No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Don't side out Iok/seize is ok...hymn is too dangerous...in my opinion
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No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Don't side out Iok/seize is ok...hymn is too dangerous...in my opinion
Hymn may hit cards Dredge wants to hard cast. Like Careful Study or Breakthrough. However, it also may hit cards he wants to discard, like Bridge from Below or Ichorid. Ultimately, this randomness is bad. I'd side out Hymn, but I WOULDN'T side out Sinkhole. Oddly enough, being unable to cast anything in Dredge is actually a BAD thing. Inquisition of Kozilek will hit everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
If they can't cast any of their 1 cmc draw spells to 'dredge' faster, it's a significant setback. Night of Souls + E. Plague on Zombies is usually lights out since no Dread Returns can be flashbacked to create zombies. Ichorid and Narcomoeba are extirpated lol.
Take note of the post earlier where somebody saw an opening Cabal Therapy, assumed Dredge, and simply conceded before even playing a land or revealing his hand. I've found that strategy also works against combo and burn very readily and they won't know what to sideboard. It's a sharp tactic that deserves mention.
hi, decided to leave out most 1 cmc cards:
wrench mind seem like a good card.
//Lands
2 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
8 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
//Spells
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
4 The Rack
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Ritual
2 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 The Abyss
4 Wrench Mind
//Creatures
4 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Karakas
I think that with only14 black lands you've too many BB and BBB...wasteland on your urborg should be fatal for you..Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahiscute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
2 tombstalkers
2 cabal pits
1 spinning darkness
-i'm a bit iffy about this configuration for obvious reasons..
how's it working for you..
It did not work.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
I do not know what else to try. I'm quite disappointed with my last results.
Here's mine if you want to try it out. Waste Not is a very good card, and amazing if you have more than one on the board. I removed the Dark Rituals because they are card disadvantage for tempo - we don't need that fast of a start as this is a prison-style of deck, aka it goes for the long game. Waste Not can also help supplement the mana once on the board. I do want to sideboard 4 Dark Ritual vs. combo decks, but haven't decided what to remove yet. I am also considering removing the 1 Ensnaring Bridge for a Sensei's Divining Top as it can be a bitch with all the zombies the Waste Nots can create.
Land
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mutavault
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
12 Swamp
Total: 24
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Total: 1
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
1 Nether Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Inquisition of Kozilek/Encroach
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Waste Not
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Thoughtseize
Total: 35
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
I'll try this deck this weekend:
1 Nether Spirit
4 Mishra's Factory
12 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nether Void
2 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Waste Not
Now this list I am curious about. How do you deal with all the BB costs in your deck? I have had quite a few games lately where having the ritual has saved me soo hard creating the multiple black. I do dislike ensnaring main, side it seems fine. Top seems legit, also unsure if I like the 4 Waste Not. I hated running 4 in modern and have a happy 3 roughly in legacy. How are your match ups vs Tier 1 decks? My biggest struggle lately has been Death and Taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
@ Bruno
24 lands doesn't seem enough with 6 "Pox" effect.
I would do something like
-1 Pox (5 "Pox" Effect is enough)
-1 Sinkhole ("weakest" card of Pox (but a personnal favorite) )
+1 Swamp (to recover from "Pox" effect easily)
+1 Hymn to tourach (2 for 1)
I like cursed scroll a lot.
Most of my opponent use Pithing Needle on Cursed Scroll.
That's the card that annoys them the most.
Liliana is easier to beat than the srcoll.
So I would tweak like that
-1 Waste Not
+1 Cursed scroll (good cardboard is good)
That's my personnal taste, of course.
I'm not a fan of waste not in Pox.
Have you consider Night of Souls' Betrayal maindeck?
A lot of player scoff at the card but a resolved NoSB is hell
for an Patriot Delver deck. Same for DnT, BRUG delver, elves, etc.
It helps all our innocent blood, smallpox, pox and they draw useless card over and over.
What do your sideboard look like and what matchup do you expect ?
Peace.
My field is complicated. Much show and tell, sneak atack, and hypergenesis reanimatorsQuote:
Originally Posted by coricho
Night of Souls Betrayal does nothing in my case.
My idea was to balance the deck with cards 1 for 2. Like this:
*** Land disruption: 4 wasteland, 4 sinkhole, 4 smallpox and 2 pox = 14
*** Discards: 4 Inquisition, 4 liliana, 4 smallpox and 2 pox = 14
*** Removal: 4 innocent blood 4 liliana, 4 smallpox and 2 pox = 14
*** Threats: 1 Nether Spirit 4 Factory and Scroll 2 = 7 more tokens 2/2 eventually put at stake by not waste.
The three slots were Hymn to potentiate Waste Not.
