[Deck] Elves Combo

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Originally Posted by rukcus

I was testing a version with 4 GSZ recently and an interesting situation occured. I was comboing off, and ended up with Emrakul being on the bottom 3 cards, with 2 active Glimpses. In order to draw the Emrakul without decking myself, I used GSZ for 0 to shuffle them back in and safely draw the required amount of cards, then cast Emrakul, then cast GSZ again to shuffle back in to prevent decking (again).

It's a small trick, but a definite improvement over previous incarnations of the Emrakul style kill. I could see running 2 GSZ in a normal build now for this reason alone. Also, being able to tutor up Wirewood Symbiote is just gravy too, even if you don't draw cards off it directly.

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Haha I had exaclty the same situation.. 1 active glimpse emrakul beeing the last card... i casted GSZ for 0 2 times before I had Emrakul. My opponent had to laugh :).

Her the GSZ I am currently testing gypsy:
I try to have a very strong combo plan in G1. it is to find out if 2 Achrduid (with 2 GSZ) + 1 warcaller is a good enough aggro option.
In g2 I either side in some hate cards depending on the matchup trying not to hurt the combo that much or if the opponent is likely to side in chalice or canonist, I switch to the Natural Order Plan.

Creatures

2 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Eternal Witness
2 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Warcaller

Instants
4 Summoner's Pact

Legendary Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Green Sun's Zenith

Basic Lands
5 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

Legendary Lands
1 Gaea's Cradle

SB
2 Krosan Grip
3 Null rod
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

Looks good, but you have no outs against Peacekeeper. That's what I liked about wishing into Masticore. There's stuff like Granger Guildmage that you could get with Zenith, Pact or NO.

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Originally Posted by Shabbaman

Looks good, but you have no outs against Peacekeeper. That's what I liked about wishing into Masticore. There's stuff like Granger Guildmage that you could get with Zenith, Pact or NO.

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So far I never saw a Peacekeeper. I think decks that play white side in classic combo hate vs. us. I also think they rather use wrath or moat or magus of the tabernacle to hate out creatures. Peacekeeper does not seem like a good card choice for these decks because most decks that kill with creatures also have removal and get rid of a small creature very easily. So I think altough it would be an autowin vs. most elve builds, it is bad overall and therefore not very common.

Do you have different experiences?

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Originally Posted by catmint

So far I never saw a Peacekeeper. I think decks that play white side in classic combo hate vs. us. I also think they rather use wrath or moat or magus of the tabernacle to hate out creatures. Peacekeeper does not seem like a good card choice for these decks because most decks that kill with creatures also have removal and get rid of a small creature very easily. So I think altough it would be an autowin vs. most elve builds, it is bad overall and therefore not very common.

Do you have different experiences?

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I have seen some peacekeepers, I run a singleton Mortarpod in the board which is nearly always enough because peacekeeper only keeps you from attacking, not from going off. Same for enchantments like moat, confinement etc. i just run a singleton reverent silence.

I checked Matt Elias' Article "Legacy cookbook Spring 2011" where many archetypes and current builds are listed.
2 decks run peacekeeper:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ring_2011.html

1st is dreadstill. here the comment:
"At one point, Dreadstill was one of the key players in the Legacy format, but it hasn't had much buzz of late. However, there are a lot of reasons to consider Dreadstill today. Rich Shay brought Peacekeeper into today's Legacy format, a card that can lock out some strategies, especially Merfolk, a strategy many CB/Top decks struggle against."

If I take a look at the sideboard, I would rather worry about 4 Plague + 2 Perish.

The 2nd archetype listed there with a peacekeeper was doomsday combo.
In the SCG Open I also found an U/W landstill build with 3 peacekeeper in the SB and 1 CB/Thopter with 1 Peacekeeper (Both in Top 16).

So, I was wrong.. the card is more popular has more value than I thought...

Still not sure if it is worth to sacrifice a SB spot for it... in all lists and SB that I saw, there were many other things to worry about, which would be more likely sided in, being played more often...

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Originally Posted by catmint

I checked Matt Elias' Article "Legacy cookbook Spring 2011" where many archetypes and current builds are listed.
2 decks run peacekeeper:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ring_2011.html

1st is dreadstill. here the comment:
"At one point, Dreadstill was one of the key players in the Legacy format, but it hasn't had much buzz of late. However, there are a lot of reasons to consider Dreadstill today. Rich Shay brought Peacekeeper into today's Legacy format, a card that can lock out some strategies, especially Merfolk, a strategy many CB/Top decks struggle against."

If I take a look at the sideboard, I would rather worry about 4 Plague + 2 Perish.

The 2nd archetype listed there with a peacekeeper was doomsday combo.
In the SCG Open I also found an U/W landstill build with 3 peacekeeper in the SB and 1 CB/Thopter with 1 Peacekeeper (Both in Top 16).

So, I was wrong.. the card is more popular has more value than I thought...

Still not sure if it is worth to sacrifice a SB spot for it... in all lists and SB that I saw, there were many other things to worry about, which would be more likely sided in, being played more often...

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Ofcourse there are other, more important, things to worry about. But I would HATE it when I manage to combo off through the more common hate and then get stomped by a peacekeeper. its not like you have to dedicate alot of cards here.. 1 is enough (mortarpod/masticore) and still the rest of your sb can be tuned to beat more common hate cards in your meta.

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

Ofcourse there are other, more important, things to worry about. But I would HATE it when I manage to combo off through the more common hate and then get stomped by a peacekeeper. its not like you have to dedicate alot of cards here.. 1 is enough (mortarpod/masticore) and still the rest of your sb can be tuned to beat more common hate cards in your meta.

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1 SB spot is a lot for me. Since I use 5 for NO, Prog, there is not so much left. adn the balance between GY, combo or control hate is not easy..
How does your sideboard look?
mine:
2 Krosan Grip
3 Null rod
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

..maybe if I once loose to a peacekeeper, I will change my mind. :)
hehe

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Originally Posted by catmint

..maybe if I once loose to a peacekeeper, I will change my mind. :)
hehe

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I think that's a good attitude. But with this being a forum and all, where we like to nitpick over every detail in theory, I found it was my job to point it out ;) If there'd be a Peacekeeper heavy metagame I'd rather stick to the Storm plan instead of sideboarding odd green cards to answer. That, or the wishboard.

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Originally Posted by Shabbaman

I think that's a good attitude. But with this being a forum and all, where we like to nitpick over every detail in theory, I found it was my job to point it out ;) If there'd be a Peacekeeper heavy metagame I'd rather stick to the Storm plan instead of sideboarding odd green cards to answer. That, or the wishboard.

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I was also thinking about that banefire or grapeshot would help vs. that problem. But since there is no Birchlore in my current list its not an option...

I've seen some versions with a singletone Ulamog to preventing things like this (also helps for a Moat/Confinement, not only rely on Emrakul's annihilator 6). If I had to choose between Mortapod and Masticore, maybe Masticore it's a better option due to it's tutorable with Pact, GSZ. I know that if we want to side this is to the extreme position in which we go off and a Peacekeeper stops us, and we have Glimpse to draw it and also Mortapod cost less mana, but I prefer casting Emrakul and after that, tutor a Masticore to kill Peacekeeper, ¿also Triskelion? Hurricane is too risky but you don't need another color splash or Birchlore in maindeck, altough a singletone Birchlore maybe it's possible.

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Originally Posted by abel_lg

maybe Masticore it's a better option due to it's tutorable with Pact, GSZ.

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Both Pact and GSZ only search for GREEN creatures. Living Wish is the card you're looking for,otherwise Mortarpod seems good alternative. If you're looking for Hurricane style kill, Squallmonger would be the card you want.

I just searched the thread for "aluren" and only found mentions of it being played against the deck as a matchup. I was wondering why Aluren hasn't shown up in any of the deck lists, given that every creature is 3 mana or less (except for a few) and there is a point at which eventually you start generating mana with the combo.

Since Aluren only costs 4 to play, this seems rather easy to drop mid-combo given that nettle sentinel is granting you additional mana each rep. Once Aluren hits, wouldn't the combo essentially play your deck without fail without having to tap any of your creatures, this would make something like Birchlore Rangers allow you to storm off much easier.

Though I notice the discussion has turned more into an either swarm them / ramp up to emrakul, is the storm variation not playable anymore? But even with the big creature variant, having Aluren machine-gunning your creatures on the field would actually allow you to drop Emrakul, potentially, on turn 2, grant the extra turn, then on turn 3 swing out for the win.

Also, why is Pact of Negation kind of absent? After reading things like "Hope they don't have a board wipe if this doesn't happen to work." -- Pact of Negation is easily playable and payable in the deck and you would surely draw a few throughout going off.

...now I'm interested in building a new sick elf combo deck :D
who wants to help?
aluren plus concordant crossroads teh epic win.

