[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate

2 Abrupt Decay

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library

3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

//sb
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Engineered Plague
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Slaughter Games
1 Krosan Grip
1 Tsunami
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm

This is what I'm looking at atm for Mythic this Saturday. The core is pretty similar to what I last shared, but I've changed some of the packages around because Meren will be legal.

Qasali beats Rec Sage now that Meren exists. We need another good value 2-drop, and moving the naturalize bro into that slot makes a lot of sense on many levels. Replacing Rec with Qasali requires cutting Diabolic Intent, which means that the 3rd Top needs to come back in. Meren wants more creatures, so Abzan Charm gets replaced with Courser, which in turn synergizes with the 3rd Top + Sylvan coming back in.

It was a hard road coming to this point, but I've finally cut Thragtusk. I think Thrag is still fine in a lot of versions -- but when you're slinging Rhinos, there's just no reason to run ole Tusk anymore. I'm really kind of saddened by that on a lot of levels, but that's the way things are now. Vindicate probably stands out a little, but it's actually for a pretty simple reason: Meren loses to 2 commonly played cards - Swords to Plowshares, which, let's be real, this entire deck demands being Swordsed -- and Karakas. I'm not going to run a Wasteland, so bringing back the old Vindicate makes a lot of sense here. Plus, Vindicate doubles at planeswalker removal, which can definitely be relevant at the moment.

Things I'm less happy with -- I want to find room for a 4th removal spell maindeck. It'll probably be a Maelstrom Pulse, although there's also the possibility of running a Deluge maindeck, or a singleton Abzan Charm. I'm also not sure if the Elspeth in the sideboard is actually where I want to be, or if I'd rather have another splash Miracles card that can actually function in more than just that matchup (E.Plague is a great example of this, since it shuts down Mentor while also being effective vs Elves, Young Pyro, and Dredge).

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Another possibility is also running a 1-of Batterskull like Vintage MUD. Good control element against Miracles, and with all our lands, it can be hard to beat. Plus, it can turn vets into threats, or it is a threat on its own. Win-win?

I agree with many of your points.

I almost agree. While Meren does like it when there are plenty of creatures to go around, she also plays incredibly well with Diabolic Intent. Especially when you can throw an Eternal Witness in the mix. Draw 2 cards a turn, one of which being the exact card you need every turn, anyone..?

Also, Meren, Phyrexian Tower and Eternal Witness would seem to be a nice value engine. Recurring PtE/whatever spotremoval or Painful Truths every turn also seems like a nice thing to do.

It's hard to pull off, but when doing so you should be able to pull ahead of whatever you're facing at that point in just a few turns. It pretty much puts the deck into overdrive.

I havent been playing nicfit for a bit while I have been on non-shardless bug midrange deck but this new Merelen looks like a nice value engine. I wonder if blue isnt a better spot for her though. Between recurring nightmare and merelen I would like to run all 4 strix as this is a draw engine most of the other colors will be harder to find. We also get things like glen elendra to help beef up our combo game.

I agree with Ralf in that when I was playing this I was looking for the tightest list possible. Its why I moved away from punishing version to blue version, as I think blue helps your worse matchups (fast combo and with things like bstorm to mitigate floods also with miracles games that go long). The tough part with the deck is that yes we "could" cast karn and that would probably win the game. BUT that opportunity cost is very high for things that cost even 5 or more. Its all about what you want to beat. Ralf sounds like he wants a more rounded 50/50 looking deck well others say if I play against TES whelp ok but as long as I hit blade, shardless and delver I crush.

Meren is released Friday I believe on mtgo so I will try it out after that point. I do believe it is better off in bug but i think moar rhino is in fact more better. I'm 4 force short of bug on mtgo but I will get them this weekend probably.
The bug list seems less powerful than junk but more value and added consistency. I have been playing the stock list but I cut trinket Mage package for 2 jtms and another decay.

Just came back from grand prix seattle and wanted to report on my list. I am budget constrained so my list has some gives for that reason but the list had overall success (I will give my final tally at the end for those that don't want spoilers).

I am not a long time legacy player but i have been playing mtg for 15 plus years and am fairly competitive, although i prefer limited over constructed. I wanted to build a list with lots of flexibility without to many cards that are weak on there own. For that reason (and budget reasons) I stuck with a simple 2 color build with lots of tutors and solid cards. I went for the full 4 living wish build and after discussing this with my friend, a much better deck builder than I, i limited my high end in the the deck and opted to put the finishers in the board. This would limit my bad starting hands and give me the flexibility of having 13 silver bullets in the board. After many round i realized that the 13 wasn't exactly what i needed but it did well most of the day.

Sry about that aside to the decklist!!

Lands:
5x Swamp
6x Forest
4x Windswept Heath
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Dryad Abor

The land base is simple and somewhat limited by budget. Having a ton of basics gives you natural resistance versus wasteland and being two colors I had limited issues all day (after 9 rounds) due to mana screw.

The 4's of:
4x Cabal therapy
4x Veteran Explorer
4x Living Wish
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Abrupt decay

Little to say here. Lots of tutoring, the nic fit combo and 4x abrupt decay (i feel is a given especially in b/g shell)

The 3 and 2's of:
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Hymn to Tourach
2x Sensei's Diving Top

I think the number of hymn and deed is just right, draw them when you need them and not too much in the late game. 2x top was somewhat due to budget but was enough for me the whole day.

The main deck bullets and such:
Zem bullets:
1x Eternal witness
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer

This should be very flexible depending on you meta. I tried to cover all my bases as much as i could due to the open nature of the grand prix.

Winner chicken dinner:
1x Thragtusk
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth

Titania was less awesome than she could have been due to the limited number of sac lands i had but still often won games by bring 10 or 15 damage out of nowhere.

