[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emidln

The list that I'm likely playing at Gencon is very similar to Pulp_Fiction's maindeck, although my manabase lacks green maindeck.

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Doomsday
2 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Silence
3 Orim's Chant
1 Wipe Away
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Plains

SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Lotus Petal
SB: 1 Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Tropical Island

The maindeck is relatively fast for one of my maindecks but most of it is self-explanatory. The maindeck shaves basics for white duals to help cast chant effects. The two basics were chosen based on what I need the most. Pre-combo, you need blue mana more than anything else, followed up by consistent chant/silence mana.

Speaking of Chant/Silence, Silence is better than Orim's Chant. After testing it more, I can't come up with any reason why you'd play any Chant before Silence. Against aggro, we never want to hold Chant long enough to pay the kicker because it is most effective turn 1-2 to prevent opponents from playing discard and creatures. Remember, if they don't put creatures into play, they cannot deal us damage. Even so, damage isn't very relevant to this build because we can win easily with 1-2 life. The most important part of Chant/Silence in the upkeep is to prevent discard, hate bears, and artifacts. With more lists playing Divert and Misdirection lately as a means of dealing with the upsurge of Zoo, Chant loses quite a bit of utility. Should something happen to deal with the infinite aggro and tempo thresh decks that exist, I'd pick up my additional Chants over Silence, but it seems like roughly 1 in 10 opponents has had Misdirection/Divert recently.

The sideboard probably deserves a bit of explanation. Lands come in with Krosan Grip, potentially for other lands if you're not playing against resource denial but generally in spell slots. Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation fill roles needed in certain Doomsday piles (Pact of Negation edging out Duress in Stifle piles (where you know opp has Stifle/STP on his dude/etc) slightly because I don't really believe people play Trickbind) while being decent by themselves outside of piles. Petal and Cabal Rit provide additional acceleration in the face of aggro (or just places where you need to take out chants but have nothing else to bring in).

I've been considering whether or not I actually need Helm/Grapeshot recently. If I include a LDV in the maindeck (which is a card that I'm afraid that I'm not good enough to use correctly), it becomes not only an out to a lot of different hate (that is generally answered by Slaughter Pact or Chain of Vapor) but has the potential to be assembled out of Doomsday by a combination of cantripping and tutoring into Sensei, Sensei.

---

did you play this at Gencon? I really like the list it also gives me a chance to play my FTV:E cards so I will probably build it, do you have any new changes.

That list is very solid and up-to-date, but when it comes to just straight Doomsday (no IT in the main) I have no idea. If you are looking for a good combo deck to play that is great against everything I would highly recommend the DDFT/ANT Hybrids. FredMaster and I have had considerable success with the lists and I know emidln took a DDFT hybrid to the Legacy GP, going 6-3 (??) but I can't seem to find the list. Here is what a complete up-to-date list of a DDFT/ANT Hybrid looks like:

4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Lotus Petal
4x Infernal Tutor
3x Cabal Ritual
2x Silence
2x Chrome Mox
1x Tendrils
1x Wipe Away
1x Meditate
1x IGG
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Doomsday

The deck is stupid fast and is suprisingly good against blue. As discussed earlier, the first list is a lot slower, but better against CB and Stax/Stompy whereas this list is amazing against everything else and a little worse against those archetypes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

That list is very solid and up-to-date, but when it comes to just straight Doomsday (no IT in the main) I have no idea. If you are looking for a good combo deck to play that is great against everything I would highly recommend the DDFT/ANT Hybrids. FredMaster and I have had considerable success with the lists and I know emidln took a DDFT hybrid to the Legacy GP, going 6-3 (??) but I can't seem to find the list. Here is what a complete up-to-date list of a DDFT/ANT Hybrid looks like:

4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Lotus Petal
4x Infernal Tutor
3x Cabal Ritual
2x Silence
2x Chrome Mox
1x Tendrils
1x Wipe Away
1x Meditate
1x IGG
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Doomsday

The deck is stupid fast and is suprisingly good against blue. As discussed earlier, the first list is a lot slower, but better against CB and Stax/Stompy whereas this list is amazing against everything else and a little worse against those archetypes.

