So...6-0 at scg seattle. On Camera.
With a pretty pimped out deck.
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So...6-0 at scg seattle. On Camera.
With a pretty pimped out deck.
I just like how we've seen nothing revolutionary, just the same deck no one (including me) thought was good enough to continue playing.
Me and my buddy were talking about it, and it seemed like Vial was pretty terrible. Maybe it's just that MU, but honestly it seems like you just want more threats.
I've seen this guy play at a bunch of locals and lost to him at the open. He's been playing the deck for a long time with reasonable success (despite owning good decks), so I guess it can't be straight terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
When I played against him, the Vials were absolute nightmares. I was playing Grixis Delver and it made my attacks and blocks just impossible because it forced you to play around both removal and pump, which leads to very bad trades and race math.
Does anyone have a link to the video? Or know his list?
Its actually the first match of the 6 hour vid.
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/472045409
and his list.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=59976
Creatures (21)
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
Lands (20)
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
Spells (19)
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Rest in Peace
3 Envelop
4 Path to Exile
4 Spell Pierce
Wow. This list is....super standard. I mean, the obvious inclusion of Galerider over Winged and the addition of Predatory Sliver aside, it's pretty much cut-and-paste what I used to play back in the day. And here even I thought this deck wasn't playable, anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
To this guy--------^
What brand of drugs are you on? Please, I would love to know. More importantly, where can I buy them! Sorry bud, just joking around.
Myself, as well as a few lingering members of "Team info-ninja" have tested the uses of vial in this deck for years. It's quite useful. When used in conjunction with Crystaline Sliver it acts as a counter spell when one of your slivers is targeted. With the mana curve of the deck's creatures you set it at two and watch your side of the field grow...QUICKLY. We have been using that coupled with cavern of souls in place of mutavault. Reason being is the only way to stop our creatures from getting bigger, aside from non-targeted removal, is by countering them. Concerning vial, we have been kicking around what the right number of them should be. We are currently stuck at ether 3-4. Multiples mid to late game they are horrible but you always want to have one as soon as possible.
Again, with my opening comment, it was a joke only. Not trying to start a flame war.
Im just saying. Maybe it was just the MU that I watched (vs Shardless) but both games that he had a vial, it seemed like he would just have been better off with more threats. I honestly do not see why you would want to cut Mutavault in this deck though. It seems INSANE. I mean not only do your lords pump it, but you can make it a dude in response to wasteland with a crystaline on board to protect it. I just was looking at Vial as a slow card disadvantage artifact that doesnt really do too much in here that you really need. I have no experience with the deck, those were just mine and my buddies observations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
Pinder, you jerk. Never call or write anymore....I feel abandoned.
Another little trick we have been using is Phantasmal Image. It gives your critters a bigger boost when copying one of you muscle type slivers. Also comes in handy when dealing with Emrakal shenanigans or what ever opposing creature worth copying. Works really well with Crystaline too.
Reason my list doesn't run the "Vault" is that they are horrible when you're trying to stabilize your mana base. Sure it acts as another creature, one that you have to pay for EVERY time you want to use it. I personally would rather have a stable mana base so I can keep my threats coming down. You can't always rely on Super Sliver (crystaline) to be around. It then becomes a non-color producing land that has "waste me" written all over it. I'd rather shift my focus on making things less waste-able to being more resilient in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I'n not an expert of this deck , but looking at the recent list my first thought is that there aren't enough creatures. 21 creatures + mutavault is not enough in my opinion, and make the deck extremely dependant on cristalline sliver to avoid removal. For sure i would play 4x phantasmal image, and also i don't understand why a deck like this don't use cavern of souls.... i mean, mana of any color to cast slivers and make them uncounterable.
I would agree with this. This seems like it would like play out like a merfolk deck if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCop 90
Holy ish. This deck did good? Pinder is alive? The sky is falling!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
I would use the term "playing" loosely Pinder. You did a lot more losing than actual playing and yes there is a difference. Just saying..
Lets look at what this deck has going for it.
It's fast with potentially untargetable creatures.
It has the Tempo plan with the inclusion of the proper cards.
It has removal options and counter options.
Lets not forget that the Sliver utility creatures affect all of them.
Why aren't more people giving this a look? It's potentially a better version of Merfolk.
It is greedier in the mana and color requirements departments than Merfolk. Merfolk arguably has a better end game with Reejerey and TNN (also a better combo early game with Cursecatcher). Those are my thoughts. I do like this deck. It was one of the first that I began to learn Legacy by playing. I am just not sure that it is quite there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jankwolf
a 2cc Sliver-Meddling Mage and a 2cc Sliver-"opponent's cards can't make you sacrifice anything" would make this deck come back.
This deck has 0 strategy against combo and it requires 4 lords to deal 1-1 with a Tarmogoyf..
Isn't the deck's strategy against combo the same as Merfolk: counter it out? It is less consistent though because you will have less blue cards to pitch to force (is it played?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
The strategy vs. Goyf would be to ignore it and fly over the bastard. Well, what if you whalegider/whatever it is called sliver gets removed? It should hopefully be much harder, given your guys have shroud. Except, obviously, that is not guaranteed at all, because there are only 4 in the deck. So it is a back-forth. I like the deck a lot and I've always had a huge fondness for slivers and would love to play a good sliver deck in a local tournament. But the comparisons to Merfolk can't be avoided, and they shouldn't be, lessons can be learned I think.
Why I love it: I love that you can give your team shroud for 2cc. Compared to Merfolk, it has access to brainstorm which it can use as a viable addition because the mana base is already greedy, whereas with Merfolk it is simply not worth it to open yourself to blood moon effects and the like. You have THREE 2cc lords, which is huge. Your slivers have flying, which would fix the folk's weakest matchups, which are things like Elves which we can't simply goldish and win. I'd much rather have flying than islandwalk for that reason, even though you will hit decks that can't sometimes block.
What makes me skeptical: I actually think that the sliver most missing compared to Merfolk is a variation on silvergill, which is arguably the best creature in the deck. Replacing himself with a 2/1 body is absolutely huge. THIS is the card I want to see for counterslivers, it need more card advantage. It is less consistent than Merfolk because it lacks the same redundancy, so it needs the brainstorm even more. The deck also doesn't reward you for playing TNN, whereas with Merfolk they now have a mini progenitus that they can pump without equipment. It doesn't have the same consistency to pitch to FoW. And cursecatcher is just amazing, because it is so relevant in legacy, it time warps your opponents and forces them to play around, buying you time and more potential counters. Slivers lack counters and so it has a weaker match-up to combo. Merfolk can also protect their team with other cards if they wish (such as Kira).
I'm simply saying that Merfolk has just better matchups than this.
Unless they print a sliver Meddling Mage (for Terminus and combo) and an "unsacrificable" sliver to totally lock our board. But that wouldn't help in the merfolk matchup because they have just unbloackable creatures and 12-16 lords.
we have 12 2cc lords. ok. they have 8 and theirs are pitchable to FoW and Misdirection.
But then Slivers has flying and 2cc shroud in their tribe. That is pretty big, actually. Flying and shroud rocks. The bad match-ups that Merfolks have would be fixed if their lords gave them flying instead, and shroud was more viable than Kira. The pitching to FoW is a huge boon for Merfolk though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I think that, if they had a blue sliver equivalent of Silvergill, that would be enough to make the deck more viable. I'd go:
CREATURES
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Silvergill Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
SPELLS
4 Ęther Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Brainstorm
LAND (up for serious debate)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Wasteland