In goblin stompy your guys are usually 2 powerQuote:
Originally Posted by asjohnson
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In goblin stompy your guys are usually 2 powerQuote:
Originally Posted by asjohnson
I don't frequent this thread, but figured I would toss out my build I putt around with and occasionally let the significant other destroy decks locally with. I call it "Human Stompy" but really the is the only revolutionary concept of it.
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
8 [TE] Mountain (1)
// Creatures
1 [V11] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 [ISD] Instigator Gang/Wildblood Pack
1 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [FNM] Murderous Redcap
3 [MOR] Taurean Mauler
4 [NE] Moggcatcher
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
1 [ST] Goblin Settler
2 [M10] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
// Spells
3 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TSP] Sudden Shock
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SHM] Everlasting Torment
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [JGC] Imperial Recruiter
That makes sense. I can see winning it with Koth or seige gang with kiki. I guess I just have this vision of playing it out against show and tell to buy time, but then he is sitting there with a Griselbrand, which would shut down attacking with 2 power dudes. I suppose a stingscourger to bounce him as well. Its got options, I just wanted to make sure it was on the hand size management and not some cool trick I missed. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrospira
Looks good but I was never a fan of taurean mauler due to the decks #1 priority is to prevent the opponent from casting spells (and taurean mauler is good when your opponent casts lots). How are you finding sudden shock? I've cut my chrome mox down to 3 and added an extra mountain (Belcher has also cut down to 3 for consistency reasons). Are the one-ofs ever a problem? Currently I have stingscourger and tuktuk in my sb. Your sb also looks like it could use something vs sneak/show (ensnaring bridge, confusion in the ranks). Also..no blood moon!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Sudden shock means all the midrange decks and DNT fear me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
Mauler is there because of instigator gang, since the two of them both want opposite things from your opponent, so either way you're making out well.
Phyrexian Revokerx4 is there for sneaky Show. You just name Sneak Attack, and put in a Mogg Catcher off Show & Tell and they lose.
Ok cool. I've had success with 4 Ensnaring Bridge against many decks since your creatures can easily swing through it. Why no blood moon though? I've won countless games off turn 1/2 blood moon. The meta is perfect for this card right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
x4 cavern doesn't enable auto-moons. If you NEED blood moon g2, then sb imperial Recruiters. I don't agree that Moon wrecks the format atm, thus the x4 moon count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
Could you maindeck Imperial Recruiter in this deck? How do you feel about that (if someone has a playset of Recruiter sitting around and wants to build this deck).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Also, is there any chance we could see a mini-Primer on this deck and how the Moggcatcher plan works best vs the popular archetypes? I really like this deck *alot* and want to know the best way to play this when I finally build it.
Also, in a Stompy deck like this don't you think 20 Lands + SSG + Mox is a bit too much? I usually find the sweet spot in Tomb/City decks to be around 17-18 lands + 4 Mox. Were you getting mana-screwed alot with less land?
Back in the dragon stompy days I would play 19 lands 4 mox 4 ssg. Now I'm playing 20 lands 3 mox 4 ssg. Considering everything in the deck costs 3-4-5 I never want to be mana screwed. Casting siege-gang commander is common.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Imperial recruiter is too slow in my opinion. But if you really wanted you could play something like 2.
I suppose I could write something about moggcatcher but the original plan when I first built the deck was not to use toolbox creatures, just seal the game with siege-gangs. I've never been a fan of toolbox cards in a deck with no library manipulation but I understand why people like playing stuff like tuktuk scrapper main. But kikijiki and goblin settler? Please no. For reference you can see my original list and report here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post734754
I got the idea mainly from the Trinity Green decks from waaaaay back in the day. Or that weird GB deck with leyline of the void main because flash was legal. The plan was basically to get skyshroud poacher --> deranged hermit.
Keep in mind, my number one goal was to not autolose to planeswalkers. Jace and liliana were everywhere and dragon stompy wasn't cutting it anymore. A liliana or jace combined with a removal spell would make it almost impossible to come back from. Hound of griselbrand was there because liliana was everywhere as Jund just became a deck, don't think I'd play him now. I'ved replaced him with instigator gang. The sideboard was just thrown together but it didn't matter much...I held off souls tokens equipped with jitte and batterskull without artifact removal for a really long time and still almost won.
I'm still debating whether to keep the 3balls in the deck. I don't have much time to test, so I'm wondering what are your opinions on it.
Sometimes 3ball just feels like it could be another threat.
- It's terrific against all delver decks (RUG, BUG, UWR) and really kills anything trying to tempo you. Cast a creature? Cast bolt/swords? Keep mana open for counter? They can only do one of these per turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by wooboy11
- Amazing vs combo (ANT, TES, Elves, High Tide) and to a lesser extent show and tell/reanimator (stops counters, cantrips).
