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"I think multiple Darkblast maindeck isn't a bad idea at all right now. There are tons of Hierarchs, Welders, Dryad Arbors, Moms, Cursecatchers, Lackeys, and other things out there right now."
That is correct, but I think that Dredge normally doesnt care THAT much about most of these. The one copy in the mainboard is perfectly fine but more, I'm not convinced right now.
That's totally right. One Darkblast is fine and cool. More are just "combo breaking".Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
@SB discussion: I won't play Dredge without 4 Claims and 4 Grudges.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
Now, what to carry against the mirror? is Leyline the best option? I can't but predict a rise of Dredges all over...
If a meta contains a lot of Dredge you can play the Leyline but I don't think that any meta has got a ton of Dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
(Dredge mirrors are pretty a coinflip.)
Maybe a 4/7 with all your creatures get +2/+2 and opp's creatures get -2/-2 can help here?
The best option now is a new deck ;) Seriously though, Dredge is best in an unprepared or underprepared meta. Between SCG's LA and Atl, people will be prepared now. Sucks because I just finished building the deck about a month ago when I saw that the meta was primed for a Dredge resurgence (grave hate went way down after Suvival's banning). Everybody had to go and spoil it before I really got a chance to play the deck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gui
(Mostly kidding, as it's mainly my Vintage deck, but I picked up all of the stuff for the Legacy version as well).
I wouldn't be so concerned. Even if people come up with more hate now, maybe Dredge won't have any top8s next time. After that, hate will go down again and you can crush them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomLotus
But anyway, as long as people don't change their basic attitude towards the Dredge archetype, I think you can easily crush any tournament in the world with Dredge if you pilot it well. After all, it's still a noob deck only played by noobs who fold to a single Crypt, right?
Let me know your paypal account, this deserves a donation. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Izor
So what specific matchup DR targets are there?
Blazing Archon-decks without removal
aura theif-enchantress
Realm razer-lands
ancestor's chose-burn type decks
llawan-merfolk
Anything else?
Ancestor's Chosen against all decks that try to race you by going Aggro as well as stuff like Burn Tendrils-based Storm combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssbm Rocks1
Terastodon/Woodfall Primus/Angel of Despair: Against decks with annoying permanents like Propaganda/Ghostly Prison, Humility, Solitary Confinement, Moat, Elephant Grass, Tabernacle, Glacial Chasm and all that stuff. Those decks are mainly Stax, Enchantress, Lands, Enlightened Control and others.
Other than that, you don't really need anything.
Realm Razer is more specific against Lands. There, it's more powerful that the options above, but in turn it doesn't do much against Stax, Enlightened Control and many other decks. Usually, I would stay with the other options, unless your metagame is really Lands-heavy.
Aura Thief hoses Enchantress. Now if you really think that it's necessary to pack a card that kills such a rare deck but does nothing against anything else, you might consider it.
Blazing Archon: I'd rather gain 35 life with Chosen in any situation. Chosen isn't susceptible to removal and it also prevents your opponent from finishing you off with Burn.
Llawan: It would just be dumb to play Llawan in Dredge, only because all other decks think they have to. Just Play Iona. She does the same thing, except that she also turns off their non-creature spells, namely their countermagic, and she's some hell of a beast as a 7/7 Flyer, as opposed to the mere 2/3 that Llawan provides. But Iona isn't really a specific matchup answer, you can just maindeck her.
Some people also play FKZ in the side as a faster win con against combo and as a good means to play around Tabernacle.
On this, you can play Realm Razer against High tide too, as second DR target together with Iona, because well, they kinda need the lands. Also, by blasting their lands at the right time, you can beat enchantress. I don't know if Terastodon is just better, or if Realm Razer is worth a try...Quote:
Originally Posted by Izor
Blazing Archon can be good against Emrakul-decks, since they usually try to race you and don't have removal. I myself play two DR targets in MD, Iona and FKZ and two in SB, Ancestor's Chosen and Terastodon / Woodfall Primus. I think that Realm Razer is too slow and narrow to do anything.
