get a decay extracted you are in good shape most players are on 3 decay two massacres once decay is gone teeg is a hard lock. Mull aggressively to double hate hands a decent six will get you killed if your only interaction is a discard spell. I bring in 3 Thoughtseize 1 teeg 1 militant 2 extractions 2 carpets 1 g charm and 2 needles. Boarding out 6 removal 2 deed sigarda two explorers and batterskull
You may want to consider Memoricide/Cranial Extraction. I'm really tempted to suggest Sadistic Sacrament, but 3 black is pretty steep. It would absolutely make the game unwinnable for the Storm player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I have a few qualms with your plan for storm. First of all I would not bring in the pithing needles every time, I probably wouldn't bring it in period, the only card they consistently stop is sensei's divining top which is not a very common choice a lot of the time. It might be able to stop fetch lands but any experienced storm player knows how to play through mana, and that is backed with daze, spell pierce, etc. Bottom line is that Pithing Needle will not do a whole lot, I'd actually rather have deed to sweep up any artifact mana they cast to play around discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
I also don't like extracting the abrupt decays, I would rather use my discard on tutors, mana, tendrils and cantrips and extract (in order of importance) tendrils/burning wish, then tutors, cantrips and mana.
Since Nic Fit is a green sun's zenith deck and is primarily BG I would not bring in Massacre as a Storm player. Firstly, you can play around it pretty well as Nic Fit if you just don't play a plains (pretty easy a lot of the time against storm) and your primary hate bear is Gaddock Teeg. If it were Maverick or D&T I would bring it in but since Nic Fit, or even Junk Blade, will not have the same amount, or the same type (thalia, canonist), of hate bears Massacre is a lot weaker. Since Gaddoct Teeg is the primary concern and Nic Fit doesn't play Mother of Runes, and doesn't usually play Canonist and Thalia, I will leave massacre in the board. Also since Nic Fit relies heavily on discard I want my Ad Nauseams to be as live as possible, another reason I don't want a 4 mana sweeper that isn't very impactful against Nic Fit. I will however board in a mixture of Abrupt Decays and Chain of vapors (usually 4 in a 2/2 split) which makes extracting the decays look even worse. I also don't like part of your plan being to play dryad militant with surgical extraction and discard. I would rather just have another scavenging ooze, more discard or another extraction.
Maybe because im on the stoneforge plan my storm opponents are misboarding against me or putting me on maverick. I still have some deeds in after board as well as two golgari charms. Needling a fetch is better then dieing with a batterskull or sigarda in hand its not the best hate sure but its an upgrade over dead non interactive cards. If I see my opponent bring in more then four cards ill usually leave the needles out amd bring in pulse and grip instead putting them on leylines. As far as more discard im already playing eight I wouldnt go any higher then that. Another extraction effect is debatable in that slot but having gsz live as hate @2 in the dredge and storm matches is not something i see me changing. As far as extrating goes it really depends whats in the yard if I have the option to take a tutor or led im gonna take it. I haven't had any issues with the matchup its definetly winable. Militant is great I stand by it she won both the dredge and the storm matches for me in baltimore last month.
Came 5th in a tournament for Staples, losing to TES in the quarters. I did get to Siege Rhino him out of the game in Game 2, so all hope was not lost.
I'll post a tournament report tomorrow.
-Matt
Top 4'd a Super IQ today (71 people)
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize (expected more combo so moved these to the main)
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Eternal Witness
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Batterskull
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:
1 Ashen Rider
2 Containment Priest
1 Cornered Market
1 Council’s Judgment
1 Dryad Militant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Golgari Charm
1 Humility
1 Night of Souls’ Betrayal
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Beat ANT in 3.
Beat Maverick in 2.
Beat BUG delver in 2.
Beat RUG delver in 3.
Beat Sneak/show in 3.
Got paired to play ANT and won in 3.
ID (top seed for me)
Beat my buddy playing Mono-red Sneak Attack. He turn ones a blood moon and chalice for one. I still win the game. Win the match in 3.
Split the top 4. Play for the invite.
Lost to infect in 2. I had him down to two with a jitte in play but I couldn't find a threat or GSZ for my 2nd rhino to kill him. Mulled to 6 but keep plenty of discard but lose to double vines when I try to abrupt decay an elf.
Oh well. $200.
@everyone: Thanks for the sideboarding tips, they're much appreciated.
I guess I have some work to do on the MB as well. Looking at the lists posted here, I'm pondering whether I should take out 3 DRS and a Fierce Empath to facilitate a full set of GSZ to bump the Vet Ex count up to 8, but that's something for me to try out. I do wonder, however, if the GSZ's wouldn't make the deck too slow/light on 1-drops.
I gave up on the BUG Pod deck after they printed Containment Priest, but for those still interested in it, Minister of Pain is a huge addition. It's as good as an Orzhov Pontiff but you don't have to add a color (which negates the potential benefit). Actually it's probably better because it has a bigger body and is a sac outlet for Veteran Explorer.