And Bolt is only good after Servant is in play - by then REB counters Bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
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And Bolt is only good after Servant is in play - by then REB counters Bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
I mean, that you even ask that question reveals how poorly you understand the other side of the argument. Brainstorm is not problematic because it's popular, it's problematic because it's so clearly the most consistent strategy. Its rise in popularity is just a reflection of that. If fewer people are playing brainstorm it's because they've switched to a worse deck or an anti-brainstorm deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Also the idea that people who want to ban brainstorm 'hate blue' is pretty silly. Some people are interested in casting blue cards that aren't in the extremely small set of currently playable blue cards.
And that's the problem the Brainstorm hates have. There is an assumption the format should NOT be dominated by blue. WotC gave each color some mechanics. They gave blue the ability to manipulate cards and counter spells. These turned out to be the two most powerful effects in magic. Banning brainstorm is not going to fix the problem. It's not going to make the for at any less blue. People will still want consistant decks with the ability to say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Cards that do not fit blues theme are the real issues. TNN and Delver are what push blue into the forefront. These ale the cards that need to be thrown out. I have no problem if people want to cantrip into more cantrips. But when they also have access to the most aggresive creature in the format then there is a real issue. Eternal formats will always be dominated by blue decks because finding your powerful cards will always be the main priority.
Maybe we should unban ancestral recall in that case, as it is a more pure representation of blue's color identity.
No you are over thinking it. The format shouldn't be dominated by a card. That's why legacy has no restricted list. It has a ban list. If Necro were unbanned it would be at 80%. It would 32 for 32 legacy GPs. NECRO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technics
He can't untie the two ideas. He actually believes people have hate for a Magic card. Most rational people who want Brainstorm banned are simply observing the facts, the numbers, and the stagnation of a once interesting format.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Blue haters, go play modern, pillar of the format, format defining, some other sideways inane comparison to Vintage which none of the people making the arguments actually play ...
Yes, and don't forget that Brainstorm is actually just as, if not more powerful than Ancestrall Recall because it always draws you three useful cards, and you always have two bad cards to shuffle away, with the fetchland that you always have, all this requires no skill, any monkey with half a brain can do it (this is also why Brainstorm decks never needs to take a mulligan) and so you see it's practically Ancestrall only better because it can't be misdirected, it is never countered and can't be hated because the hate is so weak (please give more powerful hate, Wizards) and it also always flips your delver and hides your hand from discard, rendering discard spells useless in the format, and don't even get me started on Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
:wink:
Are you actually on peyote? I said NOT BASIC lands, I left the card Island out from the discussion. Wasteland isn't banned because it's cost (your land drop) is equitable with it's function. It can be played around far more than Strip Mine. It allows lower curve decks to move forward and fight higher mana curve decks. It also serves as a check and balance with building mana bases. I have no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Great, but that's not a ban criteria. Aggro Necro, Combo Necro and Control Necro can all coexist and they are different decks but guess what Necro is stone broken. So broken in fact you can play it in any archetype. Just like your precious fucking cantrip.Quote:
[*]When in the history of Legacy has there been a card banned which was run in so many decks with such varied play-styles when none of those decks were particularly dominant? Never! I don't understand why this is such an elusive concept. It's very simple.
You heard. That's convincing. They just held the biggest vintage tournament in history on Sunday. People seemed to get along fine with only one Brainstorm. But I'm not sure why the Vintage comparisons keep popping up.Quote:
Back when Vintage restricted Brainstorm I heard a lot of Vintage players saying exactly that.
We're done.
Really? That sounds great. Let's unban Necropotence.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Finally!!Quote:
We're done.
I was just being facetious - chill out.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
My bad. Then again, your penmanship is atrocious!Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
That's speculation; we don't know what Necro would do to the meta. I personally expect a dominant combo deck would emerge.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Ragadless, Necro was banned on account of being card draw too good for Vintage. From the very first Legacy banned list article:
Brainstorm is CA neutral; to compare the two is silly.Quote:
The Power Nine and other cards that are restricted in Vintage on their own merits: This section includes stuff like fast mana (Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Channel, Tolarian Academy, etc.), card drawing (Wheel of Fortune, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Windfall, Necropotence, etc.), and lots of other cards that have proven to be problematically strong, such as Strip Mine, Dream Halls, Mind Twist, Balance, Mind's Desire, and Yawgmoth's Will.
Incidentally, Cantrips are not precious to me. I play Lands (almost) exclusively these days.
Pay attention to the conversations you are joining!Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
- I was responding to Barook who said he had never heard anyone join Legacy because f love for cantrips. I was simply relating my own experience which was different than his.
- What comparison to Vintage? Are you on crystal meth? :tongue: I was referencing Vintage as it was Vintage players specifically who told me they were wanting to play Legacy because of 4x Brainstorm.Just identifying a demographic - not comparing anything.
- Are you calling me a liar?
Yep. If you're resorting to comparisons between Brainstorm and Necro it's probably a good time to take a step back.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
No pls, this is gold.
Waiting for zoo mind desire to be the big deal.
It's not far-fetched at all. All the arguments presented for Brainstorm can be applied to Necropotence as well. I'm not saying that Brainstorm should be banned, but you must be blind if you can't see all these arguments can apply to Necropotence as well. If you can't see that Brainstorm is on a similar power level to cards like Necropotence, you are the one who needs to take a step back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
The criteria for power level is not simply whether a card results in card advantage or not. If that were true, Black Lotus would not be considered a powerful card.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...n-Vintage.html
Obviously this applies to Vintage and not Legacy, but do take a look at the perceived power level of Brainstorm compared to many other restricted cards in Vintage.
The criteria for banning is not simply power level. Why don't you reread the quote I was referencing. Fast mana, along with powerful card draw are two criteria WotC used in creating the Legacy banned list. Efficient card selection is not. Never mind that Brainstorm is "use once" while Necro is a one card engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by HrishiQQ
Isn't that the format where they banned 3Sphere and Lotus Petal? Getting off topic here, but I'm glad to know Brainstorm is good in Vintage.Quote:
Originally Posted by HrishiQQ
It's been said before: cantrips are only as powerful as the cards they find. Hence the power difference in Vintage.
I'm sure an article written back in 2003 or whatever year it was regarding the banlist of legacy is extremely relevant when talking about the format in 2015. Why don't we go back to articles written in 1994 when Ali From Cairo was considered too powerful?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
It is if we are talking about why Necropotence was banned (and why these reasons do or do not apply to Brainstorm).Quote:
Originally Posted by HrishiQQ
All the BS BS is getting tiresome. Can we go back to arguing over Top instead?
You are right, Necro isn't a good comp. It never 32/32 ed a GP. There were people stubbornly playing white decks.
I wonder what's the most broken thing is you could do with Necro. I doubt it could 32/32 GP Top 8s like Brainstorm does.
Re-read the quote I quoted, then re-read my response. Repeat until you understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
I have never not played a BS deck when I wanted to win.
You may wanna brush up on reading comprehension, just saying.
Pretty sure all your posts are just variations of hating BrainstormQuote:
Originally Posted by menace13