Hi guys. I'm currently finishing up completing my Dredge deck. This deck is like nothing else so it's hard for me to look at card options and see what is optimal and what is not. I'm just looking to find a starting to point to learn with and tweak a deck from there. I've seen what has been winning SCG Opens and it's quite different than the deck on the first page. I see it's pretty outdated, but is it viable? 2 cards I haven't seen in some of the more current decks being Eternal Witness and Undiscovered Paradise. Also should I start the deck with LED or without? I've seen lists that run the rainbow lands, and then others with just blue black. Any advice for a starting point would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Read Max McCall Article. This is the basic.
Personally, I'm disappointed with Iona; many decks pack MD answers to her (as a result of Emrakul) and others have the ability to partially play around her. Thinking about it a lot, the only decks that really autolose to Iona even game 2 right now are High Tide and Burn since they would not have deployed threats yet. Every other match up has a better answer in a different DR target, whether its Blazing Archon, Primus/Terrastrodon/Angel or Ancestor's Chosen.
Most Dredge decks no longer play LED since it provides some serious vulnerabilities. There is no such thing as an optimal Dredge list. The primer written by a number of us http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307947 is also good reading material in addition to Max's article (not trying to broadcast, but I think we did a good job describing the deck). This should give you a decent idea of how to build and pilot Dredge.
Be warned, Dredge is not an easy deck to pick up. You should practice it a lot to get comfortable (both against opponents and goldfishing). If you want to play Dredge, you really cannot give up on it if you feel frustrated when you are not doing well. Like any other deck, it takes time to learn Dredge.
EDIT: Accidental double post. My bad.
'Just finished 2nd @a local tourney. 4 rounds + top8 - won with a LED-Less list against Bitterstalker, Hatfield's GW Natural Order deck, Landfall Boros, I.D. against Caw Blade. Then I faced BG Pox with Pernicious Deed and Tombstalker, won against the same guy from round 2 and sadly lost against Caw Blade (due to Moat and Sword of Fire and Ice) in the finals. 4x Ancient Grudge + 4x Nature's Claim + 2x Ray of Revelation are mandatory, in my meta. I played a list with a 4x Breakthrough/3x Study split, with a 4th Study in my sb (I want to be as explosive as I can, hence the maindeck Iona and the split in favour of Breakthrough). I almost always sided out Breakthrough, except G3 against Landfall Boros where I switched 4 Study for it (because I knew my opponent played Relic of Progenitus, and I was on the play - 2nd turn Iona is always nice to have). Study is pretty good against Relic, because it avoids your opponent to empty your graveyard by EOT tapping to remove a card and next turn doing the same, since Study itself will be in the graveyard. As a side note, I played 4 rounds against decks packing Karakas, though I still don't find that land to be enough to remove Iona from the maindeck. Sometimes it feels like DR ===> Iona is winmore, but she solves too many problems and only eats a slot.
P.S. - I mean, if I expect Karakas I usually side out Iona, but most decks aren't playing it, that's why the angel is still in my 60.
New Phyrexia just gave Dredge players another headache: Surgical Extraction. This is basically Force of Will 5-8 against Dredge.
Not very scary. Somewhere between Extirpate and Faerie Macabre. Not even close to being a Force of Will, since it cant stop you from resolving a T1 discard outlet and screwing you, plus it will not be maindecked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dune Echo
It's also an instant speed answer to a number of strategies that doesn't require mana. Any deck can pick it up and not worry about the consequences against us and Breakfast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakkarr
So its extirpate without the single black cost and can be countered? Still not that scary. If people start bringing in this as their only GY hate rather than Relic/Crypt/Leyline, then I'd be Ok with that.
It does seem solid against High Tide, but not having split second makes it a bit awkward, Its a balance between being 'free' and being uncounterable (apart from a Counterbalance).