[Deck] Imperial Painter

Thanks for the anwers!

I already play a phyrexian metamorph in my sideboard, I like him very much. But it was not enough.
The pridemage is really tough.

Ensnaring bridge is a good idea, but I have no way to tutor it. Maybe I will try the white splash for enlithened tutor.

Has anyone been playing this. I am have been swamped with finishing Medical school, but I was wondering if anyone has tried the new 2 mana planeswalker in a goblin welder shell. Seems like it could have potential.

Seth

I could see the new planeswalker either playing in a heavy goblin welder / faithless looting shell... but potentially more as a koth-esque option for sideboarding?

Pros:
- Another planeswalker, cheap and easy to cast (potentially turn 1)
- synergy with goblin welder

Cons:
- doesn't really do that much to help the deck
- not a win condition in himself, unlike Koth

Example deck:

4 x imperial recruiters
4 x painter's servant
4 x Grindstone
3 x SSG
3 x Chrome Mox
4 x REB
3 x Magus of the Moon
3 x Blood Moon
3 x Faithless Looting
3 x Sensei's Divining Top
1 x Jaya
1 x Koth
2 x Tibalt
3 x Welder
2 x Pyroblast

4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors
2 x red fetches
5 x mountains
2 x great furnace

----------------------
That list isn't tuned at all, but you can basically see the issues. Including him turns you into a red based looting deck. Koth was a great planeswalker as he was a total win-condition by himself with moons. He added to the "must answer this NOW" spells you played.

You could go pure blood moon + planeswalkers + goblin welder and forget about the servant/grindstone plan, otherwise you run out of slots. If you do the looting route, you can run 1cc artifacts and trinket mage with 2 x servant and 1 x grindstone.

Example (again, bad deck, but you get the idea):

4 x imperial recruiters
2 x Trinket mage
2 x painter's servant
1 x Grindstone
3 x SSG
3 x Chrome Mox
4 x Magus of the Moon
4 x Blood Moon
4 x Faithless Looting
3 x Sensei's Divining Top
1 x Jaya
2 x Tibalt
4 x Welder
1 x meekstone
1 x grafdigger's cage / relic of progenitus

4 x Ancient Tomb
2 x City of Traitors
3 x red/blue fetches
5 x mountains
1 x island
1 x Volcanic island
2 x desolate lighthouse
1 x great furnace

-------------------
Sideboard:
2 x painter's servant
4 x REB
2 x pyroblast
4 x lightning bolt
graveyard hate?

@Rath- Yeah I wasn't sure what to make of the card. A two mana planeswalker just felt like it should be tried. And to be honest I have alternated on loveing and hating Faithless Looting. The card is very meta dependant, and I think decks are two fast know to be hoping you can grind out an advantage over a couple turns and with Goblin welder activations.

It is bc of this that I switched back to the E tutor build. The lose of a card hurts, but finding the answer is huge. That and I feel like I need to be able to increase the number of crypts in the deck. It also allows for things like Absolute Law, which def helps your bad matchups.

Rock style decks are still played, although I can not fathom trying to pilot one of them with sneak and show decks and delver decks everywhere. But they are bad for us and I love bolt against them. I will try to get a new list posted, with sideboard with these thoughts in mind.

Seth

Definitely would love to see an updated list.
I am still playing mono-red, loving it. My area has a ton of reanimator, RUG, and stone-blade decks. With Grieselbrand printed, I don't see reanimator dying down anytime soon... but at least those decks do not include Eldrazi!

Overall, I still lose to blue decks with random includes (e.g. 1 spell pierce, 1 spellstutter sprite) as I have no way to see their hand and know what randomness they are running, but generally I can take the U/W or U/B control, most junk decks, and RUG are all fairly easy, except when RUG is running lots of creature hate and kills my painters.

Any thoughts on ways to improve a mono-red build against reanimator?

I recomended 7 hate cards. For me it is 4 Tormods Crypt as it is still the best. Then probably Fairie Macabre as I doubt you have room for 3 Ensnaring bridges in your board. But that us a good start for sure. Currently I run 4 crypts, 1 Fairie, 1 ensnaring bridge, and 3 enlightened tutors. The button line is you about 7-8 cards that directly interact with their strategy and that is the graveyard and attacking. You can mix and match to suit your taste and meta. Although bridge does nothing for Iona.

Seth

So I know there has been much discussion on a "budget" list (meaning mainly without recruiters) so I wanted to know what people's thoughts about mine were. I have been playing this for a while now to semi-decent results. I play with a full set of welders out of necessity to rescue destroyed or countered combo pieces as well as a decent number of spellskites to harass removal for welders and painters as well as act as a decent blocker. It is obviously not as consistent without recruiters, but still holds up well.