I really like Cursed Scroll but waste not need to keep running in mid or late game with liliana.
I definitely do not like 25 land and not necessarily'll use 6 pox. When I get on top deck mode I always give me bad.
Buuuut, but, I'll listen. A pox take away and put one more land.
My side is:
3 Engeneered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
4 extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ensnaring Bridge
Sorry for my bad English.
It's very rarely an issue, and even then that's due to my ballsy 7-hand keeps. There are 14 lands that produce black mana, not to mention Waste Not which only requires 1B to cast, that creates B mana. As for the playset of Waste Not - it's amazing when you have 2+ of them on the board. It might not work in Modern, but they don't have Hymn to Tourach. So. much. card. advantage. Try it out! The match-up vs. creature decks is strong. I mentioned Storm being the reason I want to sideboard the 4 Dark Rituals, as you want as much hand disruption on T1 as possible. D&T's alright as long as you can get a Pithing Needle. Other than that, most of their cards are 1-for-1s so you can beat 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
For your maindeck:Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Engineered Plague (naming human or Kor if NoSB is already out)
And you'll never hear from D&T ever again. :cool:
What's kind of awesome is a single MD Plague also works against a ton of other decks as a 3 cmc creature Extirpate. You want to kill top decks? Play permanents that punish them for it. NoSB and Engineered Plague on Zombies auto-wins vs. Dredge.
here's what i'll be running on sunday..wish me luck guys..
12 swamp
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 bojuka bog
4 mishra's factory
4 wasteland
4 dark ritual
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
1 pox
4 liliana of the veil
1 nether spirit
3 cursed scroll
2 night of soul's betrayal
1 engineered plague
4 innocent blood
-61 cards
sideboard
2 pithing needle
1 nether void
1 thoughseize
1 trinisphere
1 ratchet bomb
2 surgical extraction
2 extirpate
3 engineered plague
2 spinning darkness
i'll keep you guys posted..
@ zenitramleirdag: how did it went for you?
Just got home, went 3-4-2 at the Legacy open. Will right a decent report when I wake up tomorrow. I think I did acceptably for my first open.
I really like this list! But I have a few questions and observations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teluin
Ever since I saw the completed text on Waste Not I wanted to make this card happen and with the announcement of its CMC I started playtesting with proxies. Bonkotsu already asked about the right amount and you gave the reason I thought of: 2+ in play are awesome and you also want to max your chances of putting it down on turn 2 or 3.
Maindecking rituals makes the deck too inconsistent since they may be a dead draw later on when you need some action. An almost combolike start with blacksource -> ritual -> Waste Not -> Encroach -> Hymn... is too cute to be an actual reason for running them. I don't know if the combo matchup makes them worth for sideboarding but I'll test it.
14 stable blacksources seem way better than the 10-11 (+ rituals) I tested with. I wasn't sure about the total land amount without rituals but 24 look to be good.
You put "4 Inquisition of Kozilek/Encroach". Encroach is obviously awesome with Waste Not and I got my playset last autumn, but when (if ever) do you consider swapping them in for the inquisitions? You have 13 other discard effects that are able to catch real threats.
Which way do you end the game in most cases? It looks like a big 2 dmg beatdown while controlling the opponent plan. Do you sometimes miss a big Tombstalker and have you tried racks in place of the Cursed Scrolls? Cursed Scroll kind of fits Pox's old problem of controlling early and midgame, then falling off a bit because you end up topdecking emptyhanded quite a lot. But we try to fix this with Waste Not and Sensei’s Divining Top which make us 'draw cards'. Is there maybe enough discard incoming to make The Rack work? Or is the ability of targeting creatures too imporant?
In which game situation do you like to play Nether Void? Regarding your own boardstate I mean. For me it looks kinda similar to Standstill which is still a strong card but you absolutely need to know when to cast it or else it will hurt you more than you can actually take.
Sink Hole is an awesome card :) Love to play the alphas.
As you can see from this comment I like to durdle with my decks at home a lot :D But I hope those questions get me somewhere since I've only been playing Pox at my weekly casual meetup for quite some time because it didn't feel strong enough for tournaments. Now my friends hate me so that needs to change.
I loved Teluins list so I decided to try it with minor changes.
Land
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Mutavault
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
12 Swamp
Total: 24
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Total: 1
Spells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
1 Nether Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Waste Not
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Thoughtseize
Total: 35
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Zuran Orb
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
This being my first open and first big legacy tournament I figured it would be a big learning curve, I always follow legacy streams and articles but rarely do more than OT, IQ, or anything. Decided to write down player names and what they were playing, tried to write down cards to remember what mistakes I made to help me learn from them.
Round 1: Faithless Mud WIN
This deck was strange, I am very used to playing against normal Metalworker versions but never ones using Faithless Looting and Goblin Welder
Game 1: He did his cute shenanigans and got a Sundering Titan in turn 2, and would recycle it and a Wurmcoil Engine to make my life miserable.
Game 2: Boarded in Leyline of the Void and Pithing Needle was incredible easy. Got out the Leyline, would hit his hand hard and his lands, not much he could do
Game 3: Rinse repeat, this time he chose to play Trinisphere Turn 1 instead of worker, either way I could deal with it so no worries
Round 2: Imperial Painter (turns out this guy got 13th place) Loss
Game 1: His struggle was real, I kept him off of cards in hand and lands. He got out a Grindstone and I was able to hit 3 of his 4 Painter's Servant Proceeds to then topdeck the 4th and that was it.
Game 2: Put in Chains of Mephistopheles and Pithing Needle I had a slower start, eventually Jaya Ballard, Task Mage got rid of it and got there.
Round 3: Esper Deathblade Draw
Game 1: Relatively easy, I would hit his threats, keep him off of lands, and sat back behind Nether Void and withered him away.
Game 2: Void and Chains did real work here, unfortunately I couldn't hit my Needle to shut off Jace, The Mind Sculptor to save me from his ult
Game 3: Went to time
Round 4: No Show Little victories
Round 5: Loam Depths Loss
Game 1: Took forever, I could hit the Dark Depths or the Thespian's Stage but he could just recycle them back and eventually I lost
Game 2: Boarded in Leyline and Needle, had a strong opener so I thought I could do without for a few turns then draw into them, I was sadly mistaken
Round 6: Sneak & Show Win
Game 1: He went off insanely fast and got me, wasn't much I could do I feel
Game 2: Needle, Chains, and Liliana did real work here. He was able to get in with a Griselbrand once and I was able to shut him out after that
Game 3: Crucible and Needle were out (needle on Sneak) and he breached an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn got rid of all my lands and would play them from Crucible, kept him off of cards, withered him away staying at 5 life
Round 7: Loam Depths Loss
First I need to say that there is a special place in hell for people who play land decks in legacy
Game 1: Same shit different player
Game 2: Alright I got this, Double Leyline and Needle on Thespian's Stage. Nope, Krosan Grip on Needle and go off turn 2. Had Top out looking for an answer to the creature with zero luck
Round 8: Esper Deathblade Draw
Game 1: Shut him out easy, kept him off of lands and got out the Void
Game 2: He got there too fast for me to deal with sadly, very fast few turns
Game 3: Went to time, I withered him away to 5 life while I was still at 16, he claimed he could still beat me however I was going to draw into a Smallpox and could Scroll and Manland him down.
This guy I need to make a special note for. I asked politely if he wanted to concede and he said no, no worries. Game 3 he asked me to shuffle faster to finish the match, however he took his sweet ass time Brainstorming which cost us to go to time. After the match he proceeded to tell me that my build was bad and that it didn't have answers to things like his did.
Round 9: Death and Taxes Loss
Game 1: Locked him out hard, Void, no lands, no creatures could survive.
Game 2: I kept a poor hand and paid for it.
Game 3: This one I made the most mental notes on because of my own miss plays. Had Plague out on Elementals and Humans to keep him from doing much. First big mistake, I hard casted Nether Spirit vs discarding with Liliana. Reason this was dumb was he just Plowed it =/ Second big mistake, I reminded HIM of my tabernacle trigger on his upkeep right as he was about to draw a card. Would have been GG.
I can say I learned a lot. I know what I did wrong and how to fix it. My main changes to the deck might be swapping IoK for Encroach out of curiosity, an Ensnaring Bridge to the side, and maybe a card to deal with Storm althought I didn't see any storm players.
Assholery at its finest. I've been told that you can actually have a judge check for stalling. CounterTop idiots have been known to do that. Little note, if it takes more than 2 minutes to decide what to do with 3 cards, in a timed match, you should most definitely ask a judge for assistance on that. Make sure to whisper it so the enemy doesn't know. I ran into a SDT user doing this. He'd SDT sometimes 2x in a turn while mumbling to himself. I got him DQ'd when I asked a judge to observe a game for 2 turns. For the record, serious players should use rules so jerks get called out. The community can be toxic with circumstances like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkotsu
Sad part is that I have had to deal with level 1 and 2 judges going the slow play route more than anything. Im not as upset about slow play as I am you telling me my deck and build are bad. I beat you didn't I? I was going to beat you next turn had you not taken forever brainstorming right? I dont like to think one bad apple ruins a bunch due to the fact that my magic community is great, and so far I have made more friends than anything through the game, however it does put a sour taste in my mouth at the end of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata