[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

Aggro-Midrange-Control is a spectrum and, imho, this deck is positioned between Midrange and Control.

It's not classic Control because it just doesn't sit there playing draw go (think Miracles), it's not aggro because it's not aggressive enough (that's pretty clear) and it's a bit threat light to be "classic" midrange. The difference I see between Shardless and pure Control is that you're more aggressively using your resources (lands, graveyard with DRS) instead of just sitting back. There are lots of games in which you'll try to resolve spells on curve (1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, even 4 in the case of Jace) instead of just waiting (hence the Tar Pit argument raised earlier).

Doesn't it depend on the cards you see on the other side of the table? Larsleif mentioned earlier that the deck can adapt to be either control or aggro, as needed. The strength of the deck is that you can play it differently according to the situation you're facing. My guess is that other people have the same problem that I have; I can't adapt!

This problem kind of disappears post-board, though my SB is not built in a manner which allows me to go full on Aggro on my foes. It is quite the contrary, actually. However, what are the matchups were you would rather be Aggro instead of Control? I mean, sure, sometimes you just slip a Tarmogoyf to the battlefield early on the game if there are no things to toy with on your opponent's side of the field and you have no discard available, but still Shardless BUG is much stronger on the late game, thus controlling your opponent until you can sink him or her in your CA is the go-to strategy.

The first parameter I use to identify my role is the archetype I'm playing against. That's pretty simple: if you're up against a deck that can go "bigger" than you (i.e. has the better late game), you're the beatdown. It doesn't mean you're going to cast all your guys non-stop and play like Zoo, but you can't afford to sit back on removal and counters. These are represented by two archetypes: superior Control decks (closer to the control end of the spectrum) and combo decks (their late game is better because it short circuits the game from early stages to "I win" before you're able to develop your game plan).

Against assorted aggro decks you're obviously taking the Control role. The blurry lines start when you face midrange decks (think Stoneblade, some slower Delver variants). In these games it will all depend on your hand, draws and the board state. It's not so easy to define a role before a game starts in these matchups - you and your opponent may have control-ish starts or aggressive starts. Skill and practice with the deck are a decisive factor here.

Of course, MtG is a nuanced game and these definitions are simplified. You'll have to adapt to what your starting hand and draws present to you. Sometimes against Combo you won't be able to be aggressive, but rather play like a classic Control deck and sit back on discard and counters because you can't afford to kill your opponent fast enough and (almost) tapping out for a Goyf is suicide.

Here are some good articles on the topic:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/f..._Beatdown.html

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/f...-Beatdown.html

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=2754

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Originally Posted by Dissection

Have any of you guys tried Mana Maze? I'm looking for a 1 or 2 cmc permanent we can cascade into for combo MUs, more specifically Omnitell and storm. MM is great and I have a playset, but the more I play discard the more I don't like it.

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This comment got overlooked but I think it's worth discussing. I have not considered playing Mana Maze in the sideboard. I could see having at least one copy against combo. I would run it over Arcane Laboratory because it costs 2. The guys splashing W for MM probably wouldn't bother with this.

I guess the question to consider is: How much does it really hurt combo?
Mono-U Omni-tell was a big presence at a few recent events. Mana Maze would slow them down but not stop them from wishing for a Wipe Away.
ANT/TES would probably also have to bounce or AD it before they could go off with all their black spells.
It could stop Elves from having a big turn with Glimpse.
Burn could probably play around it by casting instants during your turn.

Cascade Mana Maze and your Shardless Agent gets countered (?).

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Originally Posted by DOM

Cascade Mana Maze and your Shardless Agent gets countered (?).

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No, it will resolve. Maze prohibits casting of spell, it does not counter them.

Just played Shardless BUG for the first time at a larger tournament. As a long time BUG Delver player I wanted to try something new but still a bit familiar. The results were encouraging to say the least, as I won the 31 person event and didn't drop a match. I played the following list:

"Shardless Bug"
Creatures (14)

4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells (24)

1 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Visions
4 Abrupt Decay

Lands (22)

2 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 SWamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Bayou


Sideboard (15)

1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Disfigure
1 Golgari Charm
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Sylvan Library
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Null Rod

Played the following matchups:

Rd.1 (W 2-1)- Parfait:
One of our local players dredged up a sweet old list with some cool new updates. Game two he played a turn two Blood Moon, but discard combined with a loose keep by him in G3 was enough.

Rd.2 (W 2-1)- Death and Taxes
Game one feels close or slightly negative, but post board this felt great. I lost G1 to Mirran Crusader beats, but G2 and 3 were a breeze with disfigure, toxic deluge and golgari charm.

Rd 3 (W 2-0)- BUG Delver
He was on the Stifle variation, but overall this MU felt amazing. We just go bigger and have a way better late game.

Rd 4 and 5 (ID)-
It was a 31 person event, so I was able to double draw and make top 8 as the 3rd seed.