Didn't even know Concordant Crossroads existed, that's another card that would basically 100% guarantee the combo to go off full blast if you can start tapping Priests / Archdruids to keep the drive going.

Combo elves just top-8'd a 100 player tournament in my country last weekend:

16 Forest
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Elvish Archdruid
4 Heritage Druid
1 Viridian Zealot
3 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Birchlore Rangers
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Regal Force
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Summoners Pact
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Mortarpod
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Thorn of Amthyst

4 pact AND 4 GSZ seems interesting. 1 Warcaller and 1 Archdruid as agro plan could be enough as aggro plan seeing the many ways to tutor for them. Sideboard seems fine, I would run Mindbreak trap instead of Thorns I think, and maybe a singleton gaddock teeg. Also: anyone considered 1 dryad arbor in a list that plays 4 GSZ? I havent tested GSZ lists yet so maybe someone else could give me some insight on this. I do agree on not playing priest of titania, I never liked that card in my testing. Let me know what you think!

For those talking about concordant crossroads and aluren, please read the thread before posting. You will see many arguments for why they are not good ideas.

I really think the wish build with vines in the board is pretty phenomenal in testing. I am still pretty set that GSZ is not the route to go.

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Originally Posted by k2thej

For those talking about concordant crossroads and aluren, please read the thread before posting. You will see many arguments for why they are not good ideas.

I really think the wish build with vines in the board is pretty phenomenal in testing. I am still pretty set that GSZ is not the route to go.

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I apologize, I searched the thread for the word "Aluren" and found exactly 6 posts, 3-4 of which were quoting the 5th about the Aluren matchup and a 6th also talking about the Aluren match up, none of which discussed why Aluren would be bad in the deck. So is there a different thing I should be searching other than the exact name of the card I was looking to find discussion for?

It seems odd that there are many arguments against the card that all completely avoid mentioning it.

Aluren is typically not run in Elves because of it's mana cost. For 4 mana, you can generally cast 4 elves. For 3 mana you can cast Food Chain and run Elvish Visionary look-alikes.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Combo Elves variant utilizing Glimpse of Nature, Heritage Druid, and Nettle Sentinel in conjunction with creature tutors (Summoner's Pact, Green Sun's Zenith, and/or Living Wish).

I'm considering it in conjunction with those cards, which may be bloated, but if you had a hand of Aluren and 4 Elves with Glimpse active and were able to produce 4 mana, casting Aluren would be strictly better as the following elves are all free. This would draw 4 cards for 0 mana, to which any creatures amongst those 4 cards will draw N cards for 0 mana and so on, the moment a Wirewood Symbiote is found in the deck, unless they somehow stop the combo, you win with whatever win condition you wanted to use anyways.

Your second statement implies that what I'm talking about is offtopic--suggesting that Aluren could be used to supplement the combo is about as offtopic as suggesting that you could instead use Emrakul over Grape Shot / Brain Freeze as a win condition for the deck, since that's already occurred I don't think discussing the addition of Aluren is worthy of a new thread.

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Originally Posted by Kich867

I'm considering it in conjunction with those cards, which may be bloated, but if you had a hand of Aluren and 4 Elves with Glimpse active and were able to produce 4 mana, casting Aluren would be strictly better as the following elves are all free. This would draw 4 cards for 0 mana, to which any creatures amongst those 4 cards will draw N cards for 0 mana and so on, the moment a Wirewood Symbiote is found in the deck, unless they somehow stop the combo, you win with whatever win condition you wanted to use anyways.

Your second statement implies that what I'm talking about is offtopic--suggesting that Aluren could be used to supplement the combo is about as offtopic as suggesting that you could instead use Emrakul over Grape Shot / Brain Freeze as a win condition for the deck, since that's already occurred I don't think discussing the addition of Aluren is worthy of a new thread.

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The whole point of elves combo is that you don't need another card like food chain or aluren to combo. Heritage druid makes this possible. if you do want to truly harness the power of aluren, there is no reason to play elves over any other creature, since elves do not provide any unique advantage to a resolved aluren.

Elves combo works because if glimpse resolves the elves are their own fuel. They are completely self-sufficient. That is the strength of the deck, and trying to find another engine does not utilize this strength. This deck is strongest when everything possible is done to get the engine online, while at the same time having the maximum number of one drops are in the deck.

To sum this up: If your combo fuel is also your engine, then you have a huge advantage. Utilize it.