Just call it 4c good stuff/4c lock/4c no blue or something like that.... no need to complicate
Printable View
Just call it 4c good stuff/4c lock/4c no blue or something like that.... no need to complicate
Those aren't names, they're descriptions, and not even very accurate ones. The deck isn't really a goodstuff deck; it's very much built around synergy. It's also not a prison deck, although with Chalice, Liliana and two recurring control elements it does come close.
I really like Dump Truck; it sound cool. Bulldozer kinda implies something with Helldozer or Taurean Mailer, and also it doesn't sound as good in my opinion.
If my prison deck classification is voted down, I suggest calling it "Landlock" which is simple and fairly descriptive.
But for now I stand by Punisher.
Damn. I could get behind this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
Dump Truck.dec has existed in Extended before and it runs blue. I don't think you can call this Dump Truck.
I think the chances of this deck being confused for some extended deck are pretty low.
We could also add an adjective on the front. Not the biggest fan of 'Punishing Dump Truck' but it is an option.
Seriously? Punishing Blue is such a horrible name, and isn't descriptive of the deck at all. As some have pointed out it just sounds like a blue control deck with Punishing Fire. Lock’n’Lands is pretty cruddy too, it sounds forced…all of this whole thing sounds forced and feels like Phillip and Niklas care more about making a name for themselves than the actual article itself. It’s still Aggro Loam, and bears enough similarities to deck design philosophy of the early builds to keep the name.
Dammit.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
I do agree that "Punishing Blue" is a terrible name though. I'll probably either stick with writing down "Kronberger Special" on my decklists or try to hype up "Hoogland's Folly".
If you believe it bears enough similarities, you clearly do not play with the deck. Or you just have no clue on what you are doing....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
The deck doesn't want to aggro out and clearly does not need loam to operate.
I agree all names seem forced and what not but I also believe the deck should not be aggro loam.
"Kronberger Special" + "Hoogland's Folly" = Special Folly!!! WhorrayQuote:
Originally Posted by iamajellydonut
Gosh darn it, you got me. I've clearly demonstrated that I've never played the deck and have no idea what I'm doing. Good job officer, keep at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilhas
Please correct me if I'm wrong (not being sarcastic, I would like to know), but didn't the deck originate from Extended? Green beaters + Crusher with Loam and Seismic Assault. I will admit, that's a very different deck to this one. That's slowly morphed into what we have today, and while different, has kept its name throughout. If taken literally, sure...you may have a point. But should we take every ridiculous name in Legacy seriously? Of course not, we'd be running around headless. My main point is that this shell has been known as Aggro Loam for long enough, a name change isn't needed.
I dunno...I've played non-blue decks for a while quite fervently, aggro loam included, and I just feel like this is an already established archetype that has simply been underappreciated since Khans. Now with a 'breakout' tournament, people are more concerned with stamping their name on it, rather than taking it forward. Why didn't Niklas ever bring up the name before? He's always come across as a pretty genuine guy in interviews etc, so I have this feeling it's more the work of Phillip.
I will say, I'm 110% behind Hoogland's Folly!
As much as I would like to see the Kronberger Special with a fun name, the above statement is the reason I'm still willing to accept being called "Aggro Loam" or "4c Loam".Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
People should stop wasting their time thinking about a name for the deck. It is nearly impossible that everyone will agree on a name. Just copy Philips article, replace every "Punishing Blue" with whatever you like to call it, and read it again. A name does not win you tournaments. Better start practising "Aggro Loam" ;)
Wait until starcity has someone top 8 an event with it. I think we're going to see" 4-Color Loam Control"...if we are lucky! :-)
Ages ago before crusher existed. We rode a terravore after devastating dreams, and a chalice on 1. It was aggro loam then and creature count is about the same as now.
No need for a new name
Has anyone tried Trinisphere in the sideboard to combat Omnitell? As opposed to hate cards that use the stack, it shuts down any and all Omniscience shenanigans they might have unless they already have them in hand with at least three mana available. No Wish for instant kill in response to Sage triggers; no free bounce, no free Emrakul through Thalia (one particularly bitter memory from my Maverick days). I'm not sure how many we would need or what it would replace though; on the whole, a sideboarding guide for the most popular matchups would be greatly appreciated.
Trinisphere works, but if you're just looking for things to toss in off Show and Tell, Iona does the trick as well. Ethersworn Canonist, I imagine, would just work out to be the better card in almost every circumstance. It's cheaper (for matchups where you're not sandbagging it till they cast Show and Tell), it has legs, and it doesn't bone our own plan. All of those are very relevant considerations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
I do love Trinisphere though. So, if you can make it into a reality, I'd be thrilled, but I can't currently imagine just jamming Trinisphere into the sideboard and having it pull its weight.
Iona doesn't stop them from simply casting Emrakul, but I see your point on Canonist.
As a deck that banks on Mox Diamond, Canonist is arguably the best card to run against storm stuff, especially omni/tell. iamajellydonut mentioning canonist having legs is relevant as well.
I don't think Trinisphere is necessarily needed, as much as it's a home-run play. Same for Iona.
Hey thread, this is super late (was out of town all last week) but I took this deck to the last monthly Legacy tournament at ChannelFireball.
So, in the week leading up to the event I first played a Storm deck at a small local. Out of 13 players, 12 were on blue (with the remaining player on D&T) so I thought perhaps my deck choice was very bad. I decided to try out a Chalice deck, so at the next local I ran this. I sit down opposite Miracles in R1 and proceed to crush (Slaughter Games is actually really good when naming Monastery Mentor!). I'm feeling good about the deck, but proceed to be paired the following two rounds against midrangey green decks. In my third round, for instance, I played against Nic Fit... Is there any way we can beat a Sigarda? It just seems impossible to me!
I am undeterred, and decide that since CFB is typically dominated by Delver, Miracles and Stoneforge strategies this deck is still a good choice. I proceed to get trolled by DCI reporter...
R1
I go to time against Merfolk, and lose in extra turns. Not a lot to say here. It's really difficult to play well when you're super conscious of going to time! Definitely could have won this, I feel (Punishing Fire is insane in this M/U it seems).
0-1
R2
Monored burn. I sigh to myself when I see a Lava Spike while my opponent is shuffling. I lose 8 life from a Dark Confidant in G1. He has Price of Progress. Game 2 he has Price of Progress.
0-2
At this point I'm out of contention and would drop, but I decide to try to get more practice with the deck so I stay in.
R3
RGW Burn. Is this real, DCI Reporter? My opponent has a bad draw after mulliganing but he has two Price of Progress so I lose. Game 2 is similar.
I am pretty demoralised by now after having some complete non-games. But I decide to get more practice still since my friends I traveled with are all x-0
R4
U/R. G1 I make a t1 chalice off diamond. His deck is full of Delvers, Swiftspears, Bolts and cantrips, so I am feeling pretty good. I proceed to draw no way to actually close out the game for a long time and we just sort of carry on. What complicates things is that he draws 3 Price of Progress, so wins without casting any other spell (literally). G2 I kill a Goblin Guide and get out a Sylvan Library and am at a reasonable life total. My opponent just casts two Price of Progress on his turn.
I am now fully demoralised and drop to watch my friends play. What's the moral of the story here? Don't lose the first round of a tournament, otherwise you'll be put into the Price of Progress bracket :(
watQuote:
Originally Posted by cdnza
That's ridiculous. Merfolk is definitely a good matchup, but you got absolutely rolled for the rest of it. Reminds me of the gent who went 0-3 drop against Burn at GP Lille. Rounds one and two are definitely the most important regardless of what deck you run. Getting stuck in the dregs where Burn and Dragon Stompy lurk definitely leads to a death knell.
Anyway, to make this post actually constructive, you can usually manage to play around a fair Price of Progress. It can of course sneak up and give you a boot square in the buttocks, but usually simple stuff like keeping defensive Wastelands open and prioritizing the basic Forest are enough to keep you safe against blowouts.