---

I'll give it a try. I seen earlier there was a small discussion on LDV, did anyone test it?

Can anyone explain why Doomsday is considered a good card against blue? It doesn't seem to allow you to play around counterspells or counterbalance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by parallax

Can anyone explain why Doomsday is considered a good card against blue? It doesn't seem to allow you to play around counterspells or counterbalance.

---

Because the card allows you to wait and set up. AdN requires you to be fast, which leads to losses to random FoW + Dazes and stuff like that. Doomsday gives you the opportunity to sculpt a strong hand (it also only need 1 Dark Rit and 1 LED) and go of with multiple pieces of protection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Because the card allows you to wait and set up. AdN requires you to be fast, which leads to losses to random FoW + Dazes and stuff like that. Doomsday gives you the opportunity to sculpt a strong hand (it also only need 1 Dark Rit and 1 LED) and go of with multiple pieces of protection.

---

I mean, AdN also can sculpt hands based around Iggy, which don't require too much, and only 1 life, and still use a lot of protection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lorddotm

I mean, AdN also can sculpt hands based around Iggy, which don't require too much, and only 1 life, and still use a lot of protection.

---

Iggy sucks against counters for obvious reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Iggy sucks against counters for obvious reasons.

---

There is a reason that most of these lists are running anywhere between 4-8 maindeck chants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Iggy sucks against counters for obvious reasons.

---

DDay is just a lot slower than the conventional lists.

/drops by

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

There is a reason that most of these lists are running anywhere between 4-8 maindeck chants.

---

It's still a heck of a drawback to have to cast one more Chant than they have counters (whereas with any other storm engine you only need to empty their hand).

Doomsday is a slower combo card, but the reasons for it being so effective against blue is that you are able to sculpt a great hand and easily combo off. Instead of relying on free artifacts you use actual lands (DDFT plays between 15-18) which is also great as you are not as reliant on rituals, and when you have rituals daze is not even close to a problem. AND, when you have done all the math beforehand, you are going to win, the combo can't fizzle like AdN can. But it is all about the setup, and taking the time to build up a good hand, then attempting to win or just testing the defenses to draw out the counters for setup next turn.

IGGY is not ideal against blue but it is one of the reasons for so many Chant effects, it makes things easier to win. You don't have to worry about Duressing them then casting IGG and they get it all back, Chant ... Tendrils :)

Doomsday also acts like a tutor for bounce/removal against hate and doesn't use the graveyard, unless you want it to use it.

You often find yourself in the situation where the opponent has a Meddling Mage/Gaddock/Halo/Chalice@0/relic of progenitus+some damage to you, etc.
With Doomsday in your deck you don't need to tutor for both the combo and the removal for the hate piece. You just Doomsday and put Slaughter Pact/Helm+Grapeshot/Chain of Vapor/whatever in your pile and combo off.

With SDT in play, 2 lands, and a hand with, say, DD, rit, rit, c.rit you have a hand that wins against those hate pieces said before.

Every combo engine has its problems: AN wants you to have a decent amount of life, IGG wants you to have a opponent with no recurring counters and no graveyard hate, DD wants you to have 2 life and a cantrip effect. Running every engine gives you many more possibilities, and grants you adaptability. If you reduce the engines you will find yourself with a one trick pony that might work greatly sometimes, but that is going to get fucked some others.

Does enemy fetchlands existing mean anything to us? I suppose it's "good" news for the red-centered version. But probably doesn't matter as much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeroenC

Does enemy fetchlands existing mean anything to us? I suppose it's "good" news for the red-centered version. But probably doesn't matter as much.

---

To some extent.

How many extra Fetchlands do we need?
0-3. Our fetches should be able to fetch any mana producing land in the deck, so we adapted to 8 Fetches.

How many Basiclands do we need?
1 Island and arguably 1 Plains. They are fetchable with ease.

In straight DDFT the U/R fetches will probably be played. Other than that, the DDFT variants could use the B/W fetches but probably not even a whole playset, just depends on how many of which basics you play. It could also be an answer to Pithing Needle but I have only had someone Needle my lands twice ever in tournament play.

So I'm just beginning playing Storm combo, and I think the list I'm using is closest to this deck. It's got a fetchland manabase, and has a mix of bombs and protection.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [A] Bayou
1 [ST] Island (2)
1 [B] Badlands
1 [A] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [U] Tundra

// Spells
1 [WL] Doomsday
4 [6E] Mystical Tutor
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [JU] Burning Wish
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [TE] Meditate
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [M10] Ponder
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [A] Dark Ritual
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [US] Duress
1 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [M10] Silence

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WL] Doomsday
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [MM] Pulverize
SB: 2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
SB: 3 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [CS] Deathmark

If I'm wrong and this is not a Fetchland Tendrils deck, if someone who knows more about the archetype could please point me to the right thread to discuss this deck.

I'd certainly appreciate any advice on how to improve my list. So far I like how it plays. It seems to me that the 4 duress and 2 chant effects are enough protection with the mystical tutors to find them.

Is there a better list for beginners to storm to play? I've played storm in Vintage for almost two years, but I'm just getting into it now in legacy, and it seems a lot harder to me.

Also, I think my sideboard is somewhat of a wreck. I'm also considering trying to play 4 chrome mox, as I've been happy to see it every time I do. Or maybe just 3. I don't know for certain. If anyone has any experience playing with different numbers of the moxen, I'd be interested to hear your takes on it.

Thanks for your time. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hungryLIKEALION

So I'm just beginning playing Storm combo, and I think the list I'm using is closest to this deck. It's got a fetchland manabase, and has a mix of bombs and protection.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [A] Bayou
1 [ST] Island (2)
1 [B] Badlands
1 [A] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [U] Tundra

// Spells
1 [WL] Doomsday
4 [6E] Mystical Tutor
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [JU] Burning Wish
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [TE] Meditate
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [M10] Ponder
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [A] Dark Ritual
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [US] Duress
1 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [M10] Silence

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WL] Doomsday
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [MM] Pulverize
SB: 2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
SB: 3 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [CS] Deathmark

If I'm wrong and this is not a Fetchland Tendrils deck, if someone who knows more about the archetype could please point me to the right thread to discuss this deck.

I'd certainly appreciate any advice on how to improve my list. So far I like how it plays. It seems to me that the 4 duress and 2 chant effects are enough protection with the mystical tutors to find them.

Is there a better list for beginners to storm to play? I've played storm in Vintage for almost two years, but I'm just getting into it now in legacy, and it seems a lot harder to me.

Also, I think my sideboard is somewhat of a wreck. I'm also considering trying to play 4 chrome mox, as I've been happy to see it every time I do. Or maybe just 3. I don't know for certain. If anyone has any experience playing with different numbers of the moxen, I'd be interested to hear your takes on it.

Thanks for your time. :)

---

The deck you have is called Next Level Storm (NLS)

In this deck I think 2 is the right number of moxen, it is a slower deck that doesn't need the explosiveness. I would cut a Ponder for a Top. Generally Top is a better card since it is a reusable effect.

Pulverize should Probably be Shattering Spree or Meltdown or Krosan Grip.
I would take out the Tundra for a Scrublands, and a Volcanic for an Underground Sea

In his NLS w/chant emidln uses CoB's too, to make the manabase more reliable.
If you want to discuss the deck, I suggest you go

http://teamstormboards.proboards.com...ead=116&page=4

to that address. And no, I do not know how to make it look like the blue word that just says "here".

Anyway, SDT is the backbone of the deck, it lets you get into dday piles, lets you do silly stuff with LED, AND it even makes your draws run smoother especially when combined with fetchlands. Make it 4, but I'd cut the 3rd cabal rit instead of the 2nd ponder.
Also, interesting that you have liked c.mox, I have on the other hand hated it almost every time it's not a flip off of nauseam and would love to just cut them entirely.

Also, the second silence/chant isn't exactly needed. The deck ran pretty smooth with only the duresses, but I have personally liked to be able to find and play chant before I go igg. W/o it, I would just have to use some other way and brainstorm the useless igg away or something.

I don't really understand why you have ad nauseam in the sb either..

EDIT:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hungryLIKEALION

Is there a better list for beginners to storm to play?

