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Lightning Storm turns the combo into a kill and occasionally kills a creature.
Wheel of Sun and Moon turns the combo into a soft-lock and occasionally hoses Ichorid/Loam.
Honestly, I don't see an improvement here. The FoW soft-lock is pretty useless if, for example, you're staring down lethal damage on the board.
If you added 1x Seathing Song you could do infinite damage in one turn. Although its not necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
It would still make no sense since you will waste more slots for a softlock-combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Gilmore
The the "win-now" combo which is actually even more compact than your suggestion is still superior.
I think a majority of people who run Swan combo agrees that 3 Swan and 4 Chain is the way to go. Throwing 1 Conflag or 1-2 Lightning Storm makes the deck go from "zOMG I is drawin' muh library gettin' teh CA" to "pewpewpew i win" at the low cost of having to play 2 slots more max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
This whole Wheel business sounded cool to me at first, but winning right away sounds way better than winning over a few turns. Even the drop-all-my-Goyfs method may take time.
Anyone have insight as to which finisher is better? Conflagrate or Lightning Storm. I could see 'Flag being Extirpated or Crypted and so forth, but what if my opponent has a land in hand and waits until the LS is at lethal?
No, i play 3 Swans and 3 Chains because Chains are often a worse burnspell than... say, Fire//Ice.Quote:
Originally Posted by chokin
And anyways, if you can resolve Swans, you can abuse the Lightning bolts as Ancestral Recalls. I never had big problems finding a Chain when Swans were out. And even if I didn't, I backed it up with CBalance-Top and defeated my opp via beatdown.
I guess i will try lightning Storm as well, because Clemens' explanation sounded quite logic:
Copy the last Chain onto your opponent (17), swing with Swans (13) and then Lightning Storm with 5 Lands discarded (0), leaving you enough lands to misdirect the Storm if your opponent does.
But I still think that this is quite shaky, that's why i play Conflagrate. The advantage is that you don't need LANDS and can inflict lethal damage without attacking or dealing any damage before without the risk to die to it (even if your opponent WOULD play Misdirections, just shoot X-1 to his head and 1 on... his Goyf or whatever so it has got multiple targets).
The disadvantage is that you will never going to hardcast Conflagrate ever, Lightning Storm can actually kill a creature.
But my reasons not to play lightning Storm are pretty bad, just decide by yourself what plays more smoothly for your feeling.
I have been testing thres swan during the last days and in my opinion UGR Threshold tempo is a more consistent deck in the actual metagame.
Since we are turning threshold into a combo deck, what I figured I would do would be to ask for people to list their sideboards for an unknown meta right now for the decks that havn't gone combo and the ones that have just to see if there is a huge difference, if there is any new tech that could really help: Right now I have not tested any of the things on the last 2 pages with swan and the combos, I have stuck with a tempo version that has done very well with me.. Here is my sideboard.
3 pyroclasm
2 submerge
3 krosan grip
3 trygon predator
2 engineered explosives
2 tormod's crypt
The one card that is not talked about is submerge, which in the past has kind of been my deathmark against goyf for this deck, my friend who is the one who made this side for me is thinking about raising the count of submerges because they are that good, has anyone else tested this out? And if not hopefully you will.
I have tested them and dismissed them. We found them to be too narrow, but amazing when they can be used. There are no blasts in your sideboard, which is a huge mistake.
Submerge was my tech :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by landstill101
Here, from our January Legacy Event, Hassloch:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12729
I tested them and they are pretty amazing against mirrormatches, it bounces Tarmogoyfs and Mystic Enforcers onto the top of the library. To a degree, this also generates speedadvantage and can be done even though the opponent has got Counterbalance out.
Unfortunately, I have not found any other matchups against which they could be good yet, but I guess it's pretty funny against UG Dreadstill or something similar.
Good find. Even Alan Comer is using your tech, now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
...Wait. That's the original Miracle Grow list, from seven years ago. I'm not sure you can claim credit for this one. :wink:
Oh, ok, but 7 years ago... Submerge wasn't played ever since Legacy has established (except in Solidarity to bounce UGW threshold's Meddling Mages).Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
I didn't knew there was someone who played it. 7 years ago, I was 11 years old, and just switched to high school (well, the equivalent to High School since out school system is different).
Ok, it was Alan Comer's tech and i simply revived it because it's really good in the current Goyf-infested metagame. Is that ok? :tongue:
Four months or so ago Kreiger and I were using submerge in the SB of our UGr Canadian thresh builds, it was ok. I personally tested it well over a year about before Tarmogoyf was out because of how hard it was to deal with Mystic Enforcer and other large fatties it the format. It was also, only ok. I feel that a metagame requireing huge amounts of anti-tarmogoyf sb cards should signal a color change. Nothing is better in the mirror than 5c thresh.
Nothing special here...move along....move long.
What do you think about playing Mind Harness in the side board?
Mind Harness can be a good tech special againts aggro loam decks, Rocks, Dragon Stompy and moreover It steals goyfs and goyf is played in a lot of decks !!
When any opponent played me a very big creature (like doran, terravore or Coutryside Cruser) I had problems... on other hand Mind harness can steal a monster from Dragon Stompy. Controlling a creature during 2 o 3 turns can be the victory...
Yeah, I'm still looking for asian ones, but I'm chronically broke...Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
Mind Harness was already played in some sideboards. I guess it's also more versatile than Submerge (but against the above mentioned matchups there should be no difference. Except DS obv.)
In my most recent list of Canadian Threshold I play 2 copies of Control Magic for an answer to creatures that I can't deal with. I've been pretty happy with my board so far as the deck is by far the best threshold list out there.
Current Board:
2 Ancient Grudge/Pithing Needle (Metagame)
2 Pyroblast
2 Control Magic
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trygran Predator
3 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge/Pithing Needle (Metagame)
2 Pyroblast
2 Control Magic
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trygran Predator
3 Pyroclasm
Looks like a good but with one defect what do you do againts Ichorid ? Losing without couldn't do anything...
I have seen this new list of thresmoon, a guy from Spain got one top 8 and another top 2 in two 40+ people tourneys in the same weekend.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stifle
4 Ponder
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Fire/Ice
Sb:
2 Trygon Predator
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Moon
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
What do you think about this list?
What is better this list of
the typicial list of thresmoon with blood moon and fledgling dragons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi
First of all, Ichorid is a poor matchup as it is and devoting 3 or 4 slots for crypts in my opinion are not worth it because you are probably going to lose that matchup anyways.
I rather focus on the other matchups in the meta game. I don't believe Ichorid is a major concern, at least in the meta games that I play it. Maybe if more people start playing the deck it will be more of a concern.
In Hadley, I decided to cut needle for grudge because I knew there was going to be a lot of Dreadstill over there and of course I was right.
I would run 4 Crypts in a random metagame right now, but if it known to be Ichorid Light, like mine, I would not run any. Its more of a 4 or none type card. Control magic has no place in that sideboard, it simply costs too much mana. Threads of Disloyalty is often better.
Whats your land configuration for playing 2 control magic in the sideboard ?
8 Fetch lands , 4 Tropicla, 4 Volcanic and 4 Wastelands ??
God no, that's 20 lands. If you want a thrash like base, play 7 Fetches, 4 Trops, 3 Volcs, and 4 Wastelands.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi