[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

Confidant lists are definately a different beast from the traditional Team America lists. I am not quite confortable with the fact that he requires you to commit to the board so early and does so little when you are behind. That being said he is clearly quite powerfull and the deck has put up results.


If you want to play the more controlling team America i think you are better off playing the landstill deck Frauenschläger played at BOM with a 4 bop, 4 goyf sideboard. It seems to do most of what those lists do, just better.

On the darkblast note, you guys should look into loam and sower as sideboard cards, they are both insane in many matchups and were all stars throughout the tournament.

Hi folks,
I'm relatively new to TA, there is a good strategy vs blood moon effects, or just a force of will? Blood moon or magus on first turn imho is a bye ... isn't it?

Thanks for your support
Andrea

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Originally Posted by nesys

Hi folks,
I'm relatively new to TA, there is a good strategy vs blood moon effects, or just a force of will? Blood moon or magus on first turn imho is a bye ... isn't it?

Thanks for your support
Andrea

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The only way is to counter it or add basic lands. Basic lands make you worse against pretty much every single other deck, so if you know you're playing against dragon stompy, I'd definitely mull into FoW, or discard/daze if on the play.

What exactly is loam doing for you in this deck? Why would you want it?
Sower I can understand as a removal spell, though I think it is still too slow and vulnerable for that purpose.

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Originally Posted by GtF

What exactly is loam doing for you in this deck? Why would you want it?

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Loam is probably used for : food Tombstalker, CA with Brainstorm and recursive wasteland.

I want to play this deck (I'm a vintage player which want to start legacy) and I have a question : how good is Hymn to Tourach ? Spell Snare / Spell Pierce or spot removal could be better in this slot ? Or Tourach is too valuable ?

I have another question : how to deal with a Leyline of the Void ?

Hymn is insane, it wins you games all by itself, alot of the games are attrition based.

Loam is good with the sideboard package, i want to be boarding in sowers, jaces and deeds which means i need more lands post board. It also provides sick value in alot of different ways, from getting lands to brainstorm away, to dredging away crap on top of your library, wastelocking, fighting other peoples wastelands, making it easy to cast multiple stalkers. It does alot of stuff and i very rarely boarded my singleton out. It is quite subtle, try playing it and you will see what i mean. It is the same slot that used to be predict as a way to win long games.

With regards to blood moon: those decks are typically pretty bad so if you mull a bit agressively they fold to the disruption package. Starting to add basics is asking to lose in all other matchups, the deck really needs BB and UG off of 2 lands.

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Originally Posted by ludollu

I have another question : how to deal with a Leyline of the Void ?

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There really isn't much you can do if you don't expect it. Just ignoring it worked out OK for me whenever I faced it, even though not having access to your Tombstalker airforce really, really sucks. 2/3 or 3/4 Tarmogoyfs get there enventually, however (the only deck that brought Leylines in against me was Dream Halls Combo, so that statement may be false for more aggressive decks). Other than that: Maelstrom Pulse/Krosan Grip.

That's one of the reasons I really like Pulse right now in the deck, is it gives you an out to some random card like Leyline. Plus, with the U/w Landstill deck whose only win condition is Jace running around, having a card that kills Jace without attacking and can't be countered by Misstep or Spell Snare seems good.

Has anyone had any success with Threads of Disloyalty? It seems pretty decent to me, a removal spell that can be pitched to Force . . . . pretty good.

J

Team America - Louis Deltour (BOM5 semi-finalist)
http://www.youtube.com/user/watchdam.../2/v1AHwfnu7Q4


Mainboard:

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Go for the Throat
1 Pernicious Deed
//20

4 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//12

4 Tarmogoyf
2 Terravore
//6

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
//22


Sideboard:

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//15


First impression : 4 Confidant + 4 Force+ 4 Misstep + 3 Thoughtseize + 8 fetch ... ouch ...

Also, 4 Hymn (2B) + 2 Jace (2U) + 2 Terravore (2G) may cause some color death.

Otherwise, transform the deck into a heavy control (with the side) seems to be a good idea.

I think the basics in the list above are exceptionally greedy, beyond that i like the many deeds. We strongly considered threads, the problem is that it doesn't steal the creature you really care about; Knight of the reliquary. Many green lists are cutting goyfs to make room for zeniths. Hence why we ended up playing sowers instead of the otherwise superior threads.

If they do board leylines in against you that is probably good for you. You now both have 4 dead cards, but you have 4 brainstorm 4 ponder, so you have an easier time getting rid of yours while they have to commit them to the board.

Against landstill the big problem is standstill itself, it is probably lights out if it resolves, though i haven't tested it enough to say for certain.

Hey guys, I have been play testing a list very similar to Edgar's from the last SCG open. I was wondering what you guys consider prime opening hands for this archetype. It seems Hymn is crucial turn two.

@Goddik: I beat Landstill last night by breaking the Standstill as soon as possible. The worst thing you can do against that deck, I think, is wait out the Standstill, because eventually if you wait long enough they'll get a better control hand than you, and they CAN eventually just drop Factories and kill you, in which case you'll have to break it anyway, and you'll just have let them sculpt the perfect hand first.

I was running 2 Spell Snare last night, not sure if thats the right call or not, but it does counter Standstill, which is relevant if they don't have a Misstep back.

re: Sower vs. Threads: I can see Sower working, but every 4 drop we cram into the deck makes the manabase that much trickier. Its hard to spend all yoru wastelands keeping your opponent at 1 or 2 lands when your hand is all Sowers and Jaces. Not that 3 is much better than threads, but at some point we have to stop adding big mana spells, or we have to start adding lands. I'm not sure how that really fits.

re: Beating landstill: If it looks like Landstill is going to be really popular in Providence, I'm thinking 2 Thrun in the 75 might not be a bad idea. The only answer they have to him is double blocking with Factory. Seems pretty good.

J

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Originally Posted by Jeff

@Goddik: I beat Landstill last night by breaking the Standstill as soon as possible. The worst thing you can do against that deck, I think, is wait out the Standstill, because eventually if you wait long enough they'll get a better control hand than you, and they CAN eventually just drop Factories and kill you, in which case you'll have to break it anyway, and you'll just have let them sculpt the perfect hand first.

I was running 2 Spell Snare last night, not sure if thats the right call or not, but it does counter Standstill, which is relevant if they don't have a Misstep back.

re: Sower vs. Threads: I can see Sower working, but every 4 drop we cram into the deck makes the manabase that much trickier. Its hard to spend all yoru wastelands keeping your opponent at 1 or 2 lands when your hand is all Sowers and Jaces. Not that 3 is much better than threads, but at some point we have to stop adding big mana spells, or we have to start adding lands. I'm not sure how that really fits.

re: Beating landstill: If it looks like Landstill is going to be really popular in Providence, I'm thinking 2 Thrun in the 75 might not be a bad idea. The only answer they have to him is double blocking with Factory. Seems pretty good.

J

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Still doesn't kill Thrun since he regenerates :P The only out is Factory Recursion with Crucible or Elspeth chumping, or Wrathing when Thrun player is tapped out. Thrun is pretty hard to deal with for Landstill players, and GerryT's list has much less outs against Thrun than the regular landstill lists.

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Originally Posted by Metalwalker

Still doesn't kill Thrun since he regenerates :P

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This is what I get for advocating cards without actually LOOKING at them. Yes, even that doesn't kill him. So . . yea. Thrun.

2 of the 4 decks I played last night were Standstill decks, and let me tell you, all I really wanted all night was big threats, and all I had were these stupid little 3/1 fliers. I"m going back to Tombstalkers, thats for dang sure, Cliques be damned :)

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Originally Posted by Jeff

This is what I get for advocating cards without actually LOOKING at them. Yes, even that doesn't kill him. So . . yea. Thrun.

2 of the 4 decks I played last night were Standstill decks, and let me tell you, all I really wanted all night was big threats, and all I had were these stupid little 3/1 fliers. I"m going back to Tombstalkers, thats for dang sure, Cliques be damned :)

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Clique is actually really really good against Standstill. Flashing a Clique in response to a Standstill when a control player taps out (Landstill doesn't play daze) is backbreaking. If they don't have a FoW, they just lost (you get +3 cards or sneak a few damage if they feel like they need to draw under standstill for some turns before cracking it).

If anything, I would be playing more Cliques if Standstill become dominant. As a landstill player, I'll chime in on a couple of cards that will affect Landstill players the most: 1cmc discard e.g. Duress/Thoughtseize will make a powerful 7 card hand in control much less powerful. Since control players usually play decks that have varied outs to many situations, a duress can take out the most relevant spell while leaving a hand of less relevant spell. This really hurts the control player. However, thanks to MMS, control players have some form to battle that these days. And Clique essentially does what Duress does for most parts, except it screws up Standstill and the inbuilt Flash is very relevant.

Although it kinda dies to Shackles :P

I'll buy all of that, but this deck rarely runs more than 2 cliques, and I can't cast it until after you can already resolve Standstill, and then it's just crappy in my hand. I wanted something on the board that they'd have to work to stick Shackles on. Terravore probably would've done the same thing.

More to the point though, I did actually beat both standstill decks, and I really wanted the stalkers more for other matchups and felt the clique wasn't good enough against anything to justify not having my big fatty anymore.

Although Chapin had an interesting suggestion in his article a few days ago where he was advocating 4 Jaces in TA. I'd go for it if Jace was any good against Merfolk at all, but I can never protect him against them, and with so many merfolk decks running around right now, having a bunch of bad cards against them seems . . . bad.

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Originally Posted by Jeff

re: Sower vs. Threads: I can see Sower working, but every 4 drop we cram into the deck makes the manabase that much trickier. Its hard to spend all yoru wastelands keeping your opponent at 1 or 2 lands when your hand is all Sowers and Jaces. Not that 3 is much better than threads, but at some point we have to stop adding big mana spells, or we have to start adding lands. I'm not sure how that really fits.



J

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When you board into a semi-real control deck with game-changing four-drops, you shouldn't be trying to waste their manabase to shreds. And you should probably be boarding out Dazes for the most part by the way (depending on their curve etc). The game becomes all about reaching 4 mana with a stable board, and from there it should be smooth sailing.

In this deck, Loam is like adding lands, but better. Loam is quite the misunderstood card...I wouldn't play less than 2 between main and side

How would you construct the MB and SB with the Natural Order/Show and Tell matchup in mind these days? Would you play Phyrexian Metamorph in order to have outs if Progenitus and/or Emrakul rear their fugly heads? Are there any other cards that make this matchup better? And last but not least... any tips on solving the Burn problem? ;)

The burn problem is probably best solved by dodging, having byes or hoping he mulls like crazy. In game your best hope is to be very agressive and try to avoid dying to price of progress.

With regards to natural order it is naturally weak to your main mana denial, hymn counter plan. As long as you keep that plan up you should be fine. The big challenge is actually not the combo kill, but the fact that these decks are perfectly capable of playing normal magic, i.e. you have to do a bit of balancing depending on how all in they are on the combo with regards to how much "midrange" stuff you want to board in.

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Originally Posted by colo

How would you construct the MB and SB with the Natural Order/Show and Tell matchup in mind these days? Would you play Phyrexian Metamorph in order to have outs if Progenitus and/or Emrakul rear their fugly heads? Are there any other cards that make this matchup better? And last but not least... any tips on solving the Burn problem? ;)

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Spell Pierce is good against NO/Show decks, but watch out for Red blasts, or their own Pierces.

Against burn... Hydroblast maybe a decent answer, but relatively weak against the metagame. Other forms of Lifegain could help - perhaps Sun Droplet as a multipurpose answer to aggro.