Clean up slots:
1x Diabolic intent
1x Malestom pulse

These slots are likely up to the builder but served me well throughout the day

Sry bout my ranting here is the clean list:

G/B Nic Fits

Lands:
5x Swamp
6x Forest
4x Windswept Heath
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Dryad Abor

Spells-ish:
4x Cabal therapy
2x Sensei's Diving Top
1x Diabolic intent
4x Living Wish
4x Abrupt decay
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Malestom pulse
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Duders:
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Eternal witness
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Thragtusk
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth

Sideboard (all them bullets):
2x Engineered Plague
1x Yixlid Jailer
1x Mesmeric Fiend
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Plaguebearer
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Minister of Pain
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Ashen Rider
1x Bojuku Bog
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Thragtusk
1x Grave Titian

The sideboard performed very well for me with me pulling (or using) at least 13 or the 15 targets with my only dead slots being Yixlid and Mesmeric Fiend. I found Ashen Rider to be a dud versus show and tell as they can see it coming. After the tourney i replaced Ashen with Karakas to shore up my reanimator/ sneak and show match up.

There is a lot of flexibility here and this was the main reason i played this deck. The plan worked very well (as you'll see) if not perfectly.

I prepared for several months before the tourney and felt pretty solid versus everything except the fastest of combo decks. I ate some donuts and a breakfast sandwich and proceeded to round 1.

Round 1-Cody-Sneak and Show:
Game 1: He turn 2ed Gristlebrand and even though i was able to strip his hand of counters and resolve living wish i didn't have a SB card to deal with the big demon.

Game 2: A much slower game but he eventually stuck Tidespout Tyrant. He bounced all my things and i got rolled over. Again i wished but had no target....

0-1 Round 2-Maxwell-Infect:
Game 1: I stumbled with a slow hand and he killed me turn 3 or 4 with a berserk.

Game 2: He went all in on his land while i had deed in play. I deeded for zero and he lost several turn later

Game 3: He went turn 1 infect guy. I turn 1 cabal therapy for berserk, he had double invigorate and i lost on his turn 2.

0-2 Round 3-Jon-Infect: In order to get to day 2 i was going to need to go 7-0 from here on. I put on my hard hat and went to work

Game 1: He mulliganed and had a slow start. More than enough time for me to get the shields up and i stripped his hands with discard to put him out of the game completely.

Game 2: Early discard and removal bought me the time early. Despite that he had 2 turn to draw pump for the win but i was able to pull it out on 9 poison counters.

1-2 Round 4-Emily-Death and Taxes
Game 1: This was an epic 47 minute slug fest with her gaining life to above 40 and me deeding the board several times. I made the mistake of letting batterskull stick around too long and it nearly cost me the game. I was able to swing for 20 plus damage on the final turn (grave titan leading the charge) the turn she would have killed me with her pro black/green double striker. I used all 4 wishes and green sun's so many times that i only had explorers left in my deck!

Game 2: Never happened, it went to time before she finished sideboarding. I let her know about the time and a judge was standing next to me but she casually sided in and out until time was called.

2-2 Round 5-Sam-Death and Taxes: Fatigue was real after the last match but I learned a ton about the D&T matchup and was ready to go.
Game 1: Sam beat me down to 4 with a Jitte wielding Brimaz but I was able to tutor up a rec sage into Kruphix and stabilize from there. I ended the game at 15, went to kill his Brimaz (which he bounced) into cabal therapy hitting 2 Brimaz.

Game 2: I was now feeling very comfortable with this matchup and was able to lock down his equipment with double rec sage. Again he beat me down to 9 but i was able to stabilize back to 17.

3-2 Round 6-Kevin-Death and Taxes
Game 1 and 2: My experience served me well and i was able to easily 2-0 my opponent despite his best efforts. What i learned was to kill batterskull no matter what and hold onto the therapies to catch stoneforged equipment. This matchup seemed very much in my favor which is not a surprise as Nic Fit works around everything that death and taxes is trying to punish. He can't mana lock you, he can't out creature you, and you are able to cabal therapy the stone forge before he gets to drop his sweet equipment.

4-2 Round 7-Kevin (different guy)-Elves
Game 1: I was able to speed out a pernicious deed for an early board clear. Later in the game I wished for Minister of pain and erased all hope of him wining. An aside, always always cabal for glimpse of nature in this match.

Game 2: I kept a hand with and engineered plague. I was able to grab a glimpse early (seeing a natural order and progenitus in hand), and he started to go off turn 3 with 2 green sun's for symbiotic duders but ended the turn hitting me for 1. I cast plague on my turn three and it was only a matter of time before he was dead.

5-2 Round 8-Nick-Rug Delver: Nick was a long time legacy player that flew up from Texas to play. I was very nervous going into the match despite my testing showing delver was in my favor.

Game 1: I was able to stick a deed (eventually) and was able to clear the board at 9. I started to drain him out with Deathrite and was able to kill him the turn before he lethal-ed me with delver.

Game 2: He had a strong start of tarmo into disruption and i never stood a chance.

Game 3: I cabal-ed for a tarmo and hit on turn 1. I also saw double mongoose which he quickly played. With him at 6 cards in the yard i wished for bog and slowed the beats down. We both went into top deck mode and despite some poor plays from me (not flashing back cabal for counters...) I was able to out top deck him for the win.

6-2 Round 9-Andrew- Show/reanimator
Game 1: Turn 1 he discarded Gristle into turn 2 reanimator. Again i was able to wish but had no answer in the board....

Game 2: I got out an early death rite but still didn't stand much of a chance.

Overall 6-3

I just missed day 2 in the last round.... but the deck performed well. My final opponent mentioned how much a beating Karakas was for his deck so i went and traded some things to put one in my board. I think with the right SB i could have got 1 of the show and tell match ups but i still havn't been able to go back in time so it doesn't help much...

I plan to keep playing and tuning the deck over time. There is a shop in Portland that has weekly events for dual's so I will likely swing by here and there and build up the deck. If i could have made any changes, i would have included at least a sac creature in the board for gristle and company. If I can build up some MTG dollars i might pick up a lily or 2 to help out versus the big creatures but that will be in the long distant future.

Thanks for the read and any suggestions are appreciated.

I think based on my GP experience, of which I'll write a tournament report tomorrow-ish, I'd go forward with the following. I play more removal than Kevin, since that's life in Canada. Gotta be ready for those Polar Krakens.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
15

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Path to Exile
2 Painful Truths
16

2 Pernicious Deed
2 Toxic Deluge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sylvan Library
9

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Volrath's Stronghold (might become Karakas since Meren/Sigarda is your go-to)
1 Phyrexian Tower
22

//sb
1 Batterskull
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Slaughter Games
2 Krosan Grip
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pithing Needle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fasthippy

Just came back from grand prix seattle and wanted to report on my list.

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First thing of all things. Thank you very much for your report and welcome among Nic Fit players.

Had you come earlier, we (Nic Fit community) might have been able to work you out with some ideas for the GP, all based on budget constraints.

You can be very proud of such a "first" and challenging run.
You basically wrecked every fair MU and got raped by non fair MU.


JBone is one of our best experienced player with a "Living Wish" package.

I'm pretty sure, he will step by, eventually, to give you a lot of ideas/advices for future events.

I'll try to come up with few ideas taking into account your budget constraints in the next few days to help you through your difficult MU.

Cheers,

Ralf.

@Matt: I find your lack of faith in Nightmare...disturbing.

Otherwise, I like it overall. It's more of the jund style approach to the deck (1-for-1 removal suite with heavy card draw, limited ways to actually win), which is fine. I do think you might want to consider a Vindicate over the Pulse. Pulse is generally the better card, but Vindicate is better when Karakas matters to you (Meren) and when you have a powerful recursion engine (EWit + Meren/Nightmare/Stronghold, if the latter stays). The last time I played with Vindicate, I definitely won a couple games by looping into repeated Vindicates to color screw people. It's just a nice functionality to have, and it comes at very little cost.

That's the only real complaints I have -- I obviously build my sideboard a little differently, but that can be anything from regional opponents to personal preferences to local meta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

First thing of all things. Thank you very much for your report and welcome among Nic Fit players.

Had you come earlier, we (Nic Fit community) might have been able to work you out with some ideas for the GP, all based on budget constraints.

You can be very proud of such a "first" and challenging run.
You basically wrecked every fair MU and got raped by non fair MU.


JBone is one of our best experienced player with a "Living Wish" package.

I'm pretty sure, he will step by, eventually, to give you a lot of ideas/advices for future events.

I'll try to come up with few ideas taking into account your budget constraints in the next few days to help you through your difficult MU.

Cheers,

Ralf.

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In terms of my budget I can pick up a key card here and there (i traded for a Karakas..) but i cant go and drop a thousand dollars on a land base or anything like that. The deck seemed close, which seemed surprising due to my relative lack of experience (tested against miracles/delver/omnitell for the last few months). Some of the board definitely needs upgrades, plague bearer seemed great on paper but was meh throughout the day. I liked the bullet board as it made all my living wishes super powerful and there were few matchups that i felt like a huge dog (i did need a fleshbag though..).

Ya as you said those speedy combo decks were rough for me. I have been thinking about going to the full 4 hymn's as it is a main strength of the deck and is the best start the deck can have (cabal, explorer, cabal, hymn). I liked running a high % of basics, I basically ignored wasteland which can sometimes just steal a win right out from under a good hand. Also i might go to 2 thrag's as i am not really running enough sac lands to take advantage of Titania.

Overall the deck felt solid all day and when games came down to top deck wars, I always felt favored due to the tutor package and overall stronger cards.

Hello All!

I'm relatively new to both Nic Fit and legacy but have had a blast so far. I've played in two local 40-60 man tournaments and have gone a total of 5-2-1 with Junk Nic Fit, beating Delver variants 2-0, Miracles 1-0, Cloudpost 1-0, Grixis Control 1-0 and losing to Lands and Punishing Jund (my draw was to Maverick and was largely a result of my poor play). I have a few questions:

1. I've played both tournaments with a small Stoneforge package: 3 Mystics; 1 Batterskull; and 1 Jitte. The package has won me as many games as Rhino or Titania have, but it's also quite the non-bo with Pernicious Deed. When is a stoneforge package advisable (i.e. what matchups does Stoneforge improve) and when is it not?

2. I'm fairly sure I understand how to beat Jund the next time I'm paired against it (the Stoneforge package wasn't where I wanted to be - should have sideboarded into more fatties and some graveyard hate). I have no idea what to do about Lands; that feels like a really tough pairing. Any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

3. What are the pros and cons of Punishing Nic Fit vs. Rhino Fit? I'm working on acquiring Grove of the Burnwillows so I have the option of switching between the two decks.

4. Why has Grave Titan fallen out of favor? He feels like a stronger card than any other option at 6CMC for the deck.

Thanks!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gth842s

Hello All!

I'm relatively new to both Nic Fit and legacy but have had a blast so far. I've played in two local 40-60 man tournaments and have gone a total of 5-2-1 with Junk Nic Fit, beating Delver variants 2-0, Miracles 1-0, Cloudpost 1-0, Grixis Control 1-0 and losing to Lands and Punishing June (my draw was to Maverick and was largely a result of my poor play). I have a few questions:

1. I've played both tournaments with a small Stoneforge package: 3 Mystics; 1 Batterskull; and 1 Jitte. The package has won me as many games as Rhino or Titania have, but it's also quite the non-bo with Pernicious Deed. When is a stoneforge package advisable (i.e. what matchups does Stoneforge improve) and when is it not?

2. I'm fairly sure I understand how to beat Jund the next time I'm paired against it (the Stoneforge package wasn't where I wanted to be - should have sideboarded into more fatties and some graveyard hate). I have no idea what to do about Lands; that feels like a really tough pairing. Any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

3. What are the pros and cons of Punishing Nic Fit vs. Rhino Fit? I'm working on acquiring Grove of the Burnwillows so I have the option of switching between the two decks.

4. Why has Grave Titan fallen out of favor? He feels like a stronger card than any other option at 6CMC for the deck.

Thanks!!

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3. Punishing is absolute control and has the best fair matchup but sacrifices further for the combo matchup. White gives a lot of options like teeg and canonist.

4. Grave Titan can't be gsz for and the big deck runs it to pod tusk into Titan. 6 drops are a premium and primeval is only good in jund builds, mostly scapeshift.

The other two questions, I feel my answer won't be nearly as accurate as someone else's so hopefully I helped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gth842s

Hello All!

I'm relatively new to both Nic Fit and legacy but have had a blast so far. I've played in two local 40-60 man tournaments and have gone a total of 5-2-1 with Junk Nic Fit, beating Delver variants 2-0, Miracles 1-0, Cloudpost 1-0, Grixis Control 1-0 and losing to Lands and Punishing Jund (my draw was to Maverick and was largely a result of my poor play). I have a few questions:

1. I've played both tournaments with a small Stoneforge package: 3 Mystics; 1 Batterskull; and 1 Jitte. The package has won me as many games as Rhino or Titania have, but it's also quite the non-bo with Pernicious Deed. When is a stoneforge package advisable (i.e. what matchups does Stoneforge improve) and when is it not?

2. I'm fairly sure I understand how to beat Jund the next time I'm paired against it (the Stoneforge package wasn't where I wanted to be - should have sideboarded into more fatties and some graveyard hate). I have no idea what to do about Lands; that feels like a really tough pairing. Any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

3. What are the pros and cons of Punishing Nic Fit vs. Rhino Fit? I'm working on acquiring Grove of the Burnwillows so I have the option of switching between the two decks.

4. Why has Grave Titan fallen out of favor? He feels like a stronger card than any other option at 6CMC for the deck.

Thanks!!

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I can only really speak on 4.

4. During my games with my wish version i played him into the board so that i was running a virtual 4 of. What i found during my games is that you often have to grab the answer cards over the win cons (rec sage or revoker). There were several cases were i could have grabbed titan and cast him the next turn but having the answer now was more important. I did cast him two or three times and in every case he won me the game but the situation has to be just right. I liked him in the wish board as i never worried about him being a dead draw early and as was said you cant green sun him anyway.

Played in a big tournament with classic Abzan Fit, but with Dragonlord Dromoka, Wilt-Leaf Liege and more removal (4x Deeds, 3 Decays, etc...)
Went 3-1-1. Fifth place out of 22 players, but since we had little time, only top4. -.-'

Round 01 - WUR Stoneblade 1:1

Worst playing ever. We started playing slowly, and I was thinking that he is playing with Delvers. So, JTMS got online. And soooo slow playing from him. Eventually Batterskull killed me. G2 Qasali Pridemage was a BEAST. Rushed him to a few lives, then Siege Rhino took his life. G3 he stuck a Blood Moon and I totally forgot about that. So, got in time, but I didn't want to concede. Aaaaand a fail of a beginning.

Round 02 - ANT 1:2

First I was paired with a RUG Delver, which I would win 2:0, since I know how to play against them, but judge failed at pairing an I got paired with ANT player, a friend from our group. Game 1 was very easy. Rushing with creatures and Rhino+WiltLeaf to the win! Game 2 he returned my Gaddock Teeg to hand and killed me next turn. And BIGGEST MISTAKE OF THAT DAY...I sided out every Deed & Night of Souls' Betrayal. I had 3 lands in play, one in hand, and Enlightened Tutor...I was so happy that I will kill 14 goblins...and then...fail...well, 1:2. -.-'

Round 03 - Modern DredgeTroll 2:0

Opponent was very ''tired'' and missplayed everything. Maindeck gravehate did the job, and 2:0 for me.

Round 04 - Dredge 2:0

He conceded since I always beat him 2:0. :D

Round 05 - Nic Fit 2:0

Best game of the day. I started with a slightly bad hand. He played a version of Fierce Empath into Sun Titan/Grave Titan. I had a thought in game 1 that I will lose both games, but first game Rhinos took his life and Paths exiled both Titans. SDTop was a BEAST. Game 2 topdeck mode was also good. Removal when needed, GSZ when needed. Dragonlord Dromoka into Wilt-Leaf Liege, and he lost in the last round of time. Haha! :D

Lessons learned that day:
- always keep a Deed against ANT
- Sigarda & Thrun against WUR Stoneblade
- I can win mirror matchups! :D

This just in: Meren and Dryad Arbor are pretty sweet together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricardio

3. Punishing is absolute control and has the best fair matchup but sacrifices further for the combo matchup. White gives a lot of options like teeg and canonist.

4. Grave Titan can't be gsz for and the big deck runs it to pod tusk into Titan. 6 drops are a premium and primeval is only good in jund builds, mostly scapeshift.

The other two questions, I feel my answer won't be nearly as accurate as someone else's so hopefully I helped.

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You have also Broodmate Dragon in Jund. More power, more bodys and can block delver as a boss.

Yeah, if I were on Jund, I'd play Huntmaster and Broodmate, Thragtusk and Thrun.

-Matt

Thragbro is in all my nic fit decks. He's always there and always has my back. I would never relegate him to a single build. Tuskerino is my goose and, I, his maverick.

*queue Highway to the Danger Zone*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Yeah, if I were on Jund, I'd play Huntmaster and Broodmate, Thragtusk and Thrun.

-Matt

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Just another option for jund is Ruric Thar, he also crushes delver decks, well and decks that want to cast spells.


Regarding Dragonlord Dromoka, my only issue with him, is that there are a bunch of Karakas's in my neck of the woods. I have dropped him a couple of times only to have my opponent sandbag a karakas, so he has been benched for the time being.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moseby

Just another option for jund is Ruric Thar, he also crushes delver decks, well and decks that want to cast spells.