I will post the details of the Top 8 later, as well as changes I'm going to test going forward. If you have any suggestions on the list I would be most appreciative!

Congratz on your results and welcome to the deck! :)

I don't really have time to discuss your specific list much, but my advise is to read the thread, even posts pretty far back, good things have been posted there.

Thanks LarsLeif! I definitely checked out the thread to come to this list, but will continue to read back on old posts. As promised here are the Top 8 results as well as proposed changes:

Top 8 (W 2-1)- RUG Delver
The Stifle/Wasteland pressure feel very good against us, but I made sure to keep land heavy hands when given the option. Liliana of the Veil was amazing in this matchup, as RUG is very threat light. I left in the Hymns on the play, and swapped them for Thoughtseizes on the draw (a pattern I repeated often over the course of the tournament).

Top 4 (W 2-1)- RUG Midrange
A RUG deck with more of a treasure cruise era feel. He was playing Young Pyromancer and Dig Through Time. I lost game one to a True Name Nemesis, but overall this felt great. We were both trying to play a card advantage game, and Shardless just does that better than anything else. Deluge and Golgari Charm postboard were huge.

Finals (W 2-1)- Omnitell
Hymn to Tourach did serious work. Truth be told I felt fortunate to win this matchup as my board was not well suited for it. I really only had the Thoughtseizes to bring in. An awesome curve of Deathrite Shaman into Lily, into Hymn, into Jace with Force backup was enough to take down G3 and the win!

Maindeck Changes:
I want to cut one FOW from the main deck and move it to the board, thinking of playing a singleton Ponder here. Keeps my blue card count up while helping me filter cards.

Sideboard Changes:
Cut two Blue Blasts, one Maelstrom Pulse, and one Nihil Spellbomb.
Add one Seal of Primordium, one Force of Will, and two Flusterstorms.

@SFL-Brainstorm, congrats on the result and props for the reports! Do you know if SouthFloridaMagic will be posting videos of all your matches?

A few questions:

1. What was your decision process not to include Sylvan Library in the main deck? Did you sideboard it in for any games?
2. Was Baleful Strix used/useful?
3. Any problems with your mana-base? Only one basic? All good?
4. Did you find yourself needing a 3rd Wasteland?
5. Why Seal of P. rather than Krosan Grip?
6. Why no love for Maelstrom Pulse? ;-)

1. I didn't include Sylvan Library or Toxic Deluge in the main so that I would have room for the third Hymn to Tourach and the one of Thoughtseize to better improve my combo matchup. I boarded in Library in all of my fair/grindy matchups.
2. Baleful Strix was awesome and I only ever boarded it out in the finals. It is absolutely amazing against any Delver deck as it is always a two for one and matches up great against Goyf.
3. The mana base was good in testing and all tournament. I honestly don't think the deck can afford a second basic, and the Swamp was important to reliably cast Hymn on turn two.
4. The two Wastelands were good. I wish I could support a third but I think it would strain the mana base too much.
5. Seal of Primordium was suggested to me and it sounded great. Being able to cascade into it and play it even when we don't have a target is nice. It is also sweet to put into play against Omnitell off of their Show and Tell. I don't like having to hold up mana every turn with this deck.
6. The Maelstrom Pulse was a clunky catch all answer in a deck with a lot of clunky pieces already. The fair matchups were great post-board already, so it doesn't seem necessary. If I wasn't playing Tar-Pit I would include it for killing Jace.

Is anyone else feeling that Tarmogoyf is the worst card in the deck?
Sure he is beast in some matchups but in others he is just too clunky, fragile or useless. I've been realising last week, that one of our main ways to win, creature beatdown most of the time led by goyf, is a pretty frail plan. Other than that we have Jace(,DRS, Agent), and maybe Tarpit.
That's when I started thinking how are we gonna win, if we don't have a safe and/or robust way to win matches to begin with?
We don't have Entreat like Miracles or many high impact treats like aggressive style decks.
What does all our cardadvantage and adaptive play uses us, if we can't win for sure?
Maybe I am completly wrong or maybe some people are feeling the same way. Let me know it ;)

I have been toying with Thopter Foundry Combo lately to tackle that problem but haven't come to a conclusion yet. Maindeck could look like this:
4 Shardless Agent
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Baleful Strix
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Abrupt Decay

SB:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Meddling Mage
4 Duress
1 Savannah
1 Engineered Plague
1 Force of Will
2 Pithing Needle

Here I want to discuss mainly the swap Goyf for Thopter but I am also open for critisism on anything else in that list :)
I'm looking forward to hear your opinion on that.

No... I have not noticed that Tarmogoyf became inferior out of the sudden. It is our main beater for a reason.

Anyway, there was a user, Tons of Fun, who had included the Thopter Sword package instead of Tarmogoyfs as well a while back. After a while he stopped posting but you could dig his comments for more input regarding the matter.

I personally think that Tarmogoyf is enough.

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Originally Posted by DOM

On a slightly unrelated topic, to those who attended this MCM event: were there any side events? What was the overall tournament experience like?

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I just came across your post and would like to direct you to my MKM Rome Review on my website. It has pretty much info on everything you asked for

http://itsjulian.com/?p=1383

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Originally Posted by Holiday

This comment got overlooked but I think it's worth discussing. I have not considered playing Mana Maze in the sideboard. I could see having at least one copy against combo. I would run it over Arcane Laboratory because it costs 2. The guys splashing W for MM probably wouldn't bother with this.

I guess the question to consider is: How much does it really hurt combo?
Mono-U Omni-tell was a big presence at a few recent events. Mana Maze would slow them down but not stop them from wishing for a Wipe Away.
ANT/TES would probably also have to bounce or AD it before they could go off with all their black spells.
It could stop Elves from having a big turn with Glimpse.
Burn could probably play around it by casting instants during your turn.

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I think it could be problematic against Storm since they can play blue spells, artifact spells and even green spells between their black spells. Against Omni Tell it can slow down their development but it opens line such as Show and Tell, you can't counter it, into Omniscience cast Emrakul or cast sideboarded Pyroblast, Cunning Wish, Eladamri's Call, Emrakul.

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Originally Posted by Varal

I think it could be problematic against Storm since they can play blue spells, artifact spells and even green spells between their black spells. Against Omni Tell it can slow down their development but it opens line such as Show and Tell, you can't counter it, into Omniscience cast Emrakul or cast sideboarded Pyroblast, Cunning Wish, Eladamri's Call, Emrakul.

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Exactly. Unfortunately this is the line I got to as well...it's a cute little card, but isn't what we're looking for. I've trawled through Gatherer a few times with no luck. Can't there just be a 2CMC permanent in our colours that says 'You opponent can't go to school' :(

I had a nice little 4-0 at my LGS on Tuesday, playing against Necrotic Ooze reanimator, Dredge, DnT and RUG Delver. I didn't take notes I'm afraid and my memory is a little hazy, but I wanted to try a bunch of 1-ofs.

The Loam maindeck is in the 23rd land/Ponder slot and has really over-performed. The Tasigur, Clique and DTT I rarely drew, but I'm not particularly convinced. While his ability may be nice in the late game, Tasigur is just a worse goyf as Shardless usually make goyfs 5/6 or higher due to the multiple card types. Clique has been alright in the past, and it's nice to have a bit more stack interaction but ultimately it might not be needed. DTT...well, it can be backbreaking, but this probably isn't the deck for it.

I've moved away from MD discard a long time ago and not looked back, but I'm wondering with the rise of Omni Hymn could make a return. Strix has usually been in these slots but I'm unsure on how good it is currently, probably not very.

Apart from the Lotion Thief which is a bit of fun the SB was fantastic.

4 DRS
4 Goyf
4 Agent
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tasigur

3 Liliana
2 Jace

4 Brainstorm
4 Vision
4 Decay
4 FoW
1 DTT
1 Loam

1 Sylvan Library

4 Delta
4 Verdant
1 Misty
1 Strand
3 Sea
2 Trop
2 Bayou
4 Waste
1 Swamp

SB
1 Scrubland
4 Meddling Mage
2 Leyline otV
1 Pithing Needle
1 Lotion Thief
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Night of Souls Betrayal

I've had a lot of success with this recently, and will likely play something similar at SCG Worcester:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Dig Through Time OR 1 Sylvan Library
1 Ponder

2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Duress
3 Disfigure
1 Null Rod
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Force of Will
1 Krosan Grip

I'm considering cutting the second Tar Pit for a second Trop or mixing up the Bayou/Trop numbers to better accommodate Dig. Ponder is the very definition of average, but it does smooth things out; Sylvan has worked fine in that slot in almost all circumstances as well. These changes, along with the Meddling Mage sideboard package, have all seemed pretty equivalent in terms of performance. Honestly, the deck just feels very well positioned right now and has game against everything you need to have game against. I'm especially happy because of how much Grixis Pyromancer nonsense I've run into and how often people board in conditional cards like REB against me.

I would cut a Ponder for DTT/Sylvan Library.

Were there any problems in running three Wastelands and a Forest alongside 2 Hymn to Tourachs and other colourful spells? Cutting one of them for a 2nd Tropical Island seems like a safer approach.

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Originally Posted by DOM

I would cut a Ponder for DTT/Sylvan Library.

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I've run that way and it doesn't make a huge difference. Ponder does help hold the manabase together in a way that Dig can't though.

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Were there any problems in running three Wastelands and a Forest alongside 2 Hymn to Tourachs and other colourful spells? Cutting one of them for a 2nd Tropical Island seems like a safer approach.

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Again, no. I board Hymn out in most non-combo matchups, so I'm seldom in need of thr most color intensive spells and extreme BG stability at the same time. The third Wasteland is invaluable against stuff like 12Post, MUD, and Lands while being a solid utility player against just about everything else.