- Will mana screw people often since lots of decks play only 18-20 lands and only depend on ~2 in play.
- Protects your other spells from counters
3ball is another explosive start card that is a brick later in the game ... I mean any XXXX stompy deck suffers from the same glut of redundant cards and no Brainstorm to fix the problem. Dragon Stompy also contains 8 redundant moon effects, 8 potential grey ogres etc.. I think it's pretty obvious what the pro's and con's of 3ball are. You just have to decide to gamble on your match ups. I played Moon Stompy at Nashville and played against 2 decks that could give a fuck about blood moon (Sneak, and budget Veteran Explorer with like 8 forests and 4 swamps) and I got destroyed and dropped. If you pick this deck up for a $40 all day event you are gambling that you'll hit a bunch of delver decks, elves, lands, etc. You'll annihilate them (assuming you don't run garbage like Moggcatcher).
Or garbage like hero of oxid ridge, pit dragon, raiders, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Yeah I think Raiders and Pit Dragon are garbage, Hero has Haste and there are quite a few things with 1 power running around that you can run past ... he's fine. He's also a human for cavern purposes. Why you wouldn't play haste guys at this point is beyond me, who wants to be going into turn 5 or 6 with this deck casting shitty hill giants that can be Revoked.
Thanks for the replies, it's about on par with what I had in mind. It's basically a metagame / gameplay preference call.
I got the Catchers and the Hero's, will be testing both packages this weekend, since I was playing werewolves and wasn't so happy with the Miracles matchup (which I happen to come across a lot). I'm pretty much convinced Koth is needed on this deck, alongside Revokers. I'm also enjoying Stone Rain quite a lot. Has anyone tested Avarax? 5 cmc is what's keeping me from it.
Hardest part on building this deck is to assemble a good (or decent) threat package.
Do you have a list? I'm interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
I always have these issues in mind when building moon/chalice stompy:
1. How do your creatures do vs Goyf, Batterskull, Jitte?
2. Can you win if your lock pieces aren't effective?
3. Do my creatures suck if I draw them late? (see: taurean mauler)
4. Can I draw something to get out of situation X?
5. Do Liliana and Jace negate all your creatures (which is why I assume you like hasty things)
6. Do I autolose in the late game? (see: rakdos pit dragon, gathan raiders)
While moggcatcher is a turn slower since it doesn't attack, it almost guarantees that you'll win the game if it's not answered immediately. With a normal beater however, if it's answered after a couple swings you're back to where you started. SGC can also be used as removal and to prevent lifegain from bskull or counters on jitte.
So the creatures I came up with in the attempt to answer all these issues were: moggcatcher, SGC, rakka mar, hound of griselbrand.
I think @ 5 there's Stormbreath Dragon and everything else, can't be Swords, Bolted, Decayed, Evades and eats Planeswlkers for breakfast. Arc Slogger or maybe the aforementioned SGC just worse. If you are running a moon deck with Seething Song then I definitely think SBD is the weapon of choice at 5, as he also turns a mid game Seething Song glut into damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by wooboy11
Absolutely agree, although in my country it sits at a hefty 60 bucks. Will wait until it rotates out or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Is hasty creatures only there to attack the planeswalkers? If so, doesn't Revoker remedy that?
I've seen your list through your report, and really liked it. I just don't think Purphoros does any work.
So I tried out Moggcatcher and Hero today. Gotta say, I loved Moggcatcher, and I didn't quite like Hero. The deck becomes more controlish with Moggcatcher, but it just works well under a chalice @1 (doesn't even need to be turn1). Hero, on the other hand, is awesome against creature light decks, but those decks are usually the ones our hate impacts the most.
Keep in mind I played them both on the same deck and without 3balls (was on SB), so maybe that was the problem. What I REALLY missed, though, was a decent 3 drop threat. I am desperately thinking about Splatter Thug. Has anyone tried him? Slow, can't block, but hey.. better than a 1/5 defender that only flips when you already won with your locks. Also, I'm not using Seething Songs, could that be the source of this issue?
That's the problem I'm running into as well. I've done a ton of searches, and I've come up with a few options, all of which seem sub-par to me but here they are anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by wooboy11
Splatter Thug is ok, being human is nice but not blocking or doing anything the turn it drops is meh
Goblin Assault wins quickly, but again provides no blockers and is useless the turn it comes down. It is largely removal-proof, though
Hammer of Purphoros also wins on its own, but requires you to constantly feed it lands and mana. The global haste is very nice
Grafted Wargear is the last one. It doesn't win on its own, but putting it on pretty much anything wins fast. Especially if that thing flies
On another note, I'm increasingly drawn to Moltensteel Dragon. Flying is good, firebreathing is good, and also being able to feed it your own lives is amazing (plus, the art rocks). An unanswered MsD could end a game in two swings. It's definitely something I'll be testing