Regarding Dragonlord Dromoka, my only issue with him, is that there are a bunch of Karakas's in my neck of the woods. I have dropped him a couple of times only to have my opponent sandbag a karakas, so he has been benched for the time being.

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See also why I've been running Vindicate lately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

See also why I've been running Vindicate lately.

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I made the switch and am liking its versatility.

Also, when is meren legal on mtgo?

Since when has legality stopped anyone? Black Lotus easily casts a Siege Rhino amirite? ;)

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

See also why I've been running Vindicate lately.

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I'm fairly new to the forums here so forgive me if I'm being crazy.

I have an odd thought about this quote above.

This quote is in a chain of add this, but this, so i add that for this thing but than I need that.

Isn't one of the greatest strengths of this deck to avoid the hate that does exist. Everyone is playing wasteland so we play basics, lots of Karakas so we beat down with our non legend monsters and so on.

What i am trying to say is that what you leave out of a list is as important as what you include. I love all the cool bits and pieces we can play but the truth is with as many cards that are available to us (in legacy) unless a cards has a very important role to play, if it is weak to something common in the format we should likely not include it. Now I am not saying we should restrict ourselves in building but instead dig deeper into whats out there. Perhaps this cards is bad because bolt or Karakas but there is likely a card that has a similar effect that doesn't care about bolt or Karakas.

On a different note I love vindicate as well because of flexibility and ability to deal with a wide number of decks. What I am trying to say is when building we should try to maximize our flexibility and restrict our weaknesses. I only played 2 colors and played a ton of basics, but because of the huge card pool to pull from i felt like i could face almost any deck (which proved to be incorrect :tongue:).

I'm honestly still sold the best version of g/b/w starts with 4 rhino 1 sigarda 1 nightmare and 3 equips and fills in from there. Angler is a card now so thrun is weaker, dig is gone so cabal therapy and deed actually generate card advantage, miracles and shardless are back on top. Trampling swords seemed under valued by the community. Case and point since siege rhinos printing there is no good reason to play any six drop. Tasigur and meren shenanigans are more reinventing the wheel imo we already have stronghold and nightmare i fail to see how they are better options in place of existing options or simply playing more disruption if they are in additon to exsisting options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uncletiggy

I'm honestly still sold the best version of g/b/w starts with 4 rhino 1 sigarda 1 nightmare and 3 equips and fills in from there. Angler is a card now so thrun is weaker, dig is gone so cabal therapy and deed actually generate card advantage, miracles and shardless are back on top. Trampling swords seemed under valued by the community. Case and point since siege rhinos printing there is no good reason to play any six drop. Tasigur and meren shenanigans are more reinventing the wheel imo we already have stronghold and nightmare i fail to see how they are better options in place of existing options or simply playing more disruption if they are in additon to exsisting options.

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I understand and agree to a degree.(Dr fkn Seuss over here)
We are getting a bit cute but I will say that nightmare and equipment are not where I want to be at this moment. They seem like value but not in all positions. Painful truths and ajani mentor have been insane for me in all situations. Neither of them get swept up by deed and I can rely on what they will do. If I cast a sword and it resolves, only for it to get decayed when I go to equip it, I'm gonna turn down for what(aka be mad). We lost mana, value and most importantly turned on a previously dead card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Yeah, if I were on Jund, I'd play Huntmaster and Broodmate, Thragtusk and Thrun.

-Matt

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I going to replace my Thrun for the new commander. It do a lot more work

A quick note from my (limited) experience so far with Nic Fit w/ Stoneforge Mystics: I haven't had my equipment bite many Abrupt Decays because most players are so quick to blow up your Stoneforge Mystic (they're afraid you'll cheat in Batterskull if you untap with it) and because most people don't have enough experience against Nic Fit to realize we'll just hard-cast the Batterskull a turn or two later. That said, I wouldn't play equipment without SFM to tutor it up, I'd just run planeswalkers for value or 187-type creatures and spells. A Rhino suited up with a Jitte and a Batterskull is a thing of grindy beauty, however. Similarly, I think the value of Thrun goes way up if you are playing equipment and way down if you aren't, for obvious reasons.

In the Jund build of nic-fit:

Is Kolgath's command or painfull turth the best card as a one of?

For reference this is my list.

Creatures 16
3 vet
2 drs
1 teeg
1 ooze
1 sfm
1 qpm
1 courser
1 mentor
4 rhino
1 sigarda

selection 8
3 top
3 zenith
1 intent
1 nightmare

disruption 15
4 therapy
3 decay
1 path
1 plow
1 f charm
1 deed
1 deluge
1 pulse
1 sofi
1 jitte

lands 22
2 bayou
2 savanna
1 scrubland
1 badlands (dont own a tiger)
2 forest
2 plains
2 swamp
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
1 phrexian tower
1 marsh flats
4 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath

Sb 15
2 teeg
1 cannonist
1 dryad militant
1 k grip
1 deed
1 deluge
2 thoughtseize
2 slaughter games
1 solas
3 open

The funeral charm is a concession to wanting the 3rd one mana removal spell and a fifth piece of maindeck discard. All modes on it are relevant it can snag a terminus with the trigger on the stack, fufills a critical mass of discard vs storm and burn, can get sigarda around a wall of strix or act as a surprise shock when paired with rhino. The other odd selection is the geist. He is a certified jace killer having a hasted zenithable threat especially with equipment matters vs mircles and shardless him + eot dryad arbor help make up for the lack of a maindeck pulse.

Mentor is the most recent addition originally i had been toying with a slightly different version with knights and titania to try and go wide mentor seemed to solve that desire without requiring any additional support it is currently untested.

Took top 16 at Mythic, good for $50. Not sure where exactly, but I'm guessing 11th-14th range. Played my last posted list.

Matchups were:

BUG Delver (L) - punted hard in g3, totally my fault
Grixis Omni (W)
Infect (W)
TES (L) - Bryant Cook, very insanely close/good match.
Grixis Delver w/Deathrites (W)
Reanimator (W)

I'll post a detailed report tomorrow.

Very nice arianrhod! I actually played your list today at my local legacy event. Had a couple card different..

went 2-2 for the day. (only 4 rounds for our weekly).

Lost to infect 0-2
Won vs some modern zombie garbage (wasnt even a match)
Lost to Sneak and Show 1-2
Won vs Death and Taxes 2-0

The round vs sneak and show was winnable.. sometimes they just draw the nuts.. but I seem to be terrible vs infect.. they jsut always seem to blitz me so hard.. would love to hear your strategy vs that deck.


very fun list!

PS meren is amazing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ganfar

In the Jund build of nic-fit:

Is Kolgath's command or painfull turth the best card as a one of?

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I forgot to write the tournament report, but Truth is an excellent card in midrange and control decks that can play it. It was so good against the blue decks all tournament; do not underestimate the power.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I forgot to write the tournament report, but Truth is an excellent card in midrange and control decks that can play it. It was so good against the blue decks all tournament; do not underestimate the power.

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Yeah, I know Truth is a good card, I got to play it sometimes and drawing 3 cards i awesome. I was just wondering if command was in the same powerlevel.

Doing different things, but I'd honestly rather draw 3 cards raw.

-Matt

Okay, detailed report.

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate

2 Abrupt Decay

3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

//sb
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Thoughtseize
3 Slaughter Games
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Golgari Charm
1 Tsunami
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Engineered Plague
1 Krosan Grip

As noted, this is the same list that I last posted. I kind of wanted to find room for another removal spell maindeck, but I ended up not being able and just went with what I had.

Round 1: Maxwell with BUG Delver

He wins the die roll, and leads USea -> Delver. I play a Forest and a Top, he Dazes it. K. He proceeds to curve DRS -> Goyf -> Liliana -> Force backup while I draw nothing but lands. I think I drew one non-land card the entire game :|

Game two I keep the following hand:

Bayou, Vet, Top, GSZ, E.Wit, Tsunami, Decay. I opt to play the Top on turn 1, while he Thoughtseizes me and takes the Vet. Annoying, but w/e. I naturally draw a Forest. I think I Zenithed up a DRS, and then he Needled my Top. I blew that up with Decay, and we went back and forth for a while. I eventually got a Therapy off, checking for Forces and hitting 3x Decays on the way back. Rhino trampled over a TNN, but he had a disfigure to finish it off. Baneslayer cleaned up the game.

Game three was my only really bad time of the day. He led with a Delver. I played a Vet, which he Dazed, then he untapped into a Deathrite. I played a land, and tanked. I had a couple of options. I could play another Veteren, or I could hold up Decay, or I could Zenith out a Deathrite of my own. I immediately concluded that the Zenith was the worst line -- it lost to 2nd Daze and realistically a Deathrite war isn't where I wanted to be anyway. My instincts were screaming at me that he was going to Brainstorm on upkeep to flip the Delver, and I could really get him with Decay if I held that up. For some reason, though, I decided to play the Vet. I still to this moment haven't figured out why I did that.

Long story short, he Brainstormed on upkeep like I knew he would, and I ended up having to do something else on the following turn, and then he Hymned me and hit both my Vindicate and Decay in my hand, which left me with land + courser. Courser resolved, but proceeded to just draw me garbage until I was dead. That stupid Delver did basically all of the damage to me that entire game. If I'd just listened to my instincts I could've time walked him and prevented an eventual loss. Instead, I'm a dumbass.

The good? news is that my opponent proceeded to crush the rest of the swiss, and was in 1st or 2nd seed going into top 8, I believe.

Round 2: Zach with Grixis OmniTell

I was pretty confused game one. He led Proge into Volc, which immediately sounded warning klaxons. He played some cantrips while I tried to beat him down as quickly as possible. He added an Underground Sea at some point, and then Burning Wished for Show and Tell. Okay, mystery solved. All told I got him to 7 before he went off, with the help of a turn 3 Rhino off DRS. He was dead the following turn: DRS drain + rhino/vet swing for 5. Close.

In comes infinite sideboard hate.

Game two was an exercise in "almost good enough, actually good enough." He had some cantrips, but I actually drew Therapies this game. I eventually deployed a Canonist to join my board of other dorks, and Vindicated his lone Volcanic Island. He drew another Volcanic off the Top, and slammed the Pryoclasm that was apparently the last card in his hand. Oof. It's okay, though, because I can (and do) Zenith up Sigarda to close the game out. He doesn't draw runner runner combo cards, and we go to game 3.

Game three I actually saw Slaughter Games, and took out his Omnis. This gave me perfect info on his deck, and I still had things to worry about -- he had a pair of Emrakuls and a pair of Griselbrands in the deck, with 4 Show and Tells (he'd wished for one, I'd discarded it and then later an Emrakul which shuffled back in). I manage to beat him down to 3, and then Zenith up a Rhino to finish him off before he recovers.

Round 3: Shawn with Infect

My opening hand is insane vs fair.dec, so I hope that my opponent is playing nice and keep. My opponent leads Pendelhaven into Noble Hierarch. Welp.

Luckily for me, the reason that my hand was insane vs fair.dec was because I had all three Pernicious Deeds in it. I blocked the first two Glistener Elf hits with Vets (sadly they didn't die because of the Pendelhaven). The first Deed gets Forced, and the second gets Stifled -- the Stifle costs me 6 poison, which was the first damage I'd taken that game. Good thing I had number three, which joins the party. Some combat fuckery happens, and I deal with his Glistener Elf by double blocking it with Courser + E.Wit, forcing him to start using his Inkmoth instead -- the reason being that I want to Deed away his Inkmoth. I eventually kill him with Rhinos while never letting him connect with another creature for the rest of the game.

I'll note that I had a sweet line that I REALLY wanted to take, but chose not to because I Therapied him and saw a Crop Rot. I had the ability at one point to break Deed @1 to kill 1 Veteran + 1 Deathrite + Glistener + Noble, and I really wanted to Zenith up Meren, but I'd therapied and knew he had a Crop Rotation. I'm like 95% sure that Infect plays a Karakas maindeck, so I just got a Rhino instead. Sad times.

Game two my opening hand once again had two Deeds. Sick life. Unfortunately, my opponent has two Pithing Needles. I thoughtseize the first one on turn 1, but he draws + Probes into another one. I go to 8 poison this game before stabilizing with a Golgari Charm to kill his 2x Glistener draw. Decay takes out a Blighted Agent while Therapy + Flashback takes out another that was lurking in his hand, and then he was out of gas. Qasali comes out and punches for 3 a bunch of times, while threatening to free up a Deed that I'd played into the Needle at instant speed if it was ever needed. It wasn't, and I was 2-1.

Round 4: Bryant Cook with TES

Bryant and I have played many times, and despite my joking that I was probably just dead on turn 1 every game, we usually have really good matches. If he writes a report for Mythic, I'm sure his account will be better and more detailed, but I'll do the best I can.

Game one we both mulled to 6. He plays USea and a pair of LEDs, and passes, scaring me quite a bit in the process. I deploy a couple of Veterans for early beatdowns while he's stuck on one land. A Deed@0 takes out his LEDs -- I chose not to crack it for 1 both because I wanted to get those LEDs out of the equation as quickly as I could, and because he was still on one land and I had a feeling he wanted my Vets to die so he could get his Swamp and get to 2 mana. I draw into a Therapy finally once he's at 5 life vs my 22 (thanks, Rhino). I Therapy him, naming Dark Ritual, and see Infernal, Probe, Duress, 2x Rite of Flame, 2x Chrome Mox. I decide it's worth giving him one mana to take away the Infernal, since it's his only business, so I flashback off a Vet, which leaves lethal in play thanks to Rhino + Vet.

He draws for his turn and Probes me, and then proceeds to reveal that he drew double Burning Wish. He tries to get something going with Past in Flames, but he's short of being able to do anything and scoops it up.

Game 2 is pretty /cry. I have a slower hand with some hate and a Therapy. I call Dark Ritual again and miss. His hand is Infernal, Wish, AdNaus, Petal, Chrome, Mire. He draws an LED and Infernals for a second copy, then plays them to dodge Therapy flashback. Unfortunately, I don't draw into a 1 drop, a 2 drop, or a Green Sun, and he gets to untap unmolested. He chooses to Duress me, which reveals the Mindcensor in my hand to him. The following turn he goes in on Burning Wish and makes 10 goblins while hoping I don't draw into a Deed. I take out two of the Goblins with the Mindcensor and a Vet, but fail to draw into a sweeper or a Rhino. I do manage to give him a good scare, though -- my last draw is Vindicate, so I tap three and point at his goblins. We have a good laugh, and it's off to three.

I had a really strong start this game, and Bryant was pretty resigned for a long time. It involved Therapy (which missed again, revealing AdNaus, PEtal, LED, I.Tutor, 2x Mire, Tendrils), into Vet (taking the AdNaus), into Canonist. Canonist got to stick around a couple of turns, long enough for me to Zenith up Meren. He'd used basically all of his resources to Tutor for Wish to get Massacre over that time. He Massacred, killing the Canonist, but didn't have a lot else to do yet. Meren had one counter on her, and I had one turn where if I'd found a sacrifice outlet (I would've even Deeded@1) to off the Vet again to get Meren to 2, I would've definitely won -- Meren recurring Canonist would be insane. I didn't, though, so I decided that the best line I could take was to play the Elspeth, redbull Meren, and put him to 7. I knew the slight way back into the game that he had was to recur the AdNaus, so I wanted him to have as little life to work with as possible. He got the best draw he possibly could (a Dark Ritual), which let him start going off with Past in Flames -> Ad Nauseum. His first AdNaus flip was an LED. He dropped to 3 off the PiF, but had enough to Tendrils me for exact.

Absolutely a hell of a match -- probably one of the closest I've ever played vs TES.

Round 5: Michael with Grixis Delver (with Deathrites)

Both of these games were pretty academic, so I don't have many notes on them. He was playing Delver. I was playing Nic Fit. He didn't nut me and I didn't punt, therefore I won. I successfully Therapied a Stifle in game one, which cleared the way for me to Deed away my 2x Vets + his DRS + Delver + Pyromancer. I then untapped curving Rhino into Sun Titan. Our game two was basically a cripple fight -- I had a Qasali vs his DRS, and that was basically the entire game. We just disrupted each other constantly beyond that. I eventually drew into more gas and killed him.

Round 6: Nick Patnode with Reanimator

Patnode and I have also played a lot of matches. We joke that there are days I beat him, and there are days he beats me, because of his deck selection. Sometimes he plays Shardless or RUG, other times he plays Reanimator or TES. He wins the die roll and leads USea -> Ponder. Okay, Reanimator then.

I Therapy him for Reanimate and hit, seeing 2x Careful Study, BStorm, Animate Dead, and Misty. He draws, plays a land, and passes. He expects me to do Veteran things to flashback the Therapy, so he's holding up Brainstorm. I Zenith up a DRS instead, and pass. He reveals that he'd hid an Entomb on top of his deck with the Ponder on turn 1, and makes a Griselbrand. I try to Vindicate it, but he has the Force. Oh well.

Games two and three was batshit crazy. Game two his hand is pretty awful, and I make it worse -- I play a Deathrite, which he Forces, and then I zenith up the second one. I also have a Karakas in play, so he decides to Entomb/Exhume Sire of Insanity, which lets me get back my 2nd Deathrite. The chaos that ensues is ridiculous. 20 minutes of durdling later, I'd managed to block (or absorb hits from) his Sire while controlling the graveyard with my Deathrites. Multiple Veterans went off, and I had Sylvan to help keep my cards up as best I could. I eventually Zenithed out Meren, and she won the game for me. Turns out Meren is awfully good vs Sire of Insanity.

