Miracle Control

If Goblins are siding in Krosan Grips (or Anarchy, sometimes) for Moat and Humility mainly, why not to catch them off-guard with some oddball tech taken from Stax? Magus of the Tabernacle forces them either to spend half of their manabase each turn to keep some numbers on their team, making their ability to explode in one turn less likely (unless in Vial mode, which would mean you'd have lost anyways).

It is also a good blocker that eats everyone of their dorks on block, quite difficult to Gempalm off (if ever that card stays in for obscure reasons), and can't be Tarfired or Sharpshooted, differently from stuff like Peacekeeper. MotT also profits from the solid manabase and can be used also against Merfolk to slow down their team, and against Dredge to force them to go off in one turn (do they still play FKZ?). In general, it helps a lot in gaining time to find Terminus and/or Entreat the Angels, which is exactly what you want (beware to pay for the Angels, though).
Did I also mention he can't be Grudged/Claimed or Pierced?

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Originally Posted by Piceli89

If Goblins are siding in Krosan Grips (or Anarchy, sometimes) for Moat and Humility mainly, why not to catch them off-guard with some oddball tech taken from Stax? Magus of the Tabernacle forces them either to spend half of their manabase each turn to keep some numbers on their team, making their ability to explode in one turn less likely (unless in Vial mode, which would mean you'd have lost anyways).

It is also a good blocker that eats everyone of their dorks on block, quite difficult to Gempalm off (if ever that card stays in for obscure reasons), and can't be Tarfired or Sharpshooted, differently from stuff like Peacekeeper. MotT also profits from the solid manabase and can be used also against Merfolk to slow down their team, and against Dredge to force them to go off in one turn (do they still play FKZ?). In general, it helps a lot in gaining time to find Terminus and/or Entreat the Angels, which is exactly what you want (beware to pay for the Angels, though).
Did I also mention he can't be Grudged/Claimed or Pierced?

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Definitely a cool idea. My only concern is...with Goblins it's really hard to get to 4 mana (given all their ports/wastelands) to even cast the Magus. If you do get it in play...they may still not be too bad off..given they have so many ways to cheat guys into play (they often don't require their lands much..hence why the run 4x ports, 4x wastelands), but definitely out of the box thinking.

In the four mana slot to answer swarms, has anyone yet tested Supreme Verdict? Seems a good choice, but still hard to get to w/ ports and wastelands :(

Stifle is actually really awesome against Goblins. I'm not sure if that would warrant a control deck running a couple just for that MU though...

If Goblins starts becoming a bigger force in the metagame, and therefore something to be concerned about enough to warrant specific/narrow sideboard cards like Magus...

...a black splash for Engineered Plague is on of the best options. Grip or no Grip, it is a massive hurdle for them. Two Plagues is almost always gg. You can also cut a few countermagic spells for a few discard spells in postboard games.

Plague has relevance against alot of other matchups to not be too narrow. Same goes for discard in the sideboard.

This deck has a ton of draw/filter to find Plagues consistently. The deck can also cut colorless lands to splash black, without sacrificing the strength of its manabase.

The problem with this deck versus Goblins is that Terminus just puts all their dudes back into their deck. This deck has probably been thinned by fetching, so you are really only gaining some slight temporary (tempo), on-board advantage. The creatures going back into the deck allows both Matron and Ringleader to retain their value. I think it is time to think about another means to deal with their dudes (see below).

For those of you unfamiliar with tempo, if you don't press your advantage (here a clear board) when you have it, then you are just giving up the tempo you gained. Ideally you would follow up a Terminus with a Jace (same turn) or Entreat (next turn/their turn). Essentially what it comes down to is the fact that Goblins is an aggro/midrange deck that can grind very well due to its card advantage engine. Due to this you may want to reevaluate your role (i.e. who's the beatdown?). Sure they will be swinging faster than you early, but you can't completely rely on your inevitability that you have against other decks. You need to press you advantages when you have them.

If Goblins is dominating your meta, play this in your board: Tivadar's Crusade, then snapcast it if necessary. Then just laugh at them when they have to read it...

Humility/Moat has always been the strongest answer to Goblins. Mass removal tends not to work in the past simply because your clock as a control deck is abysmal. Sweeping and having to deal with vanilla 1/1s is still going to be an issue.

Humility/Moat are prone to grips, but if you have multiple copies of Humility/Moat/EPlague in your 75, it will make the matchup much harder for Gobs. Humility is amazing because it turns off the EtB-trigger of Matron and Ringleaders. Having Humility alone isn't going to save you, you need a combination of Factories/tokens/Battleskull/EPlague in your 75 to seal the deal up. You can't be safe unless you have multiple locks against Goblins if they're packing Grips.

Izzet Charm is being discussed over in the Blade COntrol thread. Anyone up to do so here as well?
I'm pretty sure the card deserves testing!

Izzet Charm is borderline terrible. I could see it making an appearance as a 1-of in a few 75s, but none of those will be UWx Miracles decks.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

Izzet Charm is borderline terrible. I could see it making an appearance as a 1-of in a few 75s, but none of those will be UWx Miracles decks.

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Please elaborate.

Hey guys


I'm currently playing Joe Lossetts list
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/37935

And I was struggling in my matchup (playtest) against EsperBlade running Bitterblossom as well as lingering souls. After side he had SoFI and 6 discard, he boarded out his removal. SoFI was very good against me, so was Jace (obviously) and Discard. Games I didn't open with Top I lost.

I guess my main issue is what to side in and what to side out. Anyone have any good links to someone going into sideboard plans and matchups?

Things I was inclined to side out

- Vendilion clique (as he has a lots of flyers)
- Spell pierce in favour of Red Elemental blast although I don't think this is the right call
- Counterspell
- portent

Things I wanted to board in

- Red Elemental Blast (again not sure this was that good)
- Seal of Cleansing and Disenchant obvisouly
- Terminus
- Baneslayer Angels (this turned out to be pretty bad, he sided out his removal as expected but sided in even more discard and he Jace as a backup)
- Reliq of Progenitus (I like this card a lot, even mainboard, and I think it's needed in this matchup)

I think I maybe -2Clique, -1Counterspell, -1Portent for +2Reliq, +1Seal, +1 Disenchant might be the best option.

I tried boarding out some Swords to plowshares but I'm convinced I need them to take out Stoneforge mystics and possibly equipped creatures to stall the game.

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Originally Posted by Setherial

..I'm currently playing Joe Lossetts list
http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/37935
And I was struggling in my matchup (playtest) against EsperBlade running Bitterblossom as well as lingering souls.

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I recommend cutting one O. Ring + 1x and adding 2 Detention Sphere, as it not only solves token and Enchantment issues but is generally awesome.

Setherial, I do several things differently than you suggested. I think you are right in that you want the baneslayers and disenchant effects, plus one or two blasts. I might also want the third clique. To make room, I would be cutting a mix of swords, spell pierce, and forces. Shaving forces is something that I think most players do not do often enough. I have not played against esper with bitterblossom so my opinion might not be worth a lot, but relic does not seem strong.

I agree with Malakai that izzet charm seems pretty awful in uw control. I spent 20 seconds trying to think of a matchup where I would be happy to have it, and didn't come up with anything.

Joe Lossett

@ klaus
In short:
-Spell Pierce for UR isn't Spell Pierce.
-Shock kills random goblins, fish, Mom, Goblin Guide, and mana dorks. But since this costs 2, it only kills random goblins and Goblin Guides that have already done damage to you. Hell, it can't even kill Goblin Piledriver.
-You have to squint your eyes to think of reasons why most decks would want to cast Careful Study, but I can't think of any for a control deck.

More generally, two mana for effects that are barely worthwhile for one does not a good card make. Would you rather have Lightning Bolt in your deck, or Lightning Helix? Mostly, I just can't think of a deck where I'd rather have the charm than Counterspell.

@ Setherial
-4 Force of Will, -2 Vendilion Clique, +2 Spell Pierce, +2 REB, +2 Disenchant
Maybe a third disenchant effect, and up your Snapcaster count if the deck is prevalent enough. Terminus is fine, but you probably don't want four--three might even be a bit heavy. If your meta already has e.g. tribal decks, you could also look to Engineered Plague to make all of his guys embarassing.

Other options include playing CounterTop Thopters instead, or jamming your own Lingering Souls.

I dont want to return about the topic of goblins again, but if for you is a very very difficult match up or your meta is infected of goblins, you have to splash black rather than red, and put 3 engineered plague in your sb, also you can play duress rather than red elemental blast, is not the same but....

In other hand, two questions:

1)Whats your opinion about playing detection sphere rather than oblivion ring? I think that I prefer detection sphere because is blue.

2) Supreme verdict, one wrath of good that cant be countered sounds sweet, Do you like to play playing 1 supreme verdict and 3 terminus for example ?

Thank you,

Sphere is probably better than O Ring since it can randomly 2 for 1 or deal with tokens and is blue, but it can't be forgotten that one of the matchups we want it most - Show and Tell - it gets worse postboard since it gets hit by Blasts.

@klaus: I agree detention sphere seems powerful, works as another sweeper against tokes. I already cut the o-ring for 1 sphere.

@oarsman & Malakai: Siding out Force is interesting. I used to do this when I was still playing Bant in games that turn into a long grind like the stoneblade matchup. That said I always fear loosing to Jace, in UWx Miracles even more so then back when playing Bant. I will playtest siding out Force and see where it leads, I definatly see the benefits.

Joe, I don't get why you would want a 3th clique in a flying token matchup? Also don't you feel like you need the Swords to plowshares to slow down stoneforge Mystic. They're obviously not awesome in this matchup but they do give you more time to get control.

thanks guys

Losing. Loose describes how tight something is.

You can't afford Force's alternate cost when they're already attacking your hand with discard.

I have used Stillmoon Cavalier in UW Blade vs. EsperBlade to great effect. The only way they can interact with it is a jitte that already has counters, or Jace bounce.

I've piloted the following list with a 4-1 to place 2 in my locals. The Sideboard has 2 Extra-Metaslots which are the 2 Grafdigger's Cage. They should be 1 Humility and 1 more slot I wouldnt see as fixed. Here's the list:

//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
//Creatures
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
//Win
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Batterskull
//Removal/Catch-all
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
//Counterspells
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
//Cantrips/Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
//Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
3 Counterbalance
2 Meddling Mage
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
2 Grafdigger's Cage

I won vs: Affinity 2-0, Canadian Threshold 2-0, Dredge 2-0, Miracleblade(70card-mirrir) 2-0 and lost to DDFT 0-2...


I was totally happy with the mainboard, the sideboarded Counterbalances seem just right. I am not totally sure about the Meddling Mages though. They can lead to occasional blowouts because they're rather unexpected...but as said, not sure yet. Oblivion Ring got swapped to Detention Sphere 5 minutes ago (damn mail! why not deliver it faster!) And, yeah I really like the synergy with Mishra +Terminus / + Humilty... Mishra is one of the best Nimble-Stoppers in the earlygame (though only bad/desperate Thresh players start with a Nimble to hit you, if they have the choice) and trades 1-1 with him lategame, though being susceptible to Stifle....
Ah, and the Marsh Flats got a Polluted Delta which I thought to have lost :P


Any questions about the list?

Greetings

Vendilion Clique deals with Stoneforge about as well as swords does, but it can also attack when their are no tokens in play. Comparing to swords, which does nothing when they do not have Stoneforge. It is not a decision that I am ultra-confident in, but I think I am right.