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it gives you a way to find NO, mass removal, artifact removal, ...
Possibilities are endless. the mana acceleration in the deck is from that order that you can often get a burning wish + NO from turn 5 cast in the same turn. And I mean consistently with survival. (if you fetch rofellos off course). It could even get you a hasty progenitus.
It really makes me wonder - if BW is so good why next to none of the tournemant winning decks run it :D?
From my testing, I have come to realize that a couple decks roll over survival 50% or more. My list goes by this in no particular order:
Bant
Gobos
Dragon Stompy
Eva Green
Storm Combo
I'm working on some things that will hopefully make our matchup stronger against these decks without sacrificing our matchups against other decks.
Wait, you really think dragon stompy is a tough match? You sir, are doing it wrong.
Bant and eva green are also positive matches.
Unless you're playing wish, then Dragon stompy is a 50/50 matchup. It really depends on who goes first and if you can get birds online. They can lock you out with first turn chalice or moon with the accomplice of trinisphere. Chalice at 1 and moon will spell gg unless you MD wickerbough and/or flametongue. Don't tell me I don't know how to play Survival, I've been playing it extensively for 4 years. My testing partner specializes in Dragon stompy and I can attest that without wish, it is a 50/50 matchup. I've played this matchup over 30 times.
Eva green has proved to be incredibly difficult. Mana denial + hand disruption is killer. Early hand disruption against survival is killer period. I have played it in two matches and it's beaten me both times. I can't say that this is a bad matchup for sure, but from what I've seen in my testing, it's blown survival out of the water.
Bant is very tough. Their biggest hard cast creature is usually bigger than yours (their exalted goyf> your goyf). sitting around warrants a progenitus.
BTW, no one plays burning wish because of Counter/top. Simple as that.
What does chalice at 1 do against you? The fact is that you have too many basics for their moon effects to do much. Bant is just like counter top, only slightly more aggressive, and countertop are the decks that this deck is designed to prey on. I have played agaist some of the best Eva green players there are, including the people who created the deck, and I have lost just once.
I'm not here to get into a pissing contest with you, or be a dick, but if you are losing to dragon stompy on a regular basis, you are playing the deck wrong.
chalice at 1 shuts down swords, birds, discard, top (if your playing them). This can be played around. But, if they draw a trinisphere, then your out for 3 turns allowing them to do whatever they want. A moon effect with chalice at 1 usually means GG. What are you going to fetch with when you get survival? A bunch of 2/3 goyfs that you'll be able to play every other turn because you don't have enough green? Dragon stompy is hard because it finishes you fast before you find a solution. Stax is slow so survival is able to play around it. Stax and other stompy decks can't lock your mana down either. If you have flametongue or wickerbough in deck, you might be able to win in these tough situations. I'm currently testing 1 plains MD in my deck to see how effective it will be. You keep telling me that survival beats DS easily, yet you have made no arguments or shown any examples besides just stating that I am playing the deck wrong. I am saying the matchup is not terrible, but that it's near 50% or worse.
Bant is tough because survival has a hard time dealing with progenitus when there are a bunch of creatures on the opposing side. I admit that survival should beat cb/top decks but Progenitus is much harder to deal with than any threats that normal CB/top decks have.
If survival has so many strong matchups as you make it seem, then tell me why it isn't play more? It's not like goblins is running rampant. Survival doesn't roll over to zoo, merfolk, or landstill (DTB).
Don't forget Sickening dreams. It's some good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I personally don't even play white, I don't find it that useful. I also play burning wish, along with 6 basic forests. I still don't understand how white can make the match that bad, but I guess with one less color to deal with, it can be a lot easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryboi
Just a new thought on survival including a lock....
4 Verdant Marsh
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Victimize
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Eternal Witness
3 Bloodghast
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
1 Shriekmaw
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Painters Servant
Victimize -> Iona + Painters Servant make for a pretty hard lock
One could maybe change Painters Servant into Blazing Archon against Aggro decks.....
Bloodghast helps to recover faster and apply pressure after a Deed.
No thoughts on SB yet.....
Any input would be appreciated :)
That seems like a cute lock, but that is so far into the cool things category that I can't really see it being that good. If you have an active survival, you should be winning anyway, and those cards are dead draws on their own.
Well, you most of the times you should win with a survival out, but with Iona + Painter you could cement equal or slightly positive board position and take over the game from there on, or Iona + Archon could bring you back against decks not packing burn.
How are you going to get those creatures into play without an actice survival?
Well that's the problem, but I think it's at least worth testing out if you want to dedicate 2 slots to this possible lock.
I'm gonna test this for a while and then report back.
My point is, if you have an active survival, which you need for this combo to work, the only deck this combo helps against is storm. And this is way too slow to hit play before they kill you.
Do you have time for a little MWS testing?
PM'd you.
I know that this is a long shot, but does anyone see entomb breaking survival? Does that card have a place in this deck? About victimize, why not just play recurring nightmare? Am I missing something?
Three mana and a creature is cheaper than six mana and two creatures?Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryboi
Duh. Hahaha wasn't thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH