Miracle Control

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

So I'm curious about why you played the basic mountain + blood moon instead of Back to basics? It seems like you're valuing the card really heavily and I don't think the cost associated with the mountain and no other red cards warrants inclusion.

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Truth is I want to put the Pyroblasts too. I probably will in the future. B2B was easier to play, but easier to play around by my opponents too. The surprise factor of turning a pure UW colour built to UWR in games 2-3 mattered too.

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Originally Posted by Tel'Lythari

Just wondering, leyline's there mainly against burn, would you ever consider Counterbalance in the sideboard (1-3, or even 4 if they can replace all of your leylines) since they serve a good purpose against Burn, Storm and more?

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Not in the SB, but I did tried 3 CB in the main (lowering the Counterspell numbers). I was not that impressed. Against Burn by 2nd-3rd turn (when basically CB goes online), I was heavily down on life and not able to manipulate my library+control the board with ease. After all, Fireblast is still Fireblast. And a smart Storm player can play around it if he hadn't discarded it from your hand first. Leyline is a killer option against Burn, Storm and really good against Heavy-discard decks like BUG Delver. Requires no less than 4 SB slots however. Probably more powerful in a known meta. Bottom line, I believe that nowadays CB's importance is greater if you want to use it as a CA tool (f.e. against Elves or Delver decks) than a lock piece (where Leyline is IMHO the card to go against Burn/Storm. Being untargettable from Alluren's Strix and Food Chain's Ballista is a bonus). Perhaps I'm wrong. That's what we all try to figure. :)

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Originally Posted by Kagehisa

+4 Terminus

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Obviously
:laugh:

I had the exact same experience with CB vs Burn too, I hated it.

Thanks for the report, sefir. I can see why that list is heavily vulnerable to 4c loam, I managed to beat them pretty soundly yesterday with the 3UA/2STP build and a Kor Firewalker in the board. UA is very good against their Chalice plan and sometimes you just need to let Teeg chew on you for a while before you can exile him or flash in a Snapcaster for a block.

Hi guys !

First of all thanks to everyone for this brainstorm and these good ideas.

I'm testing Memory Lapse instead of Counterspell in the pack and it's just amazing.

https://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/...5BEMA%255D.jpg

I do not know if one of you had the same idea, but I strongly encourage you to test the card.
It gives us free Time Walk ever and ever...

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Originally Posted by melaar

Hi guys !

First of all thanks to everyone for this brainstorm and these good ideas.

I'm testing Memory Lapse instead of Counterspell in the pack and it's just amazing.

https://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/...5BEMA%255D.jpg

I do not know if one of you had the same idea, but I strongly encourage you to test the card.
It gives us free Time Walk ever and ever...

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The problem with this card is that it isn't good on its own, (counterspell) and doesn't deal with a resolved permanent to buy time (Unexpectedly absent). It requires the 1-2 punch in order to be any good, and is otherwise just strictly worse than the other two cards, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

The problem with this card is that it isn't good on its own, (counterspell) and doesn't deal with a resolved permanent to buy time (Unexpectedly absent). It requires the 1-2 punch in order to be any good, and is otherwise just strictly worse than the other two cards, in my opinion.

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"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." is a very good quotation :smile:

I think the same as you Minniehajj. It's true that this card alone is less strong than the two others. But I tested it, and I saw that it shines wonderfully alongside : Portent, Snap, UA and JTMS.

Memory Lapse seems good against storm but it sounds awful against something like Sneak Attack if they're just going to get to recast it next turn.

I want to try this, I like the look of it with the tricks it has piling on. It's also where I eat crow and admit I was very wrong about predict. That said does anyone here feel up to a primer? This is gathering steam online and this thread, old and we'll outdated is in dire need of upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I want to try this, I like the look of it with the tricks it has piling on. It's also where I eat crow and admit I was very wrong about predict. That said does anyone here feel up to a primer? This is gathering steam online and this thread, old and we'll outdated is in dire need of upgrade.

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Already on it. Should be done by Monday evening.

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

Already on it. Should be done by Monday evening.

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Swell. Please pm Julian when you do and let him know he can retire this thread.

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

Already on it. Should be done by Monday evening.

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That's awesome!

How does everyone feel about Engineered Explosives? It saw some play in pre-ban builds. I like the card a lot: does the shift from UWR to UW affect its viability? Critical 3-drops that are no longer answered in straight UW are TNN, Lili, and Leovold: it remains to be great against tokens and Chalices. It is yet another card for Gaddock Teeg to shut off, however, which is unfortunate.

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Originally Posted by Richard Arschmann

How does everyone feel about Engineered Explosives? It saw some play in pre-ban builds. I like the card a lot: does the shift from UWR to UW affect its viability? Critical 3-drops that are no longer answered in straight UW are TNN, Lili, and Leovold: it remains to be great against tokens and Chalices. It is yet another card for Gaddock Teeg to shut off, however, which is unfortunate.

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If only aiming to deal with chalice and token, I suggest Detention Sphere instead in UW build

I don't know where you are with your sideboard, but Submerge is currently bonker if you're packing 4-predicts in your main.

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Originally Posted by Sefir

Not in the SB, but I did tried 3 CB in the main (lowering the Counterspell numbers). I was not that impressed. Against Burn by 2nd-3rd turn (when basically CB goes online), I was heavily down on life and not able to manipulate my library+control the board with ease. After all, Fireblast is still Fireblast. And a smart Storm player can play around it if he hadn't discarded it from your hand first. Leyline is a killer option against Burn, Storm and really good against Heavy-discard decks like BUG Delver. Requires no less than 4 SB slots however. Probably more powerful in a known meta. Bottom line, I believe that nowadays CB's importance is greater if you want to use it as a CA tool (f.e. against Elves or Delver decks) than a lock piece (where Leyline is IMHO the card to go against Burn/Storm. Being untargettable from Alluren's Strix and Food Chain's Ballista is a bonus). Perhaps I'm wrong. That's what we all try to figure. :)

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Hey, that was what I did too (Lower CSpell for 3-4 CBs), though I haven't played much so I didn't know how good it would be eventually. From what I'm seeing, it feels like Predict has taken over CB as the CA engine while Portent is now pseudo-SDT given how it enables our Miracles as well as Predicts. Miracles has evolved from Counter-Top to Predict-Portent :)

Thanks for your feedback! Appreciate it. I've only been theory-crafting so far (with only a couple of games in the bag) as there hasn't been much time to grind. It's nice to see you testing Leylines and making them work out. Cheers to your innovation!

Is there a list of Vods or YouTube videos of this new build around?

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Originally Posted by Nestalim

I don't know where you are with your sideboard, but Submerge is currently bonker if you're packing 4-predicts in your main.

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Yes, Submerge should really be nice but the Turn 1 Underground Sea, Shaman is bad news sometimes. I love Submerge as a card, really.

Its friends Vanishment and Set Adrift are on my watch list too.

Why this overuse of Portent ? Some tricks with predict ? Why not playing the classical preordain ?

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Originally Posted by M1n1stry

Why this overuse of Portent ? Some tricks with predict ? Why not playing the classical preordain ?

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Some reasons (in no particular order):

1. It helps set up Predict for next turn by letting you pick the worst card to Predict away whereas you're stuck Predicting away only 1 card out of 2 compared to Portent's out of three. Also by seeing three cards you have the option to Predict two turns from that Portent on your upkeep.
2. It triggers Terminus on your opponent's turn.
3. It bypasses Leovold and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
4. It makes fatesealing with Jace into a deterministic win condition.
5. It sees 4 cards whereas Preordain only sees 3.
6. It synergizes with Unexpectedly Absent.


I would still standby the key reasons to use Portent is because of synergy, bypassing Leovold and being able to see 4 cards in total.

The big reason is that it see's 4 instead of 3, and as a control deck, specifically a draw go control deck, having the card the turn your cast it instead of next upkeep isn't a big drawback, compared to proactive decks like combo or delver. And it gives you more flexibility with predict, which is a more critical piece of the deck than pre ban.