---

It's called ANT, I'd also claim TES to be much easier to play than this (both have threads here worth looking into, but with TES I'd suggest you just read user Bryant Cook's posts instead of the TES thread, much more productive that way.)

We don't have a NLS thread here because all of the people that play the deck seem to have learned about it from Storm Boards (the only thread outside of storm boards that I know of is on the German-language mtg-forum.de).

NLS has slightly less chance of fizzling than UBw ANT with ITs and LEDs. This is entirely due to the ability to win with Mystical+SDT. Otherwise, the decks play identical resources (17-19 sources, 14-15 lands, average CMC of less than 1) with the differences being total colors, amount of cantrips, and amount of protection preboard (NLS runs a lot postboard when we know we need it). If you are just going to play the deck like ANT, NLS will run fine, although you might wonder what the strange cards like Doomsday and Meditate are doing in your deck.

As far as being easier to play, if by easier you simply mean fewer ways to win, then ANT does allow for slightly fewer decisions. There are never scenarios where you go off with Gaddock Teeg or Ethersworn Canonist on the table. You aren't ever calculating the chances of your opponent disrupting or killing you if you build a pass the turn Doomsday pile. You'll rarely worry about the correct color of mana to fetch out. Rarely, if ever in most lists, will you have to consider whether ETW can get you there.

However, games aren't won or lost on these decisions as often as players never make it there due to improperly playing Brainstorm, Ponder, and SDT. Misplaying something like Brainstorm has a very high chance of resulting in a gameloss for a legacy storm deck. This is something you'll need to come to terms with no matter your choice of storm deck (although I suspect that you might already be familiar with these, given these decisions are similar to decisions a Vintage player might be well-versed in from a few years ago).

When you're deciding on a cantrip, you're usually asking yourself, "how can I win?". In ANT the answer is always "get to 3BB with Ad Nauseam, 4BBB with a hellbent Infernal Tutor finding AdN, or 4-6+BBB with a hellbent Infernal Tutor finding IGG". In TES the answer gets a little murkier because you can win for both of those as well as "5BBBR (Wish->IT->Ad Nauseam), 3RUU+X (Diminishing Returns floating X), and 4RR (Wish->ETW)". In NLS, we have all of those (Diminishing Returns is an arguable choice in our wishboard, one that I still test), plus Doomsday options (1BBB, 2BBB, UBBB, BBBB, UBBBB, 1UBBB, 1BBBB, 2UBBB, 1RBBBBBB, 4RUBBBB, and 3UBBB+X to name of a few of the Doomsday in hand scenarios, add in Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor for double the fun (like ignoring Chalice @ 0, Chalice @ 1, Trinisphere)).

The Doomsday piles themselves aren't all that hard if you can follow some simple steps (I outline them in an article on playing Doomsday against hate, but it generally applies to building piles anywhere). You can even just memorize a few of the more common ones (we have a list here), although you'll likely find that simply memorizing instead of looking to the list for inspiration causes you to not be able to build custom piles as easily. Doomsday forces you to know your 75 inside and out, but if you're going to be successful with legacy storm this is a requirement anyway. Once you've done that, Doomsday is just another tutor (granted, one that lets you tutor for enough cards to end the game on the spot).

If you think finding lines of play is hard, I'm going to suggest that not only is NLS not the right deck for you, any storm deck (except maybe Belcher) will have a decision-tree that too high risk (almost any blown decision is a gameloss) for you to be successful with.

Wow, didn't expect to get this large a response.

I wasn't trying to say this deck seems too hard for me, I like how this deck plays. I like the amount of options it has compared to ANT which is far too linear and predictable for my tastes. I wasn't asking if there was an easier deck because I can't play this one, but just in case there was a better jumping off point for someone new to storm in legacy.

However, I like how many options this deck gives me. I want to play a deck with both IT and BW, and I like the 3 different win cons (IGG, AdN, DD). I like SDT a lot in this deck, as its utility is pretty awesome.
I have the ad nauseam in the wishboard because I kept getting into situations where it would be very useful to wish for it. I guess I just like having the option open to do it. So I guess it comes down to that I really like this list, so this is probably the list I'll play, with tweaks as I learn it better and get advice on it.