I tried Trinisphere for a bit. Fun fact, the opponent can cast Dig Through Times though Trinisphere. Anyway, Canonist is just better unless they have no digs and a pyroclasm. Tho I'd actually argue for holding the first canonist. The deck has plenty of interaction that you can be playing out Thalia, Teeg, Chalice, w.e and all the bears lose to a single clasm so if the board already has 2 pieces of hate and a threat I'd keep the canonist/3ball/thalia in hand.
Burn is definitely a matchup I suggest people sit down and jam for a couple hours. IMO keeping a hand without chalice and one that requires more than 2 non-wasteland non-basics in play usually incorrect. Card advantage should not matter so feel free to mull to whatever too. Mox, Fetch, Dual, Chalice is stronger than Savannah, Knight, Zenith, Library, Wasteland, Loam, Thicket or whatever.
One of my opponents even boarded in (and then proceeded to cast) multiple Smash to Smithereens O_O
Yeah, that'll uh... That'll happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnza
Your best bet against Burn continues to be victory by intimidation and blackmail.
It almost sounds like chalice on 2 is better than chalice on 1. Managing both sounds ideal.
Beat Elves in a match with this deck for the first time ever last night. Feels real good lads.
Just don't get discouraged... One time against burn, they price of progressed me, I hydroblasted it and they responded with another price of progress for....22. I've been banefired out of enchantress for exact after starting an open 0-3. I've had my wurmcoil deflecting palmed to kill me when I blocked. All of these scenarios were very demoralizing. Sometimes people just have it!Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnza
Burn feels like a boogieman to me. No one admits they play it, I always seems to play against it once at a large event and no one enjoys loosing to it.
Hi all,
I've been playing the deck and loving it since schniggaz tore up Prague Eternal.
My success has been mixed. A disastrous first event, followed by some solid results. My main difficulty has been mulliganing correctly since many hands have the right colored mana sources and powerful cards, when in actuality there generally seems to be a specific combination of types of cards we need to not fall behind in the first turn or two.
Muliganing aside, there is one deck that I have just been repeatedly massacred by and have not been able to do well against. This enemy, who is uncomfortably popular around here, is R/G Lands. Multiple matches I have faced down turn 2 or turn 3 Marit Lage with no way to deal with even one token, let alone a second if they go for it again in a few turns if we didn't start with a leyline of the void in play.
From what I can tell, our game plan is to land a fast knight and then use Karakas, Wasteland, and Maze of Ith to either stopping the token entering the battlefield or by bouncing or fogging it when it does. The only problem is the later two options are soft to an opposing wasteland unless they are pulled up at instant speed by knight. I'm assuming a Slaughter Games on Life from the Loam makes things easier, but still, I am struggling.
Any advice for beating lands?
Also, in what match ups do you board Slaughter Games? So far I have been brining it in against Lands, Omni, and Miracles depending on their build. Is it generally correct to board games in vs. Miracles? Am I missing other decks?
Finally, I have been playing two Ethersworn Canonists in the board and no Thalias. What matchups would Thalia come in for? Do you all favor 2 of each, 2 of only one of them, or some other combination?
Thanks.
Does anyone have it built online? I'd love to see a video series. I couldn't find anything remotely recent on YouTube, but if anyone has a twitch link I'd be grateful.
Just played against lands last night and the match is pretty miserable. It's basically a lands mirror, just they have a combo and you don't. You need to put them in a position when they have to draw the combo. Sometimes they will just have it and turn 1 or 2 you...there's nothing you can avoid. At least they aren't Belcher!Quote:
Originally Posted by DaDitka
Otherwise make lands life miserable...
Add Leylines, slaughter games and reclaimation sage.
Take away Teeg (does nothing), punishing fires (you won't have time to win this way) and shave some lilianas.
Slaughter games their loam....
Don't forget slaughter games against ANT naming Tendrils! I also boarded it in against miracle/stoneblade. I have slaughter games'd away the batterskull that was searched out off of a stoneforge mystic so I didn't have to deal with it....
Missing the Lilis and do not feel like spending ~300$ on themQuote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilhas
If you would like to do a video series, i can borrow you the Lilis online :)
Actually, as a Landsplayer I had hard times beating this deck, especially game1. Played it twice in Lille, once against Christoph Alsheimer, lost both matches 1-2. Chalice locks out a lot, and KOTR / Scavenging Ooze hurt a lot. As you say, a quick token is the best scenario to win. But Lands isn't a dedicated combodeck, so a T2-3 token is not that frequent, as an ideal G1 opening hand consists of loam and exploration rather than the combopieces. Also, against an unknown opponent with (an open) white mana it's a risk to combo out early (StP sets Lands 2 landdrops back). So I presume your opponents know what you're playing, and keep combostrong hands against you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaDitka
An active Kotr (Karakas, or Wasteland in response to Depths' triggered ability) deals the token pretty well, until then I would delay combopossibilities with Wasteland or Karakas, or even bluff having a Swords in hand. It takes 4 lands/manasources to combo out EOT, so you should at least see it coming (a landsplayer not using his mana is a suspect thing).
Next two weeks I will be abroad on work but we will talk about this for sure :)Quote:
Originally Posted by schniggaz
That's why we should play 1 Depths and 1 Stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
I would say "that's terrible reasoning", but there's actually no reasoning present. Fact of the matter is that the only way you'd be able to successfully activate that combo against Lands is if you were already in a winning position.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Besides, they have more ways to wasteland you, port you and maze of ith you..... I don't believe is a good option at allQuote:
Originally Posted by iamajellydonut
Burn is ever present in my meta, and I can expect to see it in every serious event I play. I have one Zuran Orb in the sideboard at the moment and I'm seriously considering making room for a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamajellydonut
I'm so sorry for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobart
D:
Playing in a 1k today I'll post list n results
Hi guys, longtime lurker here, my favourite decks were different maverick variations and jund. Mav didn't use kotr to its fullest though and jund just wasn't anti-blue enough (my meta is exclusively miracles and blue decks). I ended up finding this deck which manipulates my favourite card to its fullest, thank you for designing this deck it's probably my favourite in legacy, or every format.
So on topic, here's my list; http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/4c-loam-dump-truck/ it's at a nice point now, the changes I'm considering are either removing a gsz for a confidant, or a glacial for a confidant and drs for a scooze as I've ran into the chalice=1 and drs nombo too many times and life gain is a nice upside. The reason I want to remove the gsz is that I just feel the need for card draw more often that not is better and going turn 1, tutor for dryad arbor is (however good) a frustrating play later on in the game when I can't use dryad arbor as an anti-liliana/combat trick.
I'm putting this deck together in paper slowly with the staples first and the the deviat's that vary from list to list, and when it is, I'll post reports and such.
Seriously this deck can do some wicked stuff, I won an Omnitel game this morning (xmage) by having a canno it's out and a kotr in hand and him playing show and tell, he drops emrakul, I drop my knight, he ends turn and I sac a taiga for karakas, he concedes. That's definitely 2nd in my favourite plays against show and tell, that card can really be a gamble sometimes
I played the list that top 8ed the GP with the following sideboard this weekend:
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Choke
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
Deck felt good to play, however I had problems with sideboarding against Mentor Miracles and Grixis control.
Against miracles, I was taking out 3 Punishing Fire, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Scavenging Ooze and 2 Life from the Loam and putting in 2 Slaughter Games, 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 1 Engineered Plague, 1 Choke, 1 Reclamation Sage and 1 Sulfur Elemental.
Against Grixis control, I was taking out 1 Deathrite Shaman, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Gaddock Teeg, 1 Scavenging Ooze and 2 Punishing Fire and putting in 3 Leyline of the Void, 1 Reclamation Sage, 1 Engineered Plague and 1 Choke.
I am pretty sure that I am not sideboarding correctly at all for these matchups, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!