Lands:
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
4x Red Fetches
6x Mountains

Creatures:
4x Goblin Welder
4x Painter's Servant
3x Spellskite

Spells:
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Grindstone
4x Faithless Looting
4x Blood Moon
4x Lotus Petal
2x Gamble
4x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyroblast

SB
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Pithing Needle
3x Shattering Spree
1x Pyroblast
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind


Notes about the deck. I know that some people hate and some people love Faithless Looting in conjunction with SDT. I have found that it is amazing at discarding redundant lands or tops (and then forming a mini draw engine with welder). I maximized the number of artifacts for Goblin Welder and he truly shines in this type of deck. Faithless looting also helps draw into sideboarded cards early and can be welded back in. Any dredge player knows that an active welder with a tormod's crypt in the yard is insane. The Sphinx in the sideboard might be considered 'cute', but with 2 gambles, 4 tops and fetches as well as 4 lootings he ends up in your graveyard much more than you would think. He singlehandedly handles burn and RUG Delver. This might be a 'poor man's' intuition painter, but I still really like the blood moon plan since it wrecks so many decks. Blasts are standard and dominate blue decks. Anyways I would appreciate any and all comments.

@Kapnkook-SSG should probably be run over lotus petal, even though the petal has synergy with Welder. I would say 3/3 split would be best for you, but also try Chrome Mox. 6 plus fast red sources is really a must if you want to ride the Moon plan. With respect to Gamble it is a card I have liked in thought but never had great success. Overall I have liked Faithless Looting, but I think it is a meta choice anymore. In faster metas, like now with Delver, Show and Tell, and Lightning Bolts everywhere it loses power as Goblin Welders should be dying and I have often times found it hard to be dicking around spending all my mana and tempo on hoping to draw the correct card. But it stoneblade decks and Maverick are a large part of your meta then I think the situation changes and it becomes much stronger. I do however recommend Lightning Bolt in the 75. It always is the weakest card I know, but when you need it, nothing else is close. Hope this helps


Seth

So I was able to top 4 today at the GPT. I didn't drop a match going into a top 4 then took a prize split for a Juzzam Djinn. I ran the white splash with Enlightened Tutor. Loved the tutor, and will get a deck list and short report up soon. Overall, I was able to beat two decks packing Eldrazi, and to be honest I am currently not worried about them.

Seth

@sroncor thanks for the input. I will definitely test it out in the coming weeks at my local legacy tournament.

Also on a side note I have a few questions about investing in recruiters. Recently I was offered the opportunity to buy 4 recruiters so I was wondering what a fair price for a full playset would be. Secondly, it is probably everyone's fear who decides to invest in the deck, but what are do you guys think are the chances of a possible reprint of recruiter?

I would say less than 225 or so for them is good. English is worth more but for playing they are all the same. I doubt the card would see a reprint in red. A functional reprint in white maybe, but the ability is not in red anymore. Maybe a judge foil but I doubt the price would suffer. Proxy and play the deck is my advice. I would get the cards, but I also have basically all playables and many pimp versions so on that front I am not the best. I think they will be solid moving forward

Seth

Hey Sroncor1, congrats on the GPT result! Care to post your list and any thoughts on IP in the current meta?

The deck isn't in a bad place at all in the meta. A decision on how to handle decks with Eldrazi is the key really. Otherwise your unfavorable matches like burn and rock style(nic fit) are all not good right now. I've been away from a real computer for a but but I will try to get a list and some strategy up Thursday in the am.

Seth

Look forward to it, thanks.

Yo so I have had a couple of musings. I have recruiters now so I can finally join in the discussion about the deck in general. My current list is as follows (i still need 2x city of traitors which is awkward since i have the recruiters) but whatever.

4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain
2x fetch

4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Painter's Servant
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Goblin Welder
1x Magus of the Moon

4x Blood Moon
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grindstone
4x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Spellskite
1x Gamble

SB
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Pyroblast
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Manic Vandal
1x Spellskite
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind


So here is what I was wondering. With 4 faithless lootings, do you guys feel that Chrome mox is a better choice over lotus petal? both are synergistic with welder who really shines with 4 lootings as well. Also, how many petals or mox would be an ideal number (assume that i have 4 cities as well)? And what to cut? I know the first choice many would say would be Gamble, but there are some times you just really need to find a grindstone and a random gamble works wonders. I dont feel that cutting a looting is the correct choice because it really helps your draws once you are under a moon lock and just need more pressure or just to finish out your combo quicker. It also pitches your extra unneeded lands, moons, etc. Regarding cuts, is spellskite necessary in the main?

If you want the chrome moxen in (which you kind of do), I would suggest the following:
OUT
1 x gamble
1 x faithless looting
1 x lightning bolt

IN
3 x chrome mox

They give you coloured mana, provide another artifact to weld, and offer the explosive starts you want to drop a moon turn 1. Just an FYI, moon is AMAZING right now. Maverick is generally running 3 basics at most, RUG often runs 0... having a moon out turn 1 can be back-breaking. Even running it out turn 2 with blast back up is reasonable.

Against RUG, you basically want to play the "I win" cards. You cannot apply pressure, or play control, you need to play out every card as if it HAS to be countered. However, you only really have blood moon and the servant/grindstone combo as the "must counter" spells against them. Ensnaring bridge is also pretty good if you can board it. This is also where spellskite is great as it can take lightning bolt / forked bolt hits for your other guys (especially if you land a magus of the moon). Of course, you also have the sphinx plan... which is kind of cool, let me know how effective that is?

In the current meta I suggest moving away from Faithless Looting. With Dredge, RUG delver, and Sneak and Show everywhere, the card is to slow and random to win out. It is best when you have time and can grind out the card to give you maximum selection over an extended period of time. In my experience you do not have the ability to do so. Right now if you are committing mana and a card you need to know what value you are getting. That is why I recommend Enlightened Tutor.

My list

4 Imperial Recruiters
4 painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
3 SSG
3 Chrome Mox
7 Blast effects( mix and match anyway you like)
3 magus of the MOon
3 Blood Moon
3 SDT
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Figure of Destiny
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plateau
5 Mountains

Side
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Spinal Villian
1 Blast effect
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Koth
1 Goblin Welder

About the choices- The sideboard has been tuned to fight elves, Eldrazi in general, and Sneak and Show decks. The maindeck is actually really strong against Maverick, High Tide, Delver lists, Stone Blade and MUD lists. Dredge is favorable, and more so after siding, but you have to keep fast aggressive hands. Those are the decks I see in my area. The biggest issue being Sneak and Show decks.

So in the fight against Eldrazi you have a few things to do here. With elves and other ramp decks you just side out the Moon package, bring in the graveyard hate when on the draw everytime. Depending on the builds, and the type of ramp used, Moons are still strong on the play and instead just side out the Welders, Figure, and 3 blast effects if the Moons seem like they can work. Remember you want to always have white available bc they can still be fast and E tutor allows you to consistently get the three pieces you need for the combo in a timely fashion.

Sneak and SHow is another beast entirely. Some people may have had decent results with Moon here. It does serve as a slow down but it is really a bad lock. I would bring out the Moons, in the second game. That will give you 6 cards to bring in. Ensnaring Bridges( thanks Drew), Koths and Spinal Villian come in. Here is where you get a choice. Some would side out Grindstone as they should be bringing in Hydras that make the mill impossible to do anything but draw with. I think most of the better list should do this to increase threat density. What I would do is remove Figure and bring in Metamorph. The key should be to resolve Bridge and then a secondary win condition in the form of Koth or Jaya Ballard. The Spinal Villian is important bc with Jaya and Painter, they will need 3 creatures to attack if you were not able to land a bridge. I like to keep the mill package in for two reasons. One it serves as a fail safe if shit goes wrong and you may be able to constantly threaten a draw. Two it is important to see if they brought in the HYdra. If not, game three will see you bring in the Crypts in place of the Koth. That way you will know if you can try for the combo for the win. The Metamorph gives you many options and coupled with Welder you can really slow shit down.

Sneak and Show isn't easy, but it is beatable even though unfavorable. The good news is since it is the hot deck a bunch of bad players will be playing it so you can outplay them. With the current list I have found elves and other Eldrazi to not be a problem. The most recent GPT saw my play and beat 3 of these decks and the match ups weren't that close.

I will concede without Lightning Bolt the Rock matchup is worst, but that deck is poorly positioned right now and sometimes you need to pick your poison. I hope this helps and would be happy to elaborate more. Although I will say this my testing will be limited till the next big event since at my biweekly local Legacy event I play joke decks with cards like Baulduvian Horde and Juzam.

Seth

I wanted to add that my list is essentially 59cards. You can swap out that FoD for just about anything and you are correct on that choice. I just wanted another option for turning dudes sideways and it imprints as white for added value.

But I do want to stress again that right now I feel like Faithless Looting is not currently strong and I would be very hesitant in running it.

Seth

I borrowed this deck from a friend, then altered it some.

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/8645#118532

and won a small trial for GP Ghent.

Some previous poster said to consider cutting fateless looting, and I strongly disagree. Its a sweet way to speed up welder, search for pieces, and trade unwanted cards for gas.

The top 8 was full of control, even with counterbalance, yet this deck still performed quite well.

I was very happy with the 6 anti dredge/reanimator cards in my sideboard, and would probably not remove them. If anything, id try to find a spot for that last combo hate card.

Great job on the win. I was the previous poster hat said cut looting, but I did say if control was big in your meta then it was the right call. Clearly for what you played against it was the right call. Over here in the states I haven't seen that much control in a very long time. As such I still think with elves,sneak and show, dredge, and delver (which make up nearly 75 percent of the decks I play against anymore) that Faithless looting is too slow and Enlightened Tutor is he way to go.

In your dredge match did you mulligan to the Leyline? I would reLly be interested in a short report. How many people played in the event?