Game three we ended up in a similar state, except via Careful Study I think? Either way, Sire came out again -- but this time he had one of my Deathrites while I had the other (He'd killed one early and then reanimated it for himself). He eventually added a Grave Titan to the mix, but I had enough dorks in play to stall until I landed a Baneslayer (Courser helped me draw into it), which was able to win the game in one hit -- Mindcensor had been poking him in the air and I'd been aggro-durdling him. Two swings with a Grave Titan weren't enough to win the game, and I found myself 4-2, good for top 16.

So, to recap, the only bad game I had all day, I feel, was my r1g3 vs BUG where I just shot myself in the foot. Beyond that, I played against 4 combo decks and beat 3 (almost beating the 4th). The other fair matchup went exactly as it should.

The takeaways:

-) Meren didn't come up a ton, but a lot of that was because of matchups. I was very happy to have her in the list, and she'll continue to be present.
-) I want another 2-drop, but I don't know what I want it to be, since all of the options are bleh.
-) Qasali overperformed, and I didn't even play vs Miracles or Stoneblade.
-) I had a couple of times where I should've gotten Nissa and didn't because I didn't set her up properly, which is a play error on my part (ie I fetched basic forests too much and didn't leave fetches in play for her).
-) Sun Titan was bad on the day, but I think that's almost entirely matchup-driven. You can't realistically expect to play vs 4 combo decks when the format is heavily miracles and shardless -- and he's far from dead vs delver, too.
-) Vindicate only came up once (nuking a volc vs grixis omni). If it had been a Pulse, I might've beat Bryant in 2 (would've cleared goblins). At the same time, I didn't play vs Miracles or DnT. Hmm.
-) The sideboard was ridiculous. I'd say it's something like 13-14/15 correct. The Elspeth is really the only thing that I'm unsure about...maybe the Plague, but I like the idea of the plague.

So, things to be improved upon:

-) Probably -1 Courser, +1 2-drop. Courser is good, and I was never really unhappy to see it, but I need space for another 2-drop, and the 2nd Courser is the only thing I really think of right now.
-) I still want another removal spell -- probably a Pulse but possibly a Deluge, an Abzan, or a Judgment. Still no idea where to find the room for it.
-) The Elspeth in the board probably should just come out and be replaced with a more flexible card.

It's possible that the 2-drop problem just can't be solved right now, and the 2nd Courser (if I do end up cutting that, which I'm far from sure about), should be the 4th removal spell.

Either way, it was definitely a good day. Could've been slightly better, but I'm not going to complain. This list is really solid, and a blast to play. It just needs a little tiny bit more tuning and then it should be pretty close to perfect (at least, perfect for my playstyle and tastes).

What do you want from the two drop? Scooze goyf and teeg instantly come to mind I'd consider them all slightly better then the second courser.

Ooze> all.

Thanks for the long, nice read!

It seems you missed listing the two Coursers.

Ooze is a very good two drop, surprised to see it's not in your list. Another two drop to consider could be Strangleroot Geist. Not very strong, certainly not compared to Ooze, but it does offer a way to get rid of early Lilianas, punish Miracles for tapping out for Jace, double trading or double chumping vs creature based assaults to buy time and vs combo decks allowing t2 flashbacked Therapy + hitting for three for a faster clock.

awesome write up!! thanks for tuning the list.. so far its been my favorite abzan build to play.. so definately going to keep at it :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pettdan

Thanks for the long, nice read!

It seems you missed listing the two Coursers.

Ooze is a very good two drop, surprised to see it's not in your list. Another two drop to consider could be Strangleroot Geist. Not very strong, certainly not compared to Ooze, but it does offer a way to get rid of early Lilianas, punish Miracles for tapping out for Jace, double trading or double chumping vs creature based assaults to buy time and vs combo decks allowing t2 flashbacked Therapy + hitting for three for a faster clock.

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Good eye. I fixed that Re@Coursers.

My biggest problem with Ooze is more playstyle than anything else. I tend to use my graveyard fairly heavily. The same is true in vintage -- I wasn't running more than 1 each of Dig and Cruise even before the restriction, because I tend to play to my Yawg Will. I didn't want to weaken my Will even if it meant that some games I might not need to Will. Kind of counterintuitive, perhaps, but that's how I think.

That being said, Ooze is definitely the best green two-drop for Nic Fit at the moment. I might put him in just as a purely offensive bro -- never use him on myself, but he'd usually have something to eat from the opponent I guess.

Strangleroot isn't awful. I don't think it's where I really want to be, but it's not awful.

Goyf is not an option on the table. Card is awful.

The problem with Teeg is primarily that I absolutely hate turning off my Green Suns. Nic Fit is, in my mind, a very Green Sun oriented deck. If you're playing Nic Fit, unless you're doing something different within the archetype, you're playing the best Green Sun deck in the format, and your list should reflect that. Even if Teeg hurts other decks sufficiently, turning off one of the best cards in your deck is a no-no to me. Also, I've been burned before by running Teeg alongside 4-drop combo hate (Slaughter Games / Cranial Extraction, Nether Void, Tsunami, etc), and I'd rather have the 4-drop effect.

The reason for 2x Courser in the first place, by the way, was because you wanted to draw one naturally. You don't want to have to use a GSZ to get him in play, but he's still a card that you want to have in the deck and you want to get out. That kind of requires him to be a 2-of. He was strong enough that it may be correct to rethink that a little, though -- he might be fine to actually Zenith for.

Fair, but he's the nutters against Miracles and Combo, so you have to balance that out.

Why Sakura Tribe Elder, besides being a badass? Is it your backup in case Vet doesn't